Dose of Reality - Kyle Whittingham

For the few who have been singing the praises of Kyle Whittingham:

2005, 7-5

2006, 8-5

2007, 9-4

2008, 13-0

2009, 10-3

2010, 10-3

2011, 8-5

2012, 5-7

2013, 5-7

2014, 9-4

2015, 8-3 (so far)



Overall he has a worse win-loss percentage than Bronco, and his recent history is worse than Bronco's. His best season so far came early in his tenure similar to Bronco.



He has laid plenty of eggs; especially after sacrificing everything else to overperform against BYU.



Go ahead and debate what you want to about Anae and Bronco, but Whittingham is no gold standard of perfection himself. He has one spectacular year and quite a few overall good years.



As a side note there was no dramatic win-loss trend leading up to the season where all the stars aligned and they had a perfect season. The stars just aligned when they did.

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Jarhead wrote:
For the few who have been singing the praises of Kyle Whittingham:

2005, 7-5

2006, 8-5

2007, 9-4

2008, 13-0

2009, 10-3

2010, 10-3

2011, 8-5

2012, 5-7

2013, 5-7

2014, 9-4

2015, 8-3 (so far)



Overall he has a worse win-loss percentage than Bronco, and his recent history is worse than Bronco's. His best season so far came early in his tenure similar to Bronco.



He has laid plenty of eggs; especially after sacrificing everything else to overperform against BYU.



Go ahead and debate what you want to about Anae and Bronco, but Whittingham is no gold standard of perfection himself. He has one spectacular year and quite a few overall good years.



As a side note there was no dramatic win-loss trend leading up to the season where all the stars aligned and they had a perfect season. The stars just aligned when they did.

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You don't say? I thought Kwitt only laid the occasional egg :skeptic: I guess we'll need to go after someone else like Les Miles or Chris Peterson. Maybe Gary Anderson or kalani sataki? They have local ties.



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Whittingham took an undefeated team in 04 and took them 7-5 the next year. He hit lightning in a bottle in 08 and went undefeated. Bronco has had a better record than Kwhit nearly every year, and finished ahead of whit all but 1 year in the MWC. Oh, and bronco did it playing mostly walk on's in his defensive secondary. Kwhit would have been fired from BYU long ago and we would have had to hire another coach because Bronco would have been long gone. BYU got lucky to get a guy as good as Bronco and he can and will coach as long as he wants at BYU because, not only his ability to win with less talent, but his ability to keep the team out of the news for negative reasons.

The common opponents comparison between BYU and Utah this year has flipped from where it was after the first month of the season. After Michigan, you'd have thought Utah was light-years ahead of BYU. Now after Fresno State and UCLA, suddenly the Utes aren't looking that hot and the Cougs are looking more robust.

snoscythe wrote:
The common opponents comparison between BYU and Utah this year has flipped from where it was after the first month of the season. After Michigan, you'd have thought Utah was light-years ahead of BYU. Now after Fresno State and UCLA, suddenly the Utes aren't looking that hot and the Cougs are looking more robust.

That is why the comparative score game is silly at best. Fan speculation at its best. Needs to be settled on the field of play.

All I care about is how many timeouts each one has used before an extra point attempt.



Where's that comparison?

I've never been one to sing Kyle's praises. I can't stand him, I think he's a Judas traitor, and wish him nothing but misfortune.



That said, he's always struck me as a overall better X's and O's guy than Bronco. And he does have an undefeated season and Sugar Bowl win, which some may argue is more memorable than a few 10 or 11 win seasons.



But most of all, he's totally owned Bronco in the rivalry. Bronco is currently 3-6 against Kyle, including winning the last 4 straight. All 3 of our wins we've had to squeeze out towards the end by the skin of our teeth. The days of us completely destroying Utah in a game have been a distant memory under Bronco, and frankly, I don't think we'll ever see it as long as he's coaching at BYU and Kyle is coaching at Utah. And all of this is simply unacceptable. And the "I don't care about Utah" crowd can stuff it. They're lying or they're just stupid.



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All but 2 of Kyle's wins were close as well. So in the 9 games, 7 could have gone either way. In the coin flip games, it's 3-4.



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KingCoug wrote:
I've never been one to sing Kyle's praises. I can't stand him, I think he's a Judas traitor, and wish him nothing but misfortune.



That said, he's always struck me as a overall better X's and O's guy than Bronco. And he does have an undefeated season and Sugar Bowl win, which some may argue is more memorable than a few 10 or 11 win seasons.



But most of all, he's totally owned Bronco in the rivalry. Bronco is currently 3-6 against Kyle, including winning the last 4 straight. All 3 of our wins we've had to squeeze out towards the end by the skin of our teeth. The days of us completely destroying Utah in a game have been a distant memory under Bronco, and frankly, I don't think we'll ever see it as long as he's coaching at BYU and Kyle is coaching at Utah. And all of this is simply unacceptable. And the "I don't care about Utah" crowd can stuff it. They're lying or they're just stupid.



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I still don't really care about utah. I'm not lying, but have been known to be plenty stupid. Not worth it though, I put enough time and mental anguish into BYU that I don't need to create more worrying about utah.



GO COUGS!!!!!!!!!

The only stat that matters the most to me is Bronco 3-6 vs Kyle. Some of you can spin it all you want but the fact of the matter is Kyle has out coached and dominated Bronco against each other. I don't give a rats arse who won the most bowl games or has a better winning percentage. BYU vs UT the last four outing...we choked. Hopefully that starts to change next year.



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The days of us destroying utah under Lavell are a distant memory too. In fact, BYU hasn't consistently dominated utah since the 80's. It isn't a Bronco thing. utah got competitive under McBride and has continued this since then. The last time BYU got a dominating win was in 96.

frdbtr wrote:
The days of us destroying utah under Lavell are a distant memory too. In fact, BYU hasn't consistently dominated utah since the 80's. It isn't a Bronco thing. utah got competitive under McBride and has continued this since then. The last time BYU got a dominating win was in 96.

The current BYU-Utah series stands at 31 wins for BYU, 54 wins for Utah and 4 ties. BYU's winning percentage stands at a robust .348.



In the first 50 years of the rivalry (1922-1971), BYU was 5-38-4 (.106). The average score was 9.1-24.9. BYU didn't get their first win until the 21st meeting in 1942.



In games played in SLC, the Cougars were 4-27-3 (.118). BYU was 1-11-1 (.077) in Provo.



Clearly BYU was Little Brother in the rivalry. Then Lavell Edwards was hired. And the rivalry was spun around on its head for the next 20 years.



From 1972 to 1992, BYU won 19 of the 21 matchups (.905). The games were not close, the average score was 38.4-18.8. BYU was an undefeated 10-0 (1.000) at home.



The Cougars won by double digits 15 times, by 20 or more 12 times, and by 30 or more six times including a 56-6 win in 1980, their largest ever margin of victory. This coincided with the glory days, and BYU fans were convinced they had grown up and passed Big Brother by.



But in 1993, the rivalry and sibling status began to return to normal. In the 21 games since, BYU has lost 14 of the 21 games (.333). And BYU is once again, horrid at home with a 3-8 (.273) and been reentrenched in its Little Brother status.



The first 20 years of the Lavell era were the anomaly in this rivalry. Utah is Big Brother.

SpiffCoug wrote:

The days of us destroying utah under Lavell are a distant memory too. In fact, BYU hasn't consistently dominated utah since the 80's. It isn't a Bronco thing. utah got competitive under McBride and has continued this since then. The last time BYU got a dominating win was in 96.

The current BYU-Utah series stands at 31 wins for BYU, 54 wins for Utah and 4 ties. BYU's winning percentage stands at a robust .348.



In the first 50 years of the rivalry (1922-1971), BYU was 5-38-4 (.106). The average score was 9.1-24.9. BYU didn't get their first win until the 21st meeting in 1942.



In games played in SLC, the Cougars were 4-27-3 (.118). BYU was 1-11-1 (.077) in Provo.



Clearly BYU was Little Brother in the rivalry. Then Lavell Edwards was hired. And the rivalry was spun around on its head for the next 20 years.



From 1972 to 1992, BYU won 19 of the 21 matchups (.905). The games were not close, the average score was 38.4-18.8. BYU was an undefeated 10-0 (1.000) at home.



The Cougars won by double digits 15 times, by 20 or more 12 times, and by 30 or more six times including a 56-6 win in 1980, their largest ever margin of victory. This coincided with the glory days, and BYU fans were convinced they had grown up and passed Big Brother by.



But in 1993, the rivalry and sibling status began to return to normal. In the 21 games since, BYU has lost 14 of the 21 games (.333). And BYU is once again, horrid at home with a 3-8 (.273) and been reentrenched in its Little Brother status.



The first 20 years of the Lavell era were the anomaly in this rivalry. Utah is Big Brother.

I like to think of Utah more along the lines of the wicked stepsister

Can we make kwitt the ugly step sister from Shrek?



By the way thanks for taking the football high that was the weekend back down to a low Spiff. Didn't even throw us the bone of the BYU argument on when the rivalry really started.



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Stirfry wrote:
Can we make kwitt the ugly step sister from Shrek?



By the way thanks for taking the football high that was the weekend back down to a low Spiff. Didn't even throw us the bone of the BYU argument on when the rivalry really started.



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Look, if Spiff wants to count all of those losses to the Utes from the days when Gentiles were coaching the Cougs, who are any of us to stand in the way? As for me and my house, we will only count wins and losses against the Utes since November 18, 1972 BWL (Beginning With LaVell), thus giving BYU an all-time 26-16 advantage in the series. Next year the pendulum begins to swing once again in favor of the Cougs :)

As penance, I watched the Utah State highlights three times in a row.

birdie702 wrote:
The only stat that matters the most to me is Bronco 3-6 vs Kyle. Some of you can spin it all you want but the fact of the matter is Kyle has out coached and dominated Bronco against each other. I don't give a rats arse who won the most bowl games or has a better winning percentage. BYU vs UT the last four outing...we choked. Hopefully that starts to change next year.



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This is more than a little ridiculous. So by your logic it's better to be a Texas fan this year instead of Oklahoma. Rivalry games are important, but they are not the only thing that should matter.



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The fact is, Lavell teams did blow out Utah at one time or another. Bronco teams have never done it once and I doubt they ever will. It certainly is a Bronco thing.



As for the overall record between the two teams, no use cherry-picking which years one wants to acknowledge. But I will say that, if you look at where the game was played in the early decades of the rivalry, more than half of them were at Utah. In other words, Utah had home field advantage much of the time, which wasn't exactly fair.



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Jarhead wrote:

The only stat that matters the most to me is Bronco 3-6 vs Kyle. Some of you can spin it all you want but the fact of the matter is Kyle has out coached and dominated Bronco against each other. I don't give a rats arse who won the most bowl games or has a better winning percentage. BYU vs UT the last four outing...we choked. Hopefully that starts to change next year.



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This is more than a little ridiculous. So by your logic it's better to be a Texas fan this year instead of Oklahoma. Rivalry games are important, but they are not the only thing that should matter.



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Maybe you are right. But beating byu, no mostly dominating BYU, likely saved Whitts job. Had BYU reversed the record During the Bronco/Whitt era, Whitt would be long gone during the rough transition to Pac12.

In contrast Bronco has been able to play the most important card to the Primary Stakeholders--the BoT, in that he has run for the most part a very clean, first-things-first program (as the BoT defines it) AND He has had winning seasons. And so, Bronco has been able to get away with what most coaches can't--consistently treating your rival game as "just another game" and therefore losing consistently to the schools rival.

The fairly convincing win vs USU was huge. Losing two years in a row to the little brother would have been devastating. Follow that up with a loss in 2016 to utah and Broncos luster would tarnish a little bit more by the ever critical secondary Stake holders, that of Big donors. And once the secondary Stake holders substantively turn on a coach, it's the beginning of the end. Chuckles fumble was the gift that will keep on giving for Bronco. His teams ability to capitalize and run away with the game increases Broncos stock significantly. If Matt Wells bolts to Mizzou, don't count on another strong coach coming in. I think Wells was a great choice, but I think USUs run Is over. I don't see the pipeline that Anderson set as being sustained if Wells leaves.

Anywho, Whitt could not afford to lose consistently to his rival and that's a dose of reality that he has now almost transcended bc BYU is not much of a threat to Utah as he has the formula worked out. He may lose to the UNLVs the game after, but he puts IT all on the line to beat his rival. And that's a dose that's hard to swallow for many BYU fans.

And as weak as it sounds, it's why I would love a BYU v Utah bowl game, bc they are wounded and vulnerable. Their O is anemic and BYU would have a good chance to beat them. Whitt will revamp his O to match his D by next season and be a very tough game for BYU to start BYUs hardest seasons EVER!

Cougs_Rule wrote:

birdie702 wrote:
The only stat that matters the most to me is Bronco 3-6 vs Kyle. Some of you can spin it all you want but the fact of the matter is Kyle has out coached and dominated Bronco against each other. I don't give a rats arse who won the most bowl games or has a better winning percentage. BYU vs UT the last four outing...we choked. Hopefully that starts to change next year.



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This is more than a little ridiculous. So by your logic it's better to be a Texas fan this year instead of Oklahoma. Rivalry games are important, but they are not the only thing that should matter.



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Maybe you are right. But beating byu, no mostly dominating BYU, likely saved Whitts job. Had BYU reversed the record During the Bronco/Whitt era, Whitt would be long gone during the rough transition to Pac12.

In contrast Bronco has been able to play the most important card to the Primary Stakeholders--the BoT, in that he has run for the most part a very clean, first-things-first program (as the BoT defines it) AND He has had winning seasons. And so, Bronco has been able to get away with what most coaches can't--consistently treating your rival game as "just another game" and therefore losing consistently to the schools rival.

The fairly convincing win vs USU was huge. Losing two years in a row to the little brother would have been devastating. Follow that up with a loss in 2016 to utah and Broncos luster would tarnish a little bit more by the ever critical secondary Stake holders, that of Big donors. And once the secondary Stake holders substantively turn on a coach, it's the beginning of the end. Chuckles fumble was the gift that will keep on giving for Bronco. His teams ability to capitalize and run away with the game increases Broncos stock significantly. If Matt Wells bolts to Mizzou, don't count on another strong coach coming in. I think Wells was a great choice, but I think USUs run Is over. I don't see the pipeline that Anderson set as being sustained if Wells leaves.

Anywho, Whitt could not afford to lose consistently to his rival and that's a dose of reality that he has now almost transcended bc BYU is not much of a threat to Utah as he has the formula worked out. He may lose to the UNLVs the game after, but he puts IT all on the line to beat his rival. And that's a dose that's hard to swallow for many BYU fans.

And as weak as it sounds, it's why I would love a BYU v Utah bowl game, bc they are wounded and vulnerable. Their O is anemic and BYU would have a good chance to beat them. Whitt will revamp his O to match his D by next season and be a very tough game for BYU to start BYUs hardest seasons EVER!

To put it simply, both coaches, Bronco and Whit are doing exactly what their primary stakeholders want from them.



For BYU it's run a clean program, raise and develop good men, and have consistent winning seasons regardless of ramping up SOS.



For Utah, it's lose any game except against BYU.