Sammich wrote:
I found this post on MWCboard... great post IMO
"This only reinforces my position - I'm a non-grad BYU fan who is against the honor code.
What I'm opposed to is this sort of circus, and I really feel for the kids. It's not about keeping athletes in school, it's about letting young students have the private space to find their own way in life.
None of us have our own laundry aired like this - I'm sure most of us have plenty in our present or past that could be derided, jeered or ridiculed.
IMO - a moral code only really holds when its self enforced based upon principals or goals that are internalized and owned. I'd prefer that the honor code were structured more in that direction, less legal in nature, more fuzzy and personal.
This thread is replete with low-minded sneering and smearing - based in mob mentality at its worst. It's precisely that sort of garbage that I'd like to help these kids avoid.
Maybe BYU isn't the best fit for all - and hopefully students could have open conversations with Deans and Coaches - like these students actually did - and find their own path. In the absence of the honor code - that could be just another transfer, stay private, and not be sensationalized in some peurile voyeuristic fashion.
That is a pretty preachy/presumptuous position...but these are pretty big changes in two young peoples' lives, and I'd like to see them have the best shot for love and happiness that they can have, and I worry that it will be more difficult for them than it needs to be, because of the media circus, and because of the mean-spiritedness evident in this thread."
I especially enjoyed this phrase: "a moral code only really holds when its self enforced based upon principals or goals that are internalized and owned."
Several pompous students will make the claim that having a "code" somehow saves the moral lives of these kids. I agree with the poster's point that true morality is self-enforced based upon ones principals. The HC is not preparation for the real world at all, and any student who actually IS living a moral life just because of the honor code, is most likely certainly not going to remain that way when there is no "code" being enforced.
I grew up my entire life on the east coast where there were very few members. The youth who truly had morals were the ones who stayed active and worthy. The ones who didn't were the ones who would sin the moment they weren't under the watch of church members and leadership. I think sometimes it's too difficult a concept for Utah/Idaho mormons to imagine following the commandments without some sort of code or committee constantly watching over them. This amounts to great followers, and awful leaders - and a LOT of people who rarely faced true opposition bragging about their chivalry.
I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, but I totally disagree with the premise that BYU needs to get rid of the "enforcement" side of the honor code. I'm sure there are differing opinions on why the honor code exists, but the most important one in my book is a simple one. Make the kids who want the drinking/drugs/sex/partying/nightlife college experience look for a different school. And for that reason alone, making the honor code an "internal, personal" thing would be a disaster, because the type of kid I mentioned wouldn't take that honor code seriously.
Reminds a bit of when I was in the Provo MTC. MTC "security" would ride around the MTC and neighboring blocks in vans watching for misbehaving missionaries. Didn't think much of it, but one day the mother of my companion dropped some stuff off for her son on the grass across the street (my companion grew up 3 blocks from the MTC). She didn't talk to us or anything. Just dropped it off and was getting back in her car when MTC "security" caught her. "Security" then proceeded to yell at my companion's mom, tell her she was breaking the rules, etc to the point my companion's mother burst into tears.
After that, I had to really wonder what the purpose of MTC "security" was. Every missionary in the MTC is an adult. If a missionary wants to break the rules or run away from the MTC, that's his prerogative. He/She is even the one paying to be there.
But for some reason the MTC and to a slightly lesser degree BYU seem to have this idea of "enforcing" the rules. To the point where they hire "security" to drive around in vans making sure everyone is behaving.
I don't see the point in it really, especially when dealing with adults. The men/women that want to misbehave will misbehave. Those that want to do good, will do good. I only see the need for enforcing it if inappropriate/immoral behavior is impeding or affecting those choosing otherwise.
Drinking and immoral behavior, like skate boarding :P , should not be tolerated on the BYU campus. Students not wanting to or making an effort to live the honor code should be shown the door; however, "security" vans, hall monitors and tattle-tale roommates are not needed.
