Dose of Reality - Kyle Whittingham

SpiffCoug wrote:

The current BYU-Utah series stands at 31 wins for BYU, 54 wins for Utah and 4 ties. BYU's winning percentage stands at a robust .348.

This is a totally misleading stat as more games were played in SLC than in Provo in the early days. In fact, the rivalry record is nearly identical to how many home games each team has had.

Wolverine wrote:

Can we make kwitt the ugly step sister from Shrek?



By the way thanks for taking the football high that was the weekend back down to a low Spiff. Didn't even throw us the bone of the BYU argument on when the rivalry really started.



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Look, if Spiff wants to count all of those losses to the Utes from the days when Gentiles were coaching the Cougs, who are any of us to stand in the way? As for me and my house, we will only count wins and losses against the Utes since November 18, 1972 BWL (Beginning With LaVell), thus giving BYU an all-time 26-16 advantage in the series. Next year the pendulum begins to swing once again in favor of the Cougs :)

The fact is, before the LaVell Edwards era, 72% of the games were played on the Utes home field (34 games out of 47). That doesn't count the first six games since BYA included high school kids on the football team, even though they were 3-3 in those games. It is no wonder that with playing at home 72% of the time the :utard: had a lopsided total of more wins during that era. Only 13 games over that time were played in Provo (28%), and BYU won five games over that era, 3 of those wins being on the road at Utah, and tied four times (three of those four on the road). If BYU had played more home games, it stands to reason that some of those ties might have been wins as well as some of close losses along the way. I still think Utah would be in the lead based on the scores for many of those games over that early era, but it would be much closer.

KingCoug wrote:
The fact is, Lavell teams did blow out Utah at one time or another. Bronco teams have never done it once and I doubt they ever will. It certainly is a Bronco thing.



As for the overall record between the two teams, no use cherry-picking which years one wants to acknowledge. But I will say that, if you look at where the game was played in the early decades of the rivalry, more than half of them were at Utah. In other words, Utah had home field advantage much of the time, which wasn't exactly fair.



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No, it's not a Bronco thing, it is a McBride, Urban Meyer, and Kyle whittingham thing. Since those coaches took over the utes, they made them good (especially defensively) and the rivalry has been a nail biter even when BYU clearly had the better team. This is not a Bronco thing. Get used to it. Since Kwhit took over the defense of the utes, BYU has not been able to dominate them offensively.

frdbtr wrote:

The fact is, Lavell teams did blow out Utah at one time or another. Bronco teams have never done it once and I doubt they ever will. It certainly is a Bronco thing.



As for the overall record between the two teams, no use cherry-picking which years one wants to acknowledge. But I will say that, if you look at where the game was played in the early decades of the rivalry, more than half of them were at Utah. In other words, Utah had home field advantage much of the time, which wasn't exactly fair.



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No, it's not a Bronco thing, it is a McBride, Urban Meyer, and Kyle whittingham thing. Since those coaches took over the utes, they made them good (especially defensively) and the rivalry has been a nail biter even when BYU clearly had the better team. This is not a Bronco thing. Get used to it. Since Kwhit took over the defense of the utes, BYU has not been able to dominate them offensively.

Actually, it's just a KWhitt thing. McBride hired Whitt in his fourth year (1994). He's been the constant in BYU's lack of offensive production against Utah.



In the 20 year preceding Whitt's hire, BYU averaged 39 points a game. In the 21 games since, they've averaged 21.

SpiffCoug wrote:

KingCoug wrote:
The fact is, Lavell teams did blow out Utah at one time or another. Bronco teams have never done it once and I doubt they ever will. It certainly is a Bronco thing.



As for the overall record between the two teams, no use cherry-picking which years one wants to acknowledge. But I will say that, if you look at where the game was played in the early decades of the rivalry, more than half of them were at Utah. In other words, Utah had home field advantage much of the time, which wasn't exactly fair.



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No, it's not a Bronco thing, it is a McBride, Urban Meyer, and Kyle whittingham thing. Since those coaches took over the utes, they made them good (especially defensively) and the rivalry has been a nail biter even when BYU clearly had the better team. This is not a Bronco thing. Get used to it. Since Kwhit took over the defense of the utes, BYU has not been able to dominate them offensively.

Actually, it's just a KWhitt thing. McBride hired Whitt in his fourth year (1994). He's been the constant in BYU's lack of offensive production against Utah.



In the 20 year preceding Whitt's hire, BYU averaged 39 points a game. In the 21 games since, they've averaged 21.

Well, if we are going to give credit to head coaches for making decisions, you have to include Mcbride and urban in this equation. But whit does know how to defend BYU. His defenses have kept Utah in all games since 94 with the exception of 96. I thought in 01, 06, 07, and 09 that BYU clearly had the better team and yet we didn't get comfortable wins in any of those games.

Jarhead wrote:

The only stat that matters the most to me is Bronco 3-6 vs Kyle. Some of you can spin it all you want but the fact of the matter is Kyle has out coached and dominated Bronco against each other. I don't give a rats arse who won the most bowl games or has a better winning percentage. BYU vs UT the last four outing...we choked. Hopefully that starts to change next year.



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This is more than a little ridiculous. So by your logic it's better to be a Texas fan this year instead of Oklahoma. Rivalry games are important, but they are not the only thing that should matter.



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You're ridiculous! To most BYU and UT fans, losing to either one is a freaken BIG deal. Don't tell me that you were happy with our record and that we made it to bowl games after bowl games even after LOSING to the Utes. If so, then you need to wake the hell up!!



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frdbtr wrote:

The fact is, Lavell teams did blow out Utah at one time or another. Bronco teams have never done it once and I doubt they ever will. It certainly is a Bronco thing.



As for the overall record between the two teams, no use cherry-picking which years one wants to acknowledge. But I will say that, if you look at where the game was played in the early decades of the rivalry, more than half of them were at Utah. In other words, Utah had home field advantage much of the time, which wasn't exactly fair.



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No, it's not a Bronco thing, it is a McBride, Urban Meyer, and Kyle whittingham thing. Since those coaches took over the utes, they made them good (especially defensively) and the rivalry has been a nail biter even when BYU clearly had the better team. This is not a Bronco thing. Get used to it. Since Kwhit took over the defense of the utes, BYU has not been able to dominate them offensively.

I have gotten used to it but that doesn't mean I find it acceptable. Often the games are close but Utah has blown us out twice. Is it too much to expect a Bronco team to return the favor at least once? You guys need to quit defending him at all costs and letting him off the hook.



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KingCoug wrote:

KingCoug wrote:
The fact is, Lavell teams did blow out Utah at one time or another. Bronco teams have never done it once and I doubt they ever will. It certainly is a Bronco thing.



As for the overall record between the two teams, no use cherry-picking which years one wants to acknowledge. But I will say that, if you look at where the game was played in the early decades of the rivalry, more than half of them were at Utah. In other words, Utah had home field advantage much of the time, which wasn't exactly fair.



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No, it's not a Bronco thing, it is a McBride, Urban Meyer, and Kyle whittingham thing. Since those coaches took over the utes, they made them good (especially defensively) and the rivalry has been a nail biter even when BYU clearly had the better team. This is not a Bronco thing. Get used to it. Since Kwhit took over the defense of the utes, BYU has not been able to dominate them offensively.

I have gotten used to it but that doesn't mean I find it acceptable. Often the games are close but Utah has blown us out twice. Is it too much to expect a Bronco team to return the favor at least once? You guys need to quit defending him at all costs and letting him off the hook.



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My point isn't to defend Bronco as much as it is to point out the fallacy in your argument. I'm not happy with the rivalry, in fact it is the thing that currently irritates me the most about BYU football, but it is not new and it is not something unique to Bronco. I had hoped that Bronco would start to dominate the utes and it kind of looked like that until the 4th quarter in 10 when BYU couldn't get out of its own way along with a horrible reviewed but not overturned fumble that cost BYU the game. Since then, it seems like BYU comes into the utah game scared and expecting to lose and has handed some pretty poor utah teams a victory that they did not deserve. Having said that, I don't expect any blowouts anytime soon, Kwits defense along with BYU's talent level to be less than or evenly matched with them doesn't support the argument that BYU should dominate them. Sorry, but being objective, it is what it is.

birdie702 wrote:

birdie702 wrote:
The only stat that matters the most to me is Bronco 3-6 vs Kyle. Some of you can spin it all you want but the fact of the matter is Kyle has out coached and dominated Bronco against each other. I don't give a rats arse who won the most bowl games or has a better winning percentage. BYU vs UT the last four outing...we choked. Hopefully that starts to change next year.



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This is more than a little ridiculous. So by your logic it's better to be a Texas fan this year instead of Oklahoma. Rivalry games are important, but they are not the only thing that should matter.



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You're ridiculous! To most BYU and UT fans, losing to either one is a freaken BIG deal. Don't tell me that you were happy with our record and that we made it to bowl games after bowl games even after LOSING to the Utes. If so, then you need to wake the hell up!!



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You stated that the ONLY stat that matters to you is Bronco's record vs. Kyle. That statement is somewhat ridiculous. That stat is important, but it is not the ONLY stat that matters. I'll take a CFP berth over a rivalry win any day. It hurts a little to say that, but it's true. If I was forced to choose between a winning record and bowl game vs winning the rivalry game, the majority of the time I would probably pick the winning record. I wouldn't be satisfied with that situation, but I would be even less satisfied with abysmal losing seasons.



I'd also appreciate it if you refrain from swearing in my direction.



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