KVN

I will only nitpick one thing from this game (well the season really) and that is KVN's lackluster and lazy play. He has missed probably 10+ tackles this season because he is arm tackling and diving at QB's instead of wrapping up and taking people down. Last year he was a sure thing playmaker, whereas this season I am at the point now where I expect him to miss the pretty much every sack/behind the line tackle.



WTF is wrong with this kid? If I am seeing this then you'd better believe the scouts are too. He is no longer a 1st round pick imo.



We need him to make these plays against Wisc and ND if we're going to beat them. I've counted 2 TD's scored in the last 2 games as a result of his bumbling behind the line of scrimmage (yes, at least he is getting there but he's leaving the secondary hung out to dry when he misses). Let's go!

He hasn't been busting his butt on some coverages either.



I think NFL scouts biggest problem with him is that he runs around blocks and in the NFL a linebacker has to be able to take on blocks. He's capable, but I agree, his effort has not been 100% at times... however those have all been wins. He wasn't responsible at all for the 2 losses.



We need a perfect KVN for Wisc.

KVN has been a non-factor now in 2 straight games... you'd think he'd be out there doing all he can to impress NFL scouts to improve his draft position... doesn't make any sense. He's playing as if he's disinterested... could he be hurt and is guarding?

I only have one issue with KVN - The Beard. What is with that. I thought he loved Bronco, so why embarrass Bronco by growing a beard.



KVN may feel snubbed by teammates in the team captain vote. IDK.



But, I bet KVN is giving his all even though being gang blocked. He has also quietly played through injuries in the past.



Sometimes your role is to draw 3 blockers, and then someone else does not get blocked.



Have uou watched how hard KVN is on himself when he breaks through a gang of blockers and just misses the sack?



Calling KVN lazy is asinine. Simply asinine.



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Cougarbib wrote:
I only have one issue with KVN - The Beard. What is with that. I thought he loved Bronco, so why embarrass Bronco by growing a beard.



KVN may feel snubbed by teammates in the team captain vote. IDK.



But, I bet KVN is giving his all even though being gang blocked. He has also quietly played through injuries in the past.



Sometimes your role is to draw 3 blockers, and then someone else does not get blocked.



Have uou watched how hard KVN is on himself when he breaks through a gang of blockers and just misses the sack?

Z

Calling KVN lazy is asinine. Simply asinine.



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I'm with You, Bib. All but the beard. Big deal. It will be gone soon enough.

My bet is that he has a little bit of a nagging injury. He does seem less effective than normal. Past few weeks he has overpursued. Last night he stayed home sometimes and I wondered if he got chewed out for overpursuiing. On the big running play, he stayed home on outside contain and the RB cut inside and he was off the the races.

KVN also was spying the qb at times and the qb ran the other way.

I would bet money we see a very active KVN at Wisc and won't see as many double teams.

Finally, I really think fans have the SDSU game performances in mind and expect that kind of magic every game.

Everyone takes plays off. It's just part of the game, and you notice it more when you focus on one guy. Next game try focusing on Fua and see how many plays he takes off.



1st Rd defensive talents especially take fewer risks their senior years it seems--an injury can cost them millions, and the school pays them room, board, and tuition, so the incentives to go all out aren't there as much. Your first three years you can come back from an injury, but your senior year is it once you get past game 3 (no medical redshirts available after that).



Hard to blame guys like KVN and Clowney for taking a bit off--it's a wise long-term investment, and it won't hurt their draft status. Won't help much either, but there's not much room for improvement.



As far as going through blockers, go back and watch Robertson Daniel's corner blitz against Houston. KVN takes the left tackle and shoves him through the entire Houston offensive line, effectively taking every lineman out of the play. He eliminated that tackle so cleanly he didn't even have to wipe. It was a ridiculous play by KVN, but no one noticed because Rob got the sack. KVN is still going first round to a 3-4 defensive team barring injury.

Some of you posters are going to run out of players to bash before the season is over. It has gone from Hill to Hoffman to the entire O-line to KVN and I am sure I have missed a few and I haven't even mentioned the coach bashing. Constructive criticism Can be a positive thing when assessing player performance, blanket statements such as KVN is lazy is ridiculous and just plain lazy posting.



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snoscythe wrote:
Everyone takes plays off. It's just part of the game, and you notice it more when you focus on one guy. Next game try focusing on Fua and see how many plays he takes off.



1st Rd defensive talents especially take fewer risks their senior years it seems--an injury can cost them millions, and the school pays them room, board, and tuition, so the incentives to go all out aren't there as much. Your first three years you can come back from an injury, but your senior year is it once you get past game 3 (no medical redshirts available after that).



Hard to blame guys like KVN and Clowney for taking a bit off--it's a wise long-term investment, and it won't hurt their draft status. Won't help much either, but there's not much room for improvement.



As far as going through blockers, go back and watch Robertson Daniel's corner blitz against Houston. KVN takes the left tackle and shoves him through the entire Houston offensive line, effectively taking every lineman out of the play. He eliminated that tackle so cleanly he didn't even have to wipe. It was a ridiculous play by KVN, but no one noticed because Rob got the sack. KVN is still going first round to a 3-4 defensive team barring injury.

There were crucial plays in the last few games where Kyle was on his knees or diving around olinemen to get to the feet of the QB and whiffed. The reason it's being brought up, is this is not the KVN of last year, the KVN of the San Diego State game and we need KVN playing like KVN for Wisconsin. There also have been 3 NFL players doing broadcasts that have mentioned that Kyle has to learn to go through blockers and not just around them and that scouts have mentioned that as a weakness.



To notice that Kyle is whiffing on tackles is no different than to mention that Taysom wasn't accurate to start the season. It's the truth. I'm not surprised but it is a pet peeve of mine that people rush to defend a player when the observation is truth. Kyle is missing a lot of tackles. Tackles that he normally makes. Taking plays off is not the right way to play football and I don't care that Fua is doing it, doesn't make it okay, and I don't care that it's about NFL money. The only thing that matters is winning games for BYU right now and our margin of victory was so razor thin last week that some of those missed tackles or coverages where he didn't go all out could have killed us. I don't see Sorenson or Bills taking plays off. We all love KVN, but to simply make an observation which is obvious to us all is hardly off point.

Another ridiculous play by KVN last week was when O'korn was sweeping left to get to the corner, and instead of sheding his block, KVN shoves the guy blocking him into O'Korn effectively forcing him out of bounds. Loved that play.



Yesterday, he was a half second away from having a sack fumble against BSU. He did knock the pass down and forced BSU to punt.

Wolverine wrote:
Some of you posters are going to run out of players to bash before the season is over. It has gone from Hill to Hoffman to the entire O-line to KVN and I am sure I have missed a few and I haven't even mentioned the coach bashing. Constructive criticism Can be a positive thing when assessing player performance, blanket statements such as KVN is lazy is ridiculous and just plain lazy posting.



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That is not at all what is happening here. It is an obvious problem in my opinion. How many sacks did you see KVN miss last season? The year before? I can think of at least 6 this year off the top of my head. That is a huge difference and is a sign of diminished ability. Whether it is laziness or due to injury (in fairness) I have no way of knowing, but he is not making the same impact we are used to. Tell me you haven't noticed this.



And to the other poster who brought it up, KVN has played plenty of great games besides the SDSU one fwiw.

Well. Since you are not sure why it is - yeah - go ahead and call him lazy.



Just be sure not to give him any benefit of the doubt



Injury

Gang Blocked

Stronger individual players opposing him

GFGH impacting him and the rest of the D



BYU gave up 20 points. Most of those came too little too late.



Celebrate our 5-0, 6-1, streak and 7-2 record with some quality wins.



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craigoscarson wrote:

Everyone takes plays off. It's just part of the game, and you notice it more when you focus on one guy. Next game try focusing on Fua and see how many plays he takes off.



1st Rd defensive talents especially take fewer risks their senior years it seems--an injury can cost them millions, and the school pays them room, board, and tuition, so the incentives to go all out aren't there as much. Your first three years you can come back from an injury, but your senior year is it once you get past game 3 (no medical redshirts available after that).



Hard to blame guys like KVN and Clowney for taking a bit off--it's a wise long-term investment, and it won't hurt their draft status. Won't help much either, but there's not much room for improvement.



As far as going through blockers, go back and watch Robertson Daniel's corner blitz against Houston. KVN takes the left tackle and shoves him through the entire Houston offensive line, effectively taking every lineman out of the play. He eliminated that tackle so cleanly he didn't even have to wipe. It was a ridiculous play by KVN, but no one noticed because Rob got the sack. KVN is still going first round to a 3-4 defensive team barring injury.

There were crucial plays in the last few games where Kyle was on his knees or diving around olinemen to get to the feet of the QB and whiffed. The reason it's being brought up, is this is not the KVN of last year, the KVN of the San Diego State game and we need KVN playing like KVN for Wisconsin. There also have been 3 NFL players doing broadcasts that have mentioned that Kyle has to learn to go through blockers and not just around them and that scouts have mentioned that as a weakness.



To notice that Kyle is whiffing on tackles is no different than to mention that Taysom wasn't accurate to start the season. It's the truth. I'm not surprised but it is a pet peeve of mine that people rush to defend a player when the observation is truth. Kyle is missing a lot of tackles. Tackles that he normally makes. Taking plays off is not the right way to play football and I don't care that Fua is doing it, doesn't make it okay, and I don't care that it's about NFL money. The only thing that matters is winning games for BYU right now and our margin of victory was so razor thin last week that some of those missed tackles or coverages where he didn't go all out could have killed us. I don't see Sorenson or Bills taking plays off. We all love KVN, but to simply make an observation which is obvious to us all is hardly off point.

To paraphrase, Craig is delighted that KVN has done enough to win 5 in a row, but still be healthy enough to play in the really big ROAD games coming up.



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This assault on KVN is an outrage. No, this is not a knee jerk reaction to the original post. I went back and watched the game again, and here is what I saw.



Uani Unga 15 tackles

Alani Fua 13 tackles

Spencer Hadley 12 tackles



Unga the middle linebacker and the outside linebackers opposite KVN had most of the tackles (yes, Hadley is playing OLB again it was noted on BYU TV's pregame show).



That means, Boise State made a very conscious effort to AVOID Van Noy. It is very hard to make a lot of tackles and plays if you are not near the ball. Even though, he had a key pass breakup on an early third down (almost a sack/forced fumble) that helped set the tone in the game. He also had a key fumble recovery because he was not being lazy, rather he was pursuing the play (one of the many plays that went away from him).



On that QB sneak on 4th and 1 at the BYU 12-yard line, Van Noy is the reason the Boise QB did not get the first down. He came off the edge and pulled him back just enough to stop his forward progress and give the rest of the defense in the middle to get enough surge to push back the line and prevent the first down. That was a VERY BIG stop for BYU. Boise State probably scores a TD to make it 10-7 if they convert that first down, and we have an entirely different ball game.



KVN had a solid game against Boise State.



No it was not perfect, but no where near deserving of a thread ripping him apart.



Don't get me wrong. I wish every game Van Noy stepped on the field and had a combination of his Tulsa and San Diego State bowl games, but it just doesn't happen, which is why those games are so special.



Houston he did have a problem taking down O'Korn, and it will probably cost him some $$$$ in the draft. Was it a result of laziness, or any lack of effort? I don't think so.



O'Korn is 6'4". KVN is not used to playing QBs that size, so his usual tactics didn't work as well. That is something he has to learn to adjust to, because the NFL has a lot of big QBs who won't go down as easily as he is used to.



You could even include running backs and receivers in that as well, which I think has been the NFL's big knock on Van Noy all along. He makes a lot of plays by being athletic enough to get to players he has no business tackling, but he makes a dive at their legs and takes them out. Truly athletic, but probably not going to work at the NFL because most players are bigger, faster, and stronger.



So, the Houston game may have dropped his draft stock, but not by much because it was just a reinforcement of what scouts already knew.



As for the season, Van Noy is on pace to have a career high for tackles, and at the half way point was on pace to equal his TFLs from last year and had already tied his career high for QBHs in a season. After 8 games, he now has a career high for pass breakups in a season.



KVN is getting it done this year. All he needs is a forced fumble and blocked punt to have a three peat on filling all the stat categories, which is unheard of.

KVN is ridiculous. I love that kid, he plays with tons of energy and anyone that calls him lazy is way off base. True, he has missed some tackles that he normally would have made in the past and I'm not sure why, but most of the time the fact that he's gotten himself in position to make the tackle in the first place shows how ridiculous the kid is, not that he's lazy for not wrapping up and finishing it off.





Also, beard schmeard.

Kelly Poppinga (sp?) was on this morning with DJ/PK and mentioned that KVN did play a little below his expectations the last 2 games. He mentioned that they've played nearly a full season of plays so far this year and the coaches needed to do a better job of rotating players. He also mentioned the high numbers of qb hurries and hits against Boise and the many things that don't show up on the stat sheet.



I'm not sure why some feel they need to down talk Vannoy and Hoffman. Anything those two give us this year is gravy after they passed up on the NFL to risk getting hurt in another year of college ball. Both are studs and giving a lot to the program.

This is not an assault. An assault implies a credible, forceful, taking down of an opponent or enemy. This is a whiny, mostly baseless, "nit-picking" by one or two irrelevant fans, who have exposed their diminutive "level of education."

Sadly, it grants very little benefit of the doubt for a proven and Iconic player, who, while not living up to their super-hero status and expectations, has now been castigated with such a label as "lazy", which at some level deserves not just the "lazy poster" as return fire, but has also clearly exposed their disloyal, hater, and malcontent nature. It would be like calling Ty Detmer lazy for having a less productive year his Senior year after peaking his Junior year.

KVN is mature enough to blow off such irrelevant chatter.

Now, maybe I'm being a little hypocritical in that I questioned Cody Hoffman earlier in the year. Maybe it was his injury. But, I think there was clearly a significant drop off in his productivity, effort, and attitude by comparison. He almost disappeared, even as a team leader. He was not engaged. He has since re-engaged. KVN has not lacked in any of those categories. He has made plays all year. And opponents have played away from the playmaker that he is. and those arrogant or foolish enough to go at him (USU) have usually paid for their ignorance.

He did look dejected at the end of the Utah game, almost as though it would be a repeat of last year where the D would have to produce points bc the offense was so inept. And he has overpursued a few plays and not provided contain, but there is a risk reward for his style of play and sometimes he has gotten burned. It's amazing what we do to our heroes when they don't continue to make superhuman, and in many cases elevated plays. Likewise, there can be a tendency to exonerate them from any of their faults. But I would much rather err on giving KVN the benefit of the doubt where ample evidence is present.

Kudos to those who have stood up against the bashing of one of the greatest players to ever donn BYU blue. Here is a player who has filled the stat sheet twice!***AMAZING*** and is close to doing it again!!***UNHEARD OF***. He is receiving more attention (of the physical variety) from opposing offenses trying to avoid another SDSU, and is playing more reps per game than ever before due to GFGH, and often closer together due to short offensive posessions. He just might be a little more fatigued, which just might cause a slight slight decrease in all around performance. A couple of failures in the most nuanced of his efforts might result. He might have been making money--a LOT of money-- missing an occasional tackle this year, and being lauded by all of his faithful fans from his college glory days, as the great KVN. Only one little thing happened this year to put him in position to receive all this obviously well deserved :gross: :sick: bashing...HE CAME BACK!!!

I have obviously not been reading the same comments some of the others have.



Where have you guys been reading bashing and assaulting on KVN?



I know a few people have said things like "one minor nitpick" and "a few plays" etc. I would think that hardly qualifies as assaulting?

You ever see that mole on Cindy Crawford? What a cow.

hawkwing wrote:
I have obviously not been reading the same comments some of the others have.



Where have you guys been reading bashing and assaulting on KVN?



I know a few people have said things like "one minor nitpick" and "a few plays" etc. I would think that hardly qualifies as assaulting?

I think part of the problem is calling it a "nit pick" which would seem small in nature, but then loaded as KVN is the only problem with the whole season and he is lazy and

Aside from the bait and switch in the post, its bad form and innacurate.