Endorsement of Heaps or Indictment of Munns and Lark?

OL and FB better protect Heaps better than they protected Nelson and Heaps vs AFA and FSU or we may get a look at Lark or Munns much sooner than we would hope. If it were not for the 2 QB rotation, either a totaly inexperienced Heaps would have been thrown in at FSU to replace an injured Nelson, if not sooner, or Heaps would have gone down and Nelson, nursing a non-cntact injury from Fall camp, would have been relieving an injured Heaps, and by now have aggravated thzat injury giving way to an inexperienced Lark. Keep Heaps healthy. TCU and Utah have the athletes to pin back their ears and send everybody after an inexperienced QB. Hopefully Heaps survives TCU, enjoys a 4 week vacation against teams we can beat, and is ready for Utah.

frdbtr wrote:
I figured it would be easier on you all if I answered my own question, here are the leading recievers in 2002 and 2003



2002:

PASSING GP Effic Att-Cmp-Int Pct Yds TD Lng Avg/G

ENGEMANN, Bret 8 109.24 215-119-8 55.3 1334 6 50 166.8

BERRY, Matt 8 121.23 184-108-9 58.7 1309 7 47 163.6

PENDLETON, Lance 10 97.58 75-39-2 52.0 376 2 26 37.6





RECEIVING GP No. Yds Avg TD Long Avg/G

MAHE, Reno 12 59 771 13.1 2 46 64.2

NEAD, Spencer 12 40 449 11.2 1 29 37.4

CHRISTENSEN, Toby 12 30 346 11.5 2 40 28.8

WILKERSON, Rod 11 27 371 13.7 1 47 33.7

WHALEN, Marcus 11 27 203 7.5 0 20 18.5

ORD, Andrew 11 21 246 11.7 2 29 22.4

REID, Gabriel 11 18 192 10.7 5 27 17.5

BROWN, Curtis 12 15 114 7.6 0 45 9.5

CHRISTENSEN, David 8 11 117 10.6 1 50 14.6

ANDERSON, Justin 10 11 113 10.3 0 22 11.3

KUKAHIKO, Jason 11 9 131 14.6 2 37 11.9

AIONO, Aisaac 9 3 33 11.0 0 13 3.7

WILSON, Kyle 11 2 22 11.0 0 14 2.0

BEVERLEY, Kish 7 2 9 4.5 0 5 1.3

DEANS, Logan 11 1 11 11.0 0 11 1.0

PAYNE, Matt 12 1 1 1.0 0 1 0





2003:



PASSING GP Effic Att-Cmp-Int Pct Yds TD Lng Avg/G

BERRY, Matt 8 112.12 235-147-14 62.6 1445 7 46 180.6

BECK, John 8 104.88 145-73-5 50.3 864 5 56 108.0





RECEIVING GP No. Yds Avg TD Long Avg/G

CHRISTENSEN, Toby 12 53 547 10.3 4 44 45.6

HALE, Chris 11 33 286 8.7 0 29 26.0

COATS, Daniel 10 30 378 12.6 4 38 37.8

WILKERSON, Rod 11 21 274 13.0 0 56 24.9

BRATHWAITE, Reynaldo 10 19 100 5.3 0 20 10.0

JORY, Justin 9 17 213 12.5 1 46 23.7

TAHI, Naufahu 12 14 144 10.3 2 35 12.0

KUKAHIKO, Jason 7 11 139 12.6 0 26 19.9

CHRISTENSEN, David 7 11 115 10.5 0 26 16.4

NIU, Phillip 7 8 152 19.0 2 29 21.7

WHALEN, Marcus 9 7 44 6.3 0 12 4.9

VAKAPUNA, Tafui 8 6 29 4.8 0 11 3.6

SLATER, Ryan 3 5 67 13.4 0 22 22.3

COOPER, Brett 11 4 38 9.5 0 12 3.5

STANCIL, Thomas 6 2 8 4.0 0 4 1.3

BERRY, Matt 8 1 19 19.0 0 19 2.4

WILSON, Kyle 10 1 16 16.0 0 16 1.6

HANSEN, Marc 5 1 8 8.0 0 8 1.6

AIONO, Aisaac 7 1 3 3.0 0 3 0.4

Total 12 245 2580 10.5 13 56 215.0

Opponents 12 168 2096 12.5 13 70 174.





I don't know about you guys, but I don't think I would trade our current crop of recievers for the ones in 2002 and 2003, drops and all. Even though I wouldn't mind Reno Mahe back on the team, that guy was tough as nails.



Now, flame away.

I would take Coats, Whalen, Fahu Tahi, Fui Vakapuna over anybody we have this year contributing. Maybe that's just me, though...

BlueIsBetter wrote:

I figured it would be easier on you all if I answered my own question, here are the leading recievers in 2002 and 2003



2002:

PASSING GP Effic Att-Cmp-Int Pct Yds TD Lng Avg/G

ENGEMANN, Bret 8 109.24 215-119-8 55.3 1334 6 50 166.8

BERRY, Matt 8 121.23 184-108-9 58.7 1309 7 47 163.6

PENDLETON, Lance 10 97.58 75-39-2 52.0 376 2 26 37.6





RECEIVING GP No. Yds Avg TD Long Avg/G

MAHE, Reno 12 59 771 13.1 2 46 64.2

NEAD, Spencer 12 40 449 11.2 1 29 37.4

CHRISTENSEN, Toby 12 30 346 11.5 2 40 28.8

WILKERSON, Rod 11 27 371 13.7 1 47 33.7

WHALEN, Marcus 11 27 203 7.5 0 20 18.5

ORD, Andrew 11 21 246 11.7 2 29 22.4

REID, Gabriel 11 18 192 10.7 5 27 17.5

BROWN, Curtis 12 15 114 7.6 0 45 9.5

CHRISTENSEN, David 8 11 117 10.6 1 50 14.6

ANDERSON, Justin 10 11 113 10.3 0 22 11.3

KUKAHIKO, Jason 11 9 131 14.6 2 37 11.9

AIONO, Aisaac 9 3 33 11.0 0 13 3.7

WILSON, Kyle 11 2 22 11.0 0 14 2.0

BEVERLEY, Kish 7 2 9 4.5 0 5 1.3

DEANS, Logan 11 1 11 11.0 0 11 1.0

PAYNE, Matt 12 1 1 1.0 0 1 0





2003:



PASSING GP Effic Att-Cmp-Int Pct Yds TD Lng Avg/G

BERRY, Matt 8 112.12 235-147-14 62.6 1445 7 46 180.6

BECK, John 8 104.88 145-73-5 50.3 864 5 56 108.0





RECEIVING GP No. Yds Avg TD Long Avg/G

CHRISTENSEN, Toby 12 53 547 10.3 4 44 45.6

HALE, Chris 11 33 286 8.7 0 29 26.0

COATS, Daniel 10 30 378 12.6 4 38 37.8

WILKERSON, Rod 11 21 274 13.0 0 56 24.9

BRATHWAITE, Reynaldo 10 19 100 5.3 0 20 10.0

JORY, Justin 9 17 213 12.5 1 46 23.7

TAHI, Naufahu 12 14 144 10.3 2 35 12.0

KUKAHIKO, Jason 7 11 139 12.6 0 26 19.9

CHRISTENSEN, David 7 11 115 10.5 0 26 16.4

NIU, Phillip 7 8 152 19.0 2 29 21.7

WHALEN, Marcus 9 7 44 6.3 0 12 4.9

VAKAPUNA, Tafui 8 6 29 4.8 0 11 3.6

SLATER, Ryan 3 5 67 13.4 0 22 22.3

COOPER, Brett 11 4 38 9.5 0 12 3.5

STANCIL, Thomas 6 2 8 4.0 0 4 1.3

BERRY, Matt 8 1 19 19.0 0 19 2.4

WILSON, Kyle 10 1 16 16.0 0 16 1.6

HANSEN, Marc 5 1 8 8.0 0 8 1.6

AIONO, Aisaac 7 1 3 3.0 0 3 0.4

Total 12 245 2580 10.5 13 56 215.0

Opponents 12 168 2096 12.5 13 70 174.





I don't know about you guys, but I don't think I would trade our current crop of recievers for the ones in 2002 and 2003, drops and all. Even though I wouldn't mind Reno Mahe back on the team, that guy was tough as nails.



Now, flame away.

I would take Coats, Whalen, Fahu Tahi, Fui Vakapuna over anybody we have this year contributing. Maybe that's just me, though...

Coats would be an upgrade at tight end but he wasn't really playing all that well that year (after Berry got hurt). Fui was an under used freshman then and Tahi was still working out his mission legs so frankly I think our current group of RB's is better then that. Plus my point was recievers and you want to trade a TE and a couple full backs, which I don't think our fullbacks are a weakness this year. My point was, for the recievers. Take a look at BYU's recievers and tell my you would trade them for who we have this year. The only one I would think would be an upgrade from the 2002-03 teams would be Reno Mahe. Oh, one more point, whalen for JJ or Quezada....No thanks.

frdbtr wrote:
Coats would be an upgrade at tight end but he wasn't really playing all that well that year (after Berry got hurt). Fui was an under used freshman then and Tahi was still working out his mission legs so frankly I think our current group of RB's is better then that. Plus my point was recievers and you want to trade a TE and a couple full backs, which I don't think our fullbacks are a weakness this year. My point was, for the recievers. Take a look at BYU's recievers and tell my you would trade them for who we have this year. The only one I would think would be an upgrade from the 2002-03 teams would be Reno Mahe. Oh, one more point, whalen for JJ or Quezada....No thanks.

I would trade Mahe for this years entire receiving corps in a heartbeat.

blue42 wrote:

Coats would be an upgrade at tight end but he wasn't really playing all that well that year (after Berry got hurt). Fui was an under used freshman then and Tahi was still working out his mission legs so frankly I think our current group of RB's is better then that. Plus my point was recievers and you want to trade a TE and a couple full backs, which I don't think our fullbacks are a weakness this year. My point was, for the recievers. Take a look at BYU's recievers and tell my you would trade them for who we have this year. The only one I would think would be an upgrade from the 2002-03 teams would be Reno Mahe. Oh, one more point, whalen for JJ or Quezada....No thanks.

I would trade Mahe for this years entire receiving corps in a heartbeat.

Ok, so now you have reno Mahe as our lone reciever, when the defense double teams him and puts all the safeties in the box to stop the run, who do we go to?

frdbtr wrote:

frdbtr wrote:
Coats would be an upgrade at tight end but he wasn't really playing all that well that year (after Berry got hurt). Fui was an under used freshman then and Tahi was still working out his mission legs so frankly I think our current group of RB's is better then that. Plus my point was recievers and you want to trade a TE and a couple full backs, which I don't think our fullbacks are a weakness this year. My point was, for the recievers. Take a look at BYU's recievers and tell my you would trade them for who we have this year. The only one I would think would be an upgrade from the 2002-03 teams would be Reno Mahe. Oh, one more point, whalen for JJ or Quezada....No thanks.

I would trade Mahe for this years entire receiving corps in a heartbeat.

Ok, so now you have reno Mahe as our lone reciever, when the defense double teams him and puts all the safeties in the box to stop the run, who do we go to?

well a whole stable of receivers certainly hasn't done any better this year. I guess I will have to start calling you Mr. literal if you thought only Mahe would be out there, but come to think about it I think Mahe a bunch of cheerleaders and Cosmo could do as well as this year.

blue42 wrote:

blue42 wrote:

Coats would be an upgrade at tight end but he wasn't really playing all that well that year (after Berry got hurt). Fui was an under used freshman then and Tahi was still working out his mission legs so frankly I think our current group of RB's is better then that. Plus my point was recievers and you want to trade a TE and a couple full backs, which I don't think our fullbacks are a weakness this year. My point was, for the recievers. Take a look at BYU's recievers and tell my you would trade them for who we have this year. The only one I would think would be an upgrade from the 2002-03 teams would be Reno Mahe. Oh, one more point, whalen for JJ or Quezada....No thanks.

I would trade Mahe for this years entire receiving corps in a heartbeat.

Ok, so now you have reno Mahe as our lone reciever, when the defense double teams him and puts all the safeties in the box to stop the run, who do we go to?

well a whole stable of receivers certainly hasn't done any better this year. I guess I will have to start calling you Mr. literal if you thought only Mahe would be out there, but come to think about it I think Mahe a bunch of cheerleaders and Cosmo could do as well as this year.

My point wasn't that one of the recievers from the 2002 team would be better then one of our current recievers. It was that the entire recieving corps was not as good as todays and I still believe that. Reno Mahe was probably better then our best but then you have to take into account who else we had then, Wilkerson!?, Toby Christiensen?! Even with the drops, I wouldn't trade Hoffman and Chambers for them. We have more size and speed at the reciever position then I can remember. The drops are going to go away eventually. I still believe that the drops are a combination of poor timing between QB and reciever and will be ironed out.

This whole thread is hilarious. Many of you are giving Heaps backhanded compliments and couching them in "I just think he needs to improve". Wow.



Heaps needs a ton of improvement. Every single true freshman at every school, at every position needs to improve. Heaps is still struggling with his short touch passes and he still throws behind receivers. Given that he has played 6 games total at the college level is shocking to me that he is still struggling with that. :evil: His pocket presence gets better every game.



Nelson was great against UW but UW's D sucked. Horribly. Nelson is a fighter and I want him on the field. He will help us. But he will never be as good as Heaps can be.



Our receivers haven't done anything to help our QB's. They looked better against SDSU, but still not good enough to say they are doing remotely well.



Anyone who watches football, and is honest with themselves, has to say that for a true freshman, Heaps looks amazing. It tells me that the future is very bright given how much he has improved since his first game. Compare Heaps right now to Detmer, McMahon, Bosco, Young, Sark, Beck, Max, etc. at the end of their careers and he looks pretty poor. Perspective is what most of you need. You seem to have none.

People need to realize that Heaps is far behind where he would be now had the coaches not bungled the QB indecision. If stubborn Anae had given up the notion that Riley could be the guy, even in a 2-QB system, thus giving Heaps a full fall camp to get ready, then he would be far ahead of where he is now.



Don't underestimate the value of 50-60 hour weeks in fall camp with all the reps and the opporrunity for the offense gel. As it is, we basically hit the reset button on offense right around the FSU game, but it wasn't possible to have a full reset with a full fall camp. Nobody can know how our record would be different if Jake was rightly given a full chance starting out the gate, but I don't think we would have lost to USU, at least.



We are still a couple weeks away from where Jake should be ready for WEEK 1 of the regular season. I don't foresee him being really ready to go until, at the earliest, the last 2 weeks of the season.

byutx wrote:
People need to realize that Heaps is far behind where he would be now had the coaches not bungled the QB indecision. If stubborn Anae had given up the notion that Riley could be the guy, even in a 2-QB system, thus giving Heaps a full fall camp to get ready, then he would be far ahead of where he is now.



Don't underestimate the value of 50-60 hour weeks in fall camp with all the reps and the opporrunity for the offense gel. As it is, we basically hit the reset button on offense right around the FSU game, but it wasn't possible to have a full reset with a full fall camp. Nobody can know how our record would be different if Jake was rightly given a full chance starting out the gate, but I don't think we would have lost to USU, at least.



We are still a couple weeks away from where Jake should be ready for WEEK 1 of the regular season. I don't foresee him being really ready to go until, at the earliest, the last 2 weeks of the season.

I will become less willing to give him a pass on the whole "he didn't get enough reps in fall camp" if he doesn't carve up the dregs of the MWC with his passing. Like I posted in an earlier post in this thread. Matt Berry joined fall camp right after his mission, took over as starting qb half way through the year and had a 121 PER in 2002 with IMO the smallest and slowest recievers BYU has ever had. If Jake Heaps struggles against teams like UNLV, I am going to have a hard time giving him a pass anymore.

frdbtr wrote:

People need to realize that Heaps is far behind where he would be now had the coaches not bungled the QB indecision. If stubborn Anae had given up the notion that Riley could be the guy, even in a 2-QB system, thus giving Heaps a full fall camp to get ready, then he would be far ahead of where he is now.



Don't underestimate the value of 50-60 hour weeks in fall camp with all the reps and the opporrunity for the offense gel. As it is, we basically hit the reset button on offense right around the FSU game, but it wasn't possible to have a full reset with a full fall camp. Nobody can know how our record would be different if Jake was rightly given a full chance starting out the gate, but I don't think we would have lost to USU, at least.



We are still a couple weeks away from where Jake should be ready for WEEK 1 of the regular season. I don't foresee him being really ready to go until, at the earliest, the last 2 weeks of the season.

I will become less willing to give him a pass on the whole "he didn't get enough reps in fall camp" if he doesn't carve up the dregs of the MWC with his passing. Like I posted in an earlier post in this thread. Matt Berry joined fall camp right after his mission, took over as starting qb half way through the year and had a 121 PER in 2002 with IMO the smallest and slowest recievers BYU has ever had. If Jake Heaps struggles against teams like UNLV, I am going to have a hard time giving him a pass anymore.

Did these smaller, slower receivers drop as many passes as our receivers?

Was Matt Berry barely 19 years old in the middle of a crap storm of unprecedented coaching debacles?

Cherry picking variables is really lame.

Matt Marshall has a better PER this season, so should he be the guy right now?

byutx wrote:

byutx wrote:
People need to realize that Heaps is far behind where he would be now had the coaches not bungled the QB indecision. If stubborn Anae had given up the notion that Riley could be the guy, even in a 2-QB system, thus giving Heaps a full fall camp to get ready, then he would be far ahead of where he is now.



Don't underestimate the value of 50-60 hour weeks in fall camp with all the reps and the opporrunity for the offense gel. As it is, we basically hit the reset button on offense right around the FSU game, but it wasn't possible to have a full reset with a full fall camp. Nobody can know how our record would be different if Jake was rightly given a full chance starting out the gate, but I don't think we would have lost to USU, at least.



We are still a couple weeks away from where Jake should be ready for WEEK 1 of the regular season. I don't foresee him being really ready to go until, at the earliest, the last 2 weeks of the season.

I will become less willing to give him a pass on the whole "he didn't get enough reps in fall camp" if he doesn't carve up the dregs of the MWC with his passing. Like I posted in an earlier post in this thread. Matt Berry joined fall camp right after his mission, took over as starting qb half way through the year and had a 121 PER in 2002 with IMO the smallest and slowest recievers BYU has ever had. If Jake Heaps struggles against teams like UNLV, I am going to have a hard time giving him a pass anymore.

Did these smaller, slower receivers drop as many passes as our receivers?

Was Matt Berry barely 19 years old in the middle of a crap storm of unprecedented coaching debacles?

Cherry picking variables is really lame.

Matt Marshall has a better PER this season, so should he be the guy right now?

Let me think.....Crowton vs Bronco. Hmmmm. I would think that 2002 and 2003 are looked at as the worst coaching years in recent BYU history so I would think that this year Heaps is in a better situation, coaching wise, then Berry. I don't know off the top of my head how many balls were dropped by Berry's recievers but if you look at the talent pool, once again, Heaps has the upper hand there. If Heaps can't get it done against NM, CSU, UNLV, and Wyoming, then IMO he is not the answer at QB. You can blame the recievers and coaching all you want but the bottom line is these same recievers didn't have trouble holding onto the ball when it was being thrown by Max hall last year. And all of you all that are telling me that I can't compare Heaps to Max Hall because Max Hall is now in the NFL are proving my point for me.

BYUTX



If Heaps had started week 1 after being declared the guy after Spring Camp, imho, we would still be looking for our first win, Heaps would have been injured in week 2 or 3, Nelson would probably also be injured by now, and Lark would be coming up to speed. Heaps would have been a sitting duck, even in week 1. Our inexperienced QBs do not have the supportinng cast to succeed, and Nelson was the best positioned (at th etime) to succeed until he got injured. The OTJ (On The Job) experience Heaps is getting now is something you cannot get in camp, and is why true freshmen rarely start and when they do, they usually have a supporting cast that makes it possible (like BYU could have done if they had Manase or FUI lining up with Harvey as seniors with Pitta and George, and our experienced OL, with our center returning from last year. Even if the receivers stunk, our inexperienced QBs could have survived in that kind of scenario - even a true freshman.



The OTJ experience will eventually slow the game down for Heaps.



I am so weary of hearing about how Nelson can't make the throws and Heaps can or that Nelson can't throw beyond 10 yards. Take a look at Heaps YPC, even after having full rein for three games after having half rein for 3 more. Nelson never got full rein for 1 game, and still has personally scored (run or thrown for) more TDs than Jake has. So in half of UW, 3/4 of AFA, and 1/4 of FSU, an injured Nelson threw more TD passes than Jake has thrown in the equivalent of 4+ full games. This is true even though Heaps has thrown more interceptions.



Game experience is what slows the Div I game down for a QB. Heaps is getting game experience. He is getting it faster than he has been able to handle it so far. it is unfortunate that he could not have been given more time to ease into it and / or a better supporting cast. Heaps is our guy - and I agree with the earlier poster - if Heaps cannot dominate New Mexico, Wyoming, UNLV, and Colorado State, after 4 starts against better opponents, 3/4 of the FSU game, 1/4 of the AFA game, and half of the UW game - the honeymoon is over.



The honeymoon lasts through this Saturday because TCU would likley hammer any of our 5 QBs tomorrow - due to lack of supporting cast combined with inexperience and the fact that TCU is deservedly a Top 5 team.



I just HOPE HEAPS gets solid enough protection to remain healthy Saturday so that he is well positioned for the 4 games after Saturday. That SOS should make our entire team and coaching staff look like suddenly they have rediscovered their brains, speed, hands, and arms.



Go Cougs

Just admit that you are either Riley Nelson, a family member, or close friend already. Seriously.



To say if a guy is not awesome as a true freshman means he can't do it is totally asinine.

Lawboy wrote:
Just admit that you are either Riley Nelson, a family member, or close friend already. Seriously.



To say if a guy is not awesome as a true freshman means he can't do it is totally asinine.

It's pretty lame, in my opinion, to consider anyone who doesn't jump on the Nelson sucks bandwagon as a friend, family member, or Riley himself.

hawkwing wrote:

Just admit that you are either Riley Nelson, a family member, or close friend already. Seriously.



To say if a guy is not awesome as a true freshman means he can't do it is totally asinine.

It's pretty lame, in my opinion, to consider anyone who doesn't jump on the Nelson sucks bandwagon as a friend, family member, or Riley himself.

Mabye, but seriously, listen to what he is saying. A fair amount of it is borderline irrational. I think that is what he is getting at.

Lawboy wrote:
Just admit that you are either Riley Nelson, a family member, or close friend already. Seriously.



To say if a guy is not awesome as a true freshman means he can't do it is totally asinine.

:lol: Awesome! I am not expecting awesome, I am expecting servicable and he hasn't even been that. Blame it on recievers, blame it on coaching, blame it on whatever you want but the guy is in the top 10 for worst PER in the history of BYU football. A guy with a broken hand had a better PER then him with worse recievers. The #1 QB recruit in the country should never throw 3 feet above the head of a fullback that is 10 yards away from him who only has to back into the end zone for a TD. The #1 QB recruit in the country shoudl be able to complete a screen pass. The #1 QB in the country needs to not loft the ball up in the air on a pass where the only guy in the area is a safety on the other team that just has to wait for the ball to land in his hands. I still think Jake is the future but I want to see him start to lead this team. If he can't get it done against the crap at the bottom of the MWC, then IMO, he can't get it done.

Cougarbib2 wrote:
BYUTX



If Heaps had started week 1 after being declared the guy after Spring Camp, imho, we would still be looking for our first win, Heaps would have been injured in week 2 or 3, Nelson would probably also be injured by now, and Lark would be coming up to speed. Heaps would have been a sitting duck, even in week 1. Our inexperienced QBs do not have the supportinng cast to succeed, and Nelson was the best positioned (at th etime) to succeed until he got injured. The OTJ (On The Job) experience Heaps is getting now is something you cannot get in camp, and is why true freshmen rarely start and when they do, they usually have a supporting cast that makes it possible (like BYU could have done if they had Manase or FUI lining up with Harvey as seniors with Pitta and George, and our experienced OL, with our center returning from last year. Even if the receivers stunk, our inexperienced QBs could have survived in that kind of scenario - even a true freshman.



The OTJ experience will eventually slow the game down for Heaps.



I am so weary of hearing about how Nelson can't make the throws and Heaps can or that Nelson can't throw beyond 10 yards. Take a look at Heaps YPC, even after having full rein for three games after having half rein for 3 more. Nelson never got full rein for 1 game, and still has personally scored (run or thrown for) more TDs than Jake has. So in half of UW, 3/4 of AFA, and 1/4 of FSU, an injured Nelson threw more TD passes than Jake has thrown in the equivalent of 4+ full games. This is true even though Heaps has thrown more interceptions.



Game experience is what slows the Div I game down for a QB. Heaps is getting game experience. He is getting it faster than he has been able to handle it so far. it is unfortunate that he could not have been given more time to ease into it and / or a better supporting cast. Heaps is our guy - and I agree with the earlier poster - if Heaps cannot dominate New Mexico, Wyoming, UNLV, and Colorado State, after 4 starts against better opponents, 3/4 of the FSU game, 1/4 of the AFA game, and half of the UW game - the honeymoon is over.



The honeymoon lasts through this Saturday because TCU would likley hammer any of our 5 QBs tomorrow - due to lack of supporting cast combined with inexperience and the fact that TCU is deservedly a Top 5 team.



I just HOPE HEAPS gets solid enough protection to remain healthy Saturday so that he is well positioned for the 4 games after Saturday. That SOS should make our entire team and coaching staff look like suddenly they have rediscovered their brains, speed, hands, and arms.



Go Cougs

Didn't read your whole post, just the first sentence. If a Heaps-led team can beat SDSU, then a Heaps-led team would have beaten UW a team that is much worse. We also wouldn't have lost to USU.

frdbtr wrote:

Just admit that you are either Riley Nelson, a family member, or close friend already. Seriously.



To say if a guy is not awesome as a true freshman means he can't do it is totally asinine.

:lol: Awesome! I am not expecting awesome, I am expecting servicable and he hasn't even been that. Blame it on recievers, blame it on coaching, blame it on whatever you want but the guy is in the top 10 for worst PER in the history of BYU football. A guy with a broken hand had a better PER then him with worse recievers. The #1 QB recruit in the country should never throw 3 feet above the head of a fullback that is 10 yards away from him who only has to back into the end zone for a TD. The #1 QB recruit in the country shoudl be able to complete a screen pass. The #1 QB in the country needs to not loft the ball up in the air on a pass where the only guy in the area is a safety on the other team that just has to wait for the ball to land in his hands. I still think Jake is the future but I want to see him start to lead this team. If he can't get it done against the crap at the bottom of the MWC, then IMO, he can't get it done.

I hate to even comment on this thread, but I don't see what is so irrational about frdbtr's posts. ??? Everyone was calling for Nelson's head on a platter when he was playing (and doing as well at least as well as Heaps) but no one wants to hold Heaps even a little bit responsible. I'm not going to call for anyone to sit I think both QBs have done as well as they could and that this WHOLE OFFENSE has performed as unto a pile of horse manure. I just find it s a little hypocritical for it to be fine for everyone to blame Nelson for our offense and at the same time require all the patience in the world for Heaps. Shouldn't it go both ways?



Anyways, can't really believe that we're still talking about this. Heaps obviously is the guy who should be playing right now. At the same time I don't think it's too much to ask for the offense and Heaps to step up and dominate the rest of the MWC and put up a huge fight against utah.

frdbtr wrote:

frdbtr wrote:

People need to realize that Heaps is far behind where he would be now had the coaches not bungled the QB indecision. If stubborn Anae had given up the notion that Riley could be the guy, even in a 2-QB system, thus giving Heaps a full fall camp to get ready, then he would be far ahead of where he is now.



Don't underestimate the value of 50-60 hour weeks in fall camp with all the reps and the opporrunity for the offense gel. As it is, we basically hit the reset button on offense right around the FSU game, but it wasn't possible to have a full reset with a full fall camp. Nobody can know how our record would be different if Jake was rightly given a full chance starting out the gate, but I don't think we would have lost to USU, at least.



We are still a couple weeks away from where Jake should be ready for WEEK 1 of the regular season. I don't foresee him being really ready to go until, at the earliest, the last 2 weeks of the season.

I will become less willing to give him a pass on the whole "he didn't get enough reps in fall camp" if he doesn't carve up the dregs of the MWC with his passing. Like I posted in an earlier post in this thread. Matt Berry joined fall camp right after his mission, took over as starting qb half way through the year and had a 121 PER in 2002 with IMO the smallest and slowest recievers BYU has ever had. If Jake Heaps struggles against teams like UNLV, I am going to have a hard time giving him a pass anymore.

Did these smaller, slower receivers drop as many passes as our receivers?

Was Matt Berry barely 19 years old in the middle of a crap storm of unprecedented coaching debacles?

Cherry picking variables is really lame.

Matt Marshall has a better PER this season, so should he be the guy right now?

Let me think.....Crowton vs Bronco. Hmmmm. I would think that 2002 and 2003 are looked at as the worst coaching years in recent BYU history so I would think that this year Heaps is in a better situation, coaching wise, then Berry. I don't know off the top of my head how many balls were dropped by Berry's recievers but if you look at the talent pool, once again, Heaps has the upper hand there. If Heaps can't get it done against NM, CSU, UNLV, and Wyoming, then IMO he is not the answer at QB. You can blame the recievers and coaching all you want but the bottom line is these same recievers didn't have trouble holding onto the ball when it was being thrown by Max hall last year. And all of you all that are telling me that I can't compare Heaps to Max Hall because Max Hall is now in the NFL are proving my point for me.

While overall, you are correct, I think the 2-guy system was worse than any football-related decision Crowton ever made. Also, you can be sure that the 02 DC didn't give up.



But you're right. Maybe Popke from Necessary Roughness has some elegibility yet. Or the nerdy kid from Little Giants-or even Icebox.



I'm done with this topic. Anyone that thinks that the single biggest factor in our offensive struggles isn't the 2 QB decision doesn't have the mental capacity to understand much.



Who do you guys think Bronco is talking about when he says "uneducated fans"?