Archived Topic

The Role of Riley Nelson in Y Offense

by byucougar1 · 8/6/2011

Mars

8/7/2011, 9:45:59 PM

dmcougar wrote:
Wow. Sounds like he hasnt "worked very hard" during summer workouts.

Or James and Jake are in great shape.

Heaps is supposedly bigger and stronger this year though.

byucougar1

8/7/2011, 9:53:12 PM

In the Heaps interview he noted the run was more an indication of long distance endurance and not sprinting speed. He in fact states that Riley is the quickest. We need to be careful about being quick to judge on the results. Last year Marshall won the race to the top, but he wasn't the fastest player on the team. Each drill measures a skill set but we need to look at the overall picture not just snap shots in time.

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Schmoe

8/7/2011, 9:57:19 PM

Don't be fooled, Lark is a freak-of-nature as far as athletic QBs are concerned. Just because he doesn't have all the throws and the polish that some of the other guys do, doesn't mean he's not athletic. He has the highest bench press of any BYU QB ever.

scott715

8/7/2011, 11:44:56 PM

Maybe Riley will return kicks or move to RB.

SpiffCoug

8/7/2011, 11:46:48 PM

scott715 wrote:
Maybe Riley will return kicks or move to RB.

Do we have a FB? Maybe we can move Kariya to FB and have Riley take his touches at RB behind Q and JJ.

Cougs_Rule

8/8/2011, 1:31:45 AM

SpiffCoug wrote:
Um, finishing third is a sign of being out of shape? Not finishing a drill or meeting all the time hacks is a sign of being out of shape.

I wonder who finished third in the RB group. They're probably out of shape too. I sure wouldn't want to be the DL who finished fourth in his group, he'll probably never see the field.

The slow, "bulked up" pocket passer who has a "reputation" of not working hard in the summer and of being "the annointed" not-in-need-of-beating-out-the-back-ups-on-a-fitness test-guy beat the fleet of foot running QB? hmmm......must have been Jake's stride length that beat out Riley. Couldnt possible have been that Jake wants it more than Riley or that he could actually be outworking somebody he doesnt have to. My beef isnt with you Spiff. :-)

Cougs_Rule

8/8/2011, 1:37:40 AM

Schmoe wrote:
Don't be fooled, Lark is a freak-of-nature as far as athletic QBs are concerned. Just because he doesn't have all the throws and the polish that some of the other guys do, doesn't mean he's not athletic. He has the highest bench press of any BYU QB ever.

LArk will be #2 by mid-season. Nelson's game just will not fit this offense as well. Admittedly, it will be nice to have Riley very well prepared to "run" the offense, considerably modified, of course. Because he cannot make all the throws and will resort to "tuck, duck and run" until he gets leveled a couple of times and gets injured. Riley may have won the state high school battle with lark, but it will be different by season end.

SpiffCoug

8/8/2011, 2:39:41 AM

All during spring ball Riley ran the same BYU offense every other QB ran. It wasn't tailored to his running skill set. Nothing was "considerably modified, of course." In fact, Riley even went to Coach Doman and asked him not to change anything.

He was clearly the #2 guy behind Heaps.

In the only open spring practice, Riley looked head and shoulders better than Lark. Riley isn't running a different offense.

Lark didn't beat Riley on the field in HS and he hasn't been able to beat him in any camp in their time together at BYU.

Now that may change this fall camp, but I don't think it will. Riley will be the #2 guy behind Heaps. He'll be the guy to play mop up duty in multiple games. He'll be the guy the coaches turn to if Heaps goes down.

Lark has been in the program longer than any QB on the roster and is no closer to the field now than he was as a freshman.

Maybe it's time to realize he's not as good at Riley?

Cougarbib

8/8/2011, 4:24:21 AM

I will jump to the conclusion that it is me DNCougar has an issue with but probably because he seems to have an obsessed hatred for Riley Nelson. It reminds me of the guy on the other site that had a similar venom for Bronco for some supposed snub decades ago.

But yes, it was me that said that the BYU offense took off when among other things, Heaps started working harder after the USU debacle, Hill firing, and Bronco capturing the heart and soul of the team and Heaps earning the respect of and becoming the leader of the team. That caught me a lot of flack even though I was just paraphrasing quotes from Bronco I was reading on Deseret News, SL Trib, and Daily Herald on-line. I still take a kittle flack about rising tides and lifting boats too.

And I hope 99% of us avoid the debate where one of these guys has to be horrible vs both or all three being decent or good or great but with some differentiation.

So let's see how some paraphrasing of more recent quotes pans out.

Dick Harmon iirc - things are different this year for Heaps where last year 2/3 of the team did not accept him as their leader at the start of the season because he had not earned their respect. Me - not shocking. He was a True Freshman, held a press conference, and seemed to take some things for granted, early.

Heaps - I would not trade what I learned last year for ANYTHING. I will never again ASSUME a victory.

Various: heaps has more confidence and bilked up and worked hard in the offseason. Lesson learned apparently. He looks more like an athlete this yeR. He is clearly the leader of the offense. Enjoy it DM. No need to demonize anyone. And he does not, as you indicated, need to compete with Nelson.

Heaps- I set higher expectations for myself than anyone else could put on me. Me - those expectations are all he will need to compete against. He does not need to be better than Nelson, Lark, and Munns. He needs to be on a par with and even better than Jr / Sr Detmer, McMahon, Sr. Young, Bosco, Sarkisian, and Beck if BYU is going to have a shot at an undefeated season against this schedule.

Peace on You - Aloha - Out

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Cougarbib

8/8/2011, 4:37:40 AM

PS

I hope Lark and Munns bring it and are also prepared if called upon and I am just fine if one of them beats out Nelson or Heaps because that would mean they are very good in the first scenario and incredible in the latter one. If Doman is the QB coach Bronco and most BYU fans believe him to be, he will figure out the pecking order.

I have seen the BYU 5th string QB win the MVP award in a Bowl Game in my lifetime. I saw a back-up QB do a great job of keeping BYU in the game for the NC in 1984 until Bosco limped back on the field. With Bosco limping, I hated to see Fowler come out.

You never know who will need to play and I hope they are all ready.

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Mars

8/8/2011, 6:18:05 AM

SpiffCoug wrote:
Maybe Riley will return kicks or move to RB.

Do we have a FB? Maybe we can move Kariya to FB and have Riley take his touches at RB behind Q and JJ.

Kariya is 6-0/218. Not great FB size.

byucougar1

8/8/2011, 1:34:32 PM

http://www.deseretnews.com/mobile/article/700169193/BYU-football-Brandon-Doman-comfortable-in-his-offensive-coordinator-role.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This article indicates that Doman will make a decision about Riley's role in one week. He is still the #2 QB.

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Cougs_Rule

8/8/2011, 2:11:09 PM

SpiffCoug wrote:
All during spring ball Riley ran the same BYU offense every other QB ran. It wasn't tailored to his running skill set. Nothing was "considerably modified, of course." In fact, Riley even went to Coach Doman and asked him not to change anything.

Spiff, read the article (link below) about two offenses. Old news. Why did Riley go to ask "NOT" to change? Bc coaches knew his strengths and limitations.

He was clearly the #2 guy behind Heaps.

I dont disagree. Nor did I above.

In the only open spring practice, Riley looked head and shoulders better than Lark. Riley isn't running a different offense.

Maybe by spring, I will agree. But whatever the offenses were--besides new--they were so ineffective it was hard to tell much of anything.

Lark didn't beat Riley on the field in HS and he hasn't been able to beat him in any camp in their time together at BYU.

Read closer. I wrote that Riley did get the better of LArk--mostly bc he dominated in stats and won the state champ game, head-to-head.

Now that may change this fall camp, but I don't think it will. Riley will be the #2 guy behind Heaps. He'll be the guy to play mop up duty in multiple games. He'll be the guy the coaches turn to if Heaps goes down.

Lark has been in the program longer than any QB on the roster and is no closer to the field now than he was as a freshman.

Maybe it's time to realize he's not as good at Riley?

That may have been the case last year. But, we may not find out unless Heaps were to go down to injury and ten we find out once again that Riley's strengths and weaknesses are what they are. THis is a "downfield"offense and Riley will not likely deliver to our big dog receivers on the outside as optimal as the team and BD want. And as such it opens the door for Lark.

Cougs_Rule

8/8/2011, 2:32:53 PM

Cougarbib2 wrote:
I will jump to the conclusion that it is me DNCougar has an issue with but probably because he seems to have an obsessed hatred for Riley Nelson. It reminds me of the guy on the other site that had a similar venom for Bronco for some supposed snub decades ago.

But yes, it was me that said that the BYU offense took off when among other things, Heaps started working harder after the USU debacle, Hill firing, and Bronco capturing the heart and soul of the team and Heaps earning the respect of and becoming the leader of the team. That caught me a lot of flack even though I was just paraphrasing quotes from Bronco I was reading on Deseret News, SL Trib, and Daily Herald on-line. I still take a kittle flack about rising tides and lifting boats too.

Peace on You - Aloha - Out

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Bib, you know me. I love the debate. Not trying to put the "Doom on You." :-)

Not trying to demonize Riley either, vs point out that Riley has limitations that many posters and fans tried to play off. when his time in fall camp last year (passing stats) and the regular season pointed to defenses exploiting his limitations and he resorted to tuck, duck, and run, fans excused him. Then when he kept secret his injury so he could what, not lose his starting position, it hurt the team. Then fans started to see the sunglass-mask that he wore. He had so contributed to the factions on the team, sorry, but he did. And as a guy "with great leadership" I think he flat out failed. The losses were not all his fault> But his leadership was found to be about self-ascension and position protection from the new kid who even scared Riley he was so good.

BUt I would go further that Riley had the respect of his teammates and many of them justified their "cutting Jake out/not inviting/mentoring him into workouts and acceptance within workouts because of his press conf and yes, maybe his arrogance. Jake did know what he had to offer and Riley wasnt about to let him take Riley's opp from him.

Primarily, my contention, is that the whole Jake was "not working hard" came from 3rd hand rumoring by a few players bent on making sure that Jake "earned the respect" that is now being talked about.

So who is not working hard now? Dont tell me that Riley doesnt have the speed nor the endurance to beat out Jake in saturday's drill. Thats all determination and being in shape, barring injury, of course. So, the tables are turned now.

Guest

8/8/2011, 2:48:26 PM

Glad to see that the haters put on their blinders for the spring game. It's almost comical how much some people root so hard against certain BYU players, no matter how many times they prove they can make all the passes required in the BYU offense.

Lawboy

8/8/2011, 3:04:03 PM

hawkwing wrote:
Glad to see that the haters put on their blinders for the spring game. It's almost comical how much some people root so hard against certain BYU players, no matter how many times they prove they can make all the passes required in the BYU offense.

No, he can't. Just as Max Hall could not make all the same throws that John Beck could make. Nor could Max make all the throw Heaps can make. And it has nothing to do with hating, it is just stating an obvious fact. Riley has the weakest arm of all the top #4 BYU QB's. He is also the fastest runner, and no denying that either. Having the weakest arm means certain plays will be avoided when he plays due to risk factors. Such as deep outs, throws to the far sideline, deeper routes, etc. It does shrink the playbook. It has to.

Guest

8/8/2011, 3:14:51 PM

Lawboy wrote:
Glad to see that the haters put on their blinders for the spring game. It's almost comical how much some people root so hard against certain BYU players, no matter how many times they prove they can make all the passes required in the BYU offense.

No, he can't. Just as Max Hall could not make all the same throws that John Beck could make. Nor could Max make all the throw Heaps can make. And it has nothing to do with hating, it is just stating an obvious fact. Riley has the weakest arm of all the top #4 BYU QB's. He is also the fastest runner, and no denying that either. Having the weakest arm means certain plays will be avoided when he plays due to risk factors. Such as deep outs, throws to the far sideline, deeper routes, etc. It does shrink the playbook. It has to.

Never said he could make the same throws as Beck, which so far Heaps hasn't been able to make either. Just that he could make all the throws required of this offense. Just as Max Hall could. But those of us who were actually at the Spring game saw 20 - 30 yard in the air passes that looked crisp and clean from Nelson.

I also saw 40 - 60 yard passes that were beauts from Heaps, but not a single one was completed as they were all over thrown. I have a hard time believing that the 50 yard pass play is going to be the staple of our offense this year.

byucougar1

8/8/2011, 3:18:32 PM

Which leads back to our original assertion that he will be a situational playmaker when conditions are right for using his skill set.

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SpiffCoug

8/8/2011, 4:10:19 PM

dmcougar wrote:
That may have been the case last year. But, we may not find out unless Heaps were to go down to injury and ten we find out once again that Riley's strengths and weaknesses are what they are. THis is a "downfield"offense and Riley will not likely deliver to our big dog receivers on the outside as optimal as the team and BD want. And as such it opens the door for Lark.[/color]

Didn't we have a "downfield" offense in spring ball? Lark couldn't beat Riley out then. He hasn't been able to beat him out through two years in the program. Until I see otherwise, I have no reason to believe he'll starting beating him out now.

Riley had the longest completion in the spring ball game. Riley's arm isn't as strong as Jake's but to pretend like he's some 3rd grade school girl who couldn't even throw the ball over the offensive line is asinine.

I agree he can't deliver as much as the team and coaches want - that's why he's 2nd behind Heaps. But wouldn't that same logic then apply to Lark as well? If he could, wouldn't he be ahead of Riley? Lark has had multiple opportunities to pass him. He hasn't yet. Maybe he will this week.

The good news is that we're settled on who the #1 guy is. Hopefully we never need to rely on the #2 guy because neither is better or as good as Heaps. The #2 guy will see plenty of mop up duty during our myriad awful home games.

MojoCougar

8/8/2011, 5:27:42 PM

Come on guys-- it's so obvious! Dupaix was brought in to scrap last year's O. Ole Miss will be totally shocked when Riley comes out Sep 3rd running the triple option. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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