KVN

snoscythe wrote:
You ever see that mole on Cindy Crawford? What a cow.

POTD. Back at ya. Lol.

hawkwing wrote:
I have obviously not been reading the same comments some of the others have.



Where have you guys been reading bashing and assaulting on KVN?

Well assault might be a little strong but bashing?....

KVN's lackluster and lazy play.

I am at the point now where I expect him to miss the pretty much every sack/behind the line tackle.

WTF is wrong with this kid?

his bumbling behind the line of scrimmage

He hasn't been busting his butt on some coverages either

KVN has been a non-factor now in 2 straight games

He's playing as if he's disinterested

this is not the KVN of last year

That is a huge difference and is a sign of diminished ability.

Whether it is laziness or due to injury (in fairness)

Stirfry wrote:

I have obviously not been reading the same comments some of the others have.



Where have you guys been reading bashing and assaulting on KVN?

Well assault might be a little strong but bashing?....

KVN's lackluster and lazy play.

I am at the point now where I expect him to miss the pretty much every sack/behind the line tackle.

WTF is wrong with this kid?

his bumbling behind the line of scrimmage

He hasn't been busting his butt on some coverages either

KVN has been a non-factor now in 2 straight games

He's playing as if he's disinterested

this is not the KVN of last year

That is a huge difference and is a sign of diminished ability.

Whether it is laziness or due to injury (in fairness)

Yeah, my recollection of the OP was a bit foggy, I agree that it does contain some bashing.

The answer is what stirfry and poppinga brought up. fatigue. kvn is in almost every play. with gfgh and other teams increasing their number of plays together with teams scheming against him he is simply tired.



it is like jimmer. there was no back up for him so he played basically the hwole game and his shooting percentages slowly went down. he got tired. that is what we are seeing.



he has missed tackles the last few games that he normally doesn't. he is gassed.



he is also the big man on campus and living up his lsat year in college. he knows is is going pro and going to get paid. the drive may be a little weaker than normal because he has essentially made it.

If Jonnylingo is right and KVN is gassed ... we should see a marked improvement against Wisconsin following a bye (and against ND since ISU is the week before and all our 2nd teamers SHOULD get ample playing time)

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsbyusports/57057696-65/think-noy-van-plays.html.csp



Jay Drew summing up Poppinga's interview.

Stirfry wrote:
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsbyusports/57057696-65/think-noy-van-plays.html.csp



Jay Drew summing up Poppinga's interview.

the one thing that shocked me from this article is that vannoy says that unga his playing with a broken hand!!! what!!??

mtnradio wrote:
If Jonnylingo is right and KVN is gassed ... we should see a marked improvement against Wisconsin following a bye (and against ND since ISU is the week before and all our 2nd teamers SHOULD get ample playing time)

The purpose of GFGH is to gas the opposing D. Sometimes you gas your own offense and defense because they cannot go that number of plays with so little time between plays. It gets worse when the opponent also does GFGH like Houston did. It is even an issue after a bye week. Thw solution is to rotate in backups during each game. That takes depth at all positions.



Id anyone thinks KVN is not going as hard as he can or lacks motivation, look at how hard he is on himself after diving and only being able to get finger tips on the guy.



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jonnylingo wrote:
The answer is what stirfry and poppinga brought up. fatigue. kvn is in almost every play. with gfgh and other teams increasing their number of plays together with teams scheming against him he is simply tired.



it is like jimmer. there was no back up for him so he played basically the hwole game and his shooting percentages slowly went down. he got tired. that is what we are seeing.



he has missed tackles the last few games that he normally doesn't. he is gassed.



he is also the big man on campus and living up his lsat year in college. he knows is is going pro and going to get paid. the drive may be a little weaker than normal because he has essentially made it.

Reading through this thread I believe Jonnylingo to be the closest to the truth.



INterview posted last nigh on KSL, KVN was mentioning how BSU was running plays away from him and that ( along with good play) was why Alani had so many tackles.



Teams are game planning for him. After 3 years and a "Super" bowl game, I don't think anyone thinks they can ignore him. Fatigue esp. in the Houston game( 100 defensive plays?) KVN isn't a robot, guy I'm sure was gassed like the rest of the team.



My first thought when seeing missed tackles in the houston game was that he is over playing, getting out of position to try and make a play. I almost think that is is trying to hard and that is costing him tackles due to being out of the scheme. He had a lot to live up to this year and I believe he is going into games knowing that he needs to get sacks. Instead of playing within the system and making the sure tackle he is going all out to make a big play.

mizzoucoug wrote:
I will only nitpick one thing from this game (well the season really) and that is KVN's lackluster and lazy play. He has missed probably 10+ tackles this season because he is arm tackling and diving at QB's instead of wrapping up and taking people down. Last year he was a sure thing playmaker, whereas this season I am at the point now where I expect him to miss the pretty much every sack/behind the line tackle.



WTF is wrong with this kid? If I am seeing this then you'd better believe the scouts are too. He is no longer a 1st round pick imo.



We need him to make these plays against Wisc and ND if we're going to beat them. I've counted 2 TD's scored in the last 2 games as a result of his bumbling behind the line of scrimmage (yes, at least he is getting there but he's leaving the secondary hung out to dry when he misses). Let's go!

This is why you go to the NFL after having a monster season.

I'm not really getting on KVN. Yes, he's missed some tackles. How much of that is due to him versus chance, I don't know. Guy is a play maker and influences every down he's a part of, hard to get on him.



I'm sure we'll see him at full capacity next week.



I would like to see our starters getting a bit more rest, especially late in games when we're up.

Actually, this is why you do not go early. KVN has had rhe spotlight all season and scouts are coming out in record numbers. He is now on every radar screen. He will get tons of looks. And thwn it eventually always comes down to the combines.



Then, all will be watching and KVN will be timed and measured. Not one scout will be worried about KVN getting gassed on 115 plays. They realize that anyone would.



You stay for legacy. Austin Collie got an extra year of Payday by going early and an extra year to watch Hoffman, who stayed, shatter all of his records. Some may try to put a hypothetical asterisk by those records - but time and the ever vigilant Hawkwing will not allow that. Hoffman's records will stand - and he will remembered by many as the greatest ever. Over the years, Collie will drop further and furthet down the list - because he did not stay. He may retain some single season or per game or single game records - but no career records.



Defensive records do not get as much press. But when most people list their list of best defensivw players EVER at BYU, KVN will be on the list - at or near the top.



If KVN sees any drop in draft stock vs 2012 it will be due to combine results - and that would have happened no matter when he went.



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I hadn't thought about that issue that we're averaging 17 plus more defensive plays this season than last. I think all would agree that the competition has been a bit stiffer than last season. Jay Drew doesn't think we're as good as last season. I don't know. I know we're different. I think that Ziggy was more of an impact, and subsequent loss, than some imagine.



I've seen KVN miss more tackles the last two games, but I believe it was totally how the play unfolded and easily could have ended in him making the sacks. If the competition is better than last season, then wouldn't we expect that the numbers might be less than last season? I'm not worried. My experience with KVN is that he'll be there when needed. If that's all we have to worry about, then we're in pretty good shape.



I was surprised by the Uani Unga's broken hand issue that I wasn't aware of. How'd we miss that?

Cougarbib wrote:
Actually, this is why you do not go early. KVN has had rhe spotlight all season and scouts are coming out in record numbers. He is now on every radar screen. He will get tons of looks. And thwn it eventually always comes down to the combines.



Then, all will be watching and KVN will be timed and measured. Not one scout will be worried about KVN getting gassed on 115 plays. They realize that anyone would.



You stay for legacy. Austin Collie got an extra year of Payday by going early and an extra year to watch Hoffman, who stayed, shatter all of his records. Some may try to put a hypothetical asterisk by those records - but time and the ever vigilant Hawkwing will not allow that. Hoffman's records will stand - and he will remembered by many as the greatest ever. Over the years, Collie will drop further and furthet down the list - because he did not stay. He may retain some single season or per game or single game records - but no career records.



Defensive records do not get as much press. But when most people list their list of best defensivw players EVER at BYU, KVN will be on the list - at or near the top.



If KVN sees any drop in draft stock vs 2012 it will be due to combine results - and that would have happened no matter when he went.



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I don't know how much I buy that theory Bib. I'll give you the "legacy" theory. I don't know though if KVN is close or on pace to break some defensive #'s.



Going to the NFL is all about timing and maximizing your draft stock. Bottom line it's about money. A harder schedule in 2013. Teams game planning around him more than any other time in his career. A microscope on him more than ever. KVN would have to be god to surpass last seasons stats considering. I'm sure he thought he could, and scouts wanted to see if he could as well. As far as Kyle goes, leaving after the crescendo that was the bowl game would have been the best for him.( NFL draft wise )



Comparing Hoffman to KVN is two different things. Hoff was knocking on the door to get into the record books. Hoffs draft stock wasn't that great. No way he was as NFL ready as KVN. Risk to reward for Hoff. is a lot different than KVN. Kyle has an insurance policy does Cody??( i'm not sure)

You need look no further than John Walsh to see what happens when gaudy stats bring hype and NFL Agents, and a player signs amidst hoopla and $ anticipation and leaves early with predictions to go early 1st round - possibly #1 pick



And then BAM



Combines. Oh - crap he is a slow runner - unexpected finding. BAM. Undrafted.



KVN either has it or he does not have it. But he has way more atrention this Year than last. More teams will give him a serious look. If he shows what they want to see in the combines he will go high. They already know he has the intangibles.



Hopefully, KVN will go late 1st round to a really good team with a specific need.



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Further



KVN got draft stock feedback last year that addressed specific concerns and development needs that would have impacted his draft experience in 2012.



If KVN shows improvement in those areas and does not disappoint at combines scouts are smart enough to realize SOS affects stats and 115 plays per game without rotation will gas anybody.



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Cougarbib wrote:
You need look no further than John Walsh to see what happens when gaudy stats bring hype and NFL Agents, and a player signs amidst hoopla and $ anticipation and leaves early with predictions to go early 1st round - possibly #1 pick



And then BAM



Combines. Oh - crap he is a slow runner - unexpected finding. BAM. Undrafted.



KVN either has it or he does not have it. But he has way more atrention this Year than last. More teams will give him a serious look. If he shows what they want to see in the combines he will go high. They already know he has the intangibles.



Hopefully, KVN will go late 1st round to a really good team with a specific need.



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John Walsh got paid.... signing a 1st round contract back (the CBA has made 1st round picks less valuable now than then) then is more money than most people make in their lifetimes. He was a bust but one that made a good business decision.

Wolverine wrote:

Some of you posters are going to run out of players to bash before the season is over.



Constructive criticism Can be a positive thing when assessing player performance, blanket statements such as KVN is lazy is ridiculous and just plain lazy posting.

+1. Bingo.

craigoscarson wrote:

You need look no further than John Walsh to see what happens when gaudy stats bring hype and NFL Agents, and a player signs amidst hoopla and $ anticipation and leaves early with predictions to go early 1st round - possibly #1 pick



And then BAM



Combines. Oh - crap he is a slow runner - unexpected finding. BAM. Undrafted.



KVN either has it or he does not have it. But he has way more atrention this Year than last. More teams will give him a serious look. If he shows what they want to see in the combines he will go high. They already know he has the intangibles.



Hopefully, KVN will go late 1st round to a really good team with a specific need.



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John Walsh got paid.... signing a 1st round contract back (the CBA has made 1st round picks less valuable now than then) then is more money than most people make in their lifetimes. He was a bust but one that made a good business decision.

How much did he get Craig? If you do not know - admit that. Then guess. I do not know. There, I admitted that. I will bet you that Tucanos lunch that he got so much less than $1M that it wasn't even in the same neighborhood. $250K or less is my wild guess.



And, how are you so sure that after staying for another record breaking year and serious Heisman consideration that he would not have gotten that deal or even better. He was an excellent college QB.



If he was making really big bucks, one might argue that an extra year of making really big bucks is worth more than legacy and the real life-time earnings off the field that cone from such legacy. An extra year of working for peanuts is worth just that - peanuts - unless he built some legacy doing that.



Read the novel Playing For Pizza - that guy did, fictionally of course, build a legacy and find the love of his life, playing for pizza and peanuts professionally in Italy.



Finally Craig - CBA? Wrong sport.



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Cougarbib wrote:

Cougarbib wrote:
You need look no further than John Walsh to see what happens when gaudy stats bring hype and NFL Agents, and a player signs amidst hoopla and $ anticipation and leaves early with predictions to go early 1st round - possibly #1 pick



And then BAM



Combines. Oh - crap he is a slow runner - unexpected finding. BAM. Undrafted.



KVN either has it or he does not have it. But he has way more atrention this Year than last. More teams will give him a serious look. If he shows what they want to see in the combines he will go high. They already know he has the intangibles.



Hopefully, KVN will go late 1st round to a really good team with a specific need.



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John Walsh got paid.... signing a 1st round contract back (the CBA has made 1st round picks less valuable now than then) then is more money than most people make in their lifetimes. He was a bust but one that made a good business decision.

How much did he get Craig? If you do not know - admit that. Then guess. I do not know. There, I admitted that. I will bet you that Tucanos lunch that he got so much less than $1M that it wasn't even in the same neighborhood. $250K or less is my wild guess.



And, how are you so sure that after staying for another record breaking year and serious Heisman consideration that he would not have gotten that deal or even better. He was an excellent college QB.



If he was making really big bucks, one might argue that an extra year of making really big bucks is worth more than legacy and the real life-time earnings off the field that cone from such legacy. An extra year of working for peanuts is worth just that - peanuts - unless he built some legacy doing that.



Read the novel Playing For Pizza - that guy did, fictionally of course, build a legacy and find the love of his life, playing for pizza and peanuts professionally in Italy.



Finally Craig - CBA? Wrong sport.



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CBA= collective bargaining agreement