[Poll] Do you want Jake Heaps to succeed?

Gunk wrote:
Nope.



I want Bronco and Doman to be right on this one so everyone claiming they don't know how to coach top talent can eat crow.



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Well I don' t think many would argue that they don't know how, they do. Just not as good as elite coaches do. They are good coaches, not elite.

Good to see we have a 3 to 1 non-jerk to jerk ratio. ;)

jonnylingo wrote:

Nope.



I want Bronco and Doman to be right on this one so everyone claiming they don't know how to coach top talent can eat crow.



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Well I don' t think many would argue that they don't know how, they do. Just not as good as elite coaches do. They are good coaches, not elite.

That's BS. Elite coaches at "elite" schools have a roster full of 4 and 5 star recruits. They don't need to put any effort into catering to one particular recruit over another. If you're a 4/5 star recruit and suddently find yourself on a team full of 4/5 star recruits you learn real quick to work or don't play. One 4/5 recruit flames out, there's another in the wings. The coach doesn't have to do any "managing" of a particular player.



Honestly, I'd rather have a team of 3 star recruits united in working and playing hard than a team peppered with 5 star recruits that think they "deserve" more and the 3 star recruits are there to support them.

Gunk wrote:

Gunk wrote:
Nope.



I want Bronco and Doman to be right on this one so everyone claiming they don't know how to coach top talent can eat crow.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

Well I don' t think many would argue that they don't know how, they do. Just not as good as elite coaches do. They are good coaches, not elite.

That's BS. Elite coaches at "elite" schools have a roster full of 4 and 5 star recruits. They don't need to put any effort into catering to one particular recruit over another. If you're a 4/5 star recruit and suddently find yourself on a team full of 4/5 star recruits you learn real quick to work or don't play. One 4/5 recruit flames out, there's another in the wings. The coach doesn't have to do any "managing" of a particular player.



Honestly, I'd rather have a team of 3 star recruits united in working and playing hard than a team peppered with 5 star recruits that think they "deserve" more and the 3 star recruits are there to support them.

I consider Peterson and Patterson elite for doing with 3 star guys what the schools that have rosters full of 4 and 5 star guys haven't been able to do. Bronco has had the same talent or better and tcu and hasn't done much with it besides beat up crummy teams. He has had a few flashes of greatness, but his peers, fatterson, peterson, and even knitwitt have managed to do a lot more with that talent than bronco has. they are elite, bronco is not. Bronco is good.

jonnylingo wrote:

I consider Peterson and Patterson elite for doing with 3 star guys what the schools that have rosters full of 4 and 5 star guys haven't been able to do. Bronco has had the same talent or better and tcu and hasn't done much with it besides beat up crummy teams. He has had a few flashes of greatness, but his peers, fatterson, peterson, and even knitwitt have managed to do a lot more with that talent than bronco has. they are elite, bronco is not. Bronco is good.

Semi agree-with you.



Two years ago, maybe even two months ago, I'd put Kyle Whittingham in that category. I don't think I would anymore. He's now had two seasons in which his team has looked incredible in half their games and totally beatable in their other half. Elite coaches don't have season-ending sleepwalks like he did in 2010. Elite coaches don't lose to 2-loss teams like he did.



While Patterson's recruiting classes may be on par with ours, I do think he has access to better "raw athletes" than we do. I don't think his blueprint of "take fast offensive dudes, make them gain 40 points, put them on defense" could work at BYU.



I do wish we could do what Petersen does, though. That seems within the realm of possibility for BYU. But wishing we had a Petersen or a Patterson feels like wishing we had a Vince Lombardi or a Chuck Noll - there are only a few guys every generation with that kind of coaching ability.



I do get the frustration, though - you look at Bronco's tenure season by season, and you ask yourself the question, "can this program eventually run the table?" My gut reaction would be "they appear capable," but every year it seems like some new obstacle pops up.

Dcr36 wrote:
Elite coaches don't lose to 2-loss teams like he did.

I can think of plenty of elite coaches who lose to 2-loss teams. :crazy:

jonnylingo wrote:
I consider Peterson and Patterson elite for doing with 3 star guys what the schools that have rosters full of 4 and 5 star guys haven't been able to do. Bronco has had the same talent or better and tcu and hasn't done much with it besides beat up crummy teams. He has had a few flashes of greatness, but his peers, fatterson, peterson, and even knitwitt have managed to do a lot more with that talent than bronco has. they are elite, bronco is not. Bronco is good.

What 5 star recruit(s) have Peterson/Patterson managed better than BYU?



Peterson/Patterson get the most out of 3 star recruits. But they don't possess any secret tricks or abilities to manage 5 star recruits (they don't even get 5 star recruits).



Getting the most out of the players you have compared to dealing with incoming freshmen that have personal marketing departments is different. I’ll wager Bronco would have gotten more out of Heaps if Heaps were a 3 star recruit and came in with the same expectations/ego as every other player on the team.



Bronco/Doman do a better than average job of getting the most out of 3 star recruits. However, their track record with 5 star recruits is on par with the other "elite" coaches you mention. Again, the notion Bronco/Doman are incapable of managing top talent is completely false.



As far as I am aware, Peterson/Patterson don't make any exceptions for players. Every player on their teams must earn their spots. That's how you get the most out of people.



It never works to give someone a raise before they've earned it. Companies time and time again throw cash at disgruntled employees in hopes of retaining them. It never works. The employees always leave and in the end the company wasted time and money. BYU caught a break and the disgruntled employee left.



Take a step back and really ask yourself what is best for BYU football.



1) Heaps quitting only to go off and win a Heisman elsewhere, sending the message to future recruits that Bronco can't coach top talent.



or



2) Heaps quitting and going off to have an average at best career elsewhere, leaving intact the perception Bronco knows what he's doing.



It's nothing personal on my end. I could really care less what happens to Heaps. I do care what happens to BYU football and the best thing for BYU football is for Heaps to continue on his current path of QB ineptitude.

My name is Cougarclaw and I approve Gunk's message.

snoscythe wrote:

Elite coaches don't lose to 2-loss teams like he did.

I can think of plenty of elite coaches who lose to 2-loss teams. :crazy:

Oops. 2-WIN teams, obviously. :blush:

jonnylingo wrote:

jonnylingo wrote:

Nope.



I want Bronco and Doman to be right on this one so everyone claiming they don't know how to coach top talent can eat crow.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

Well I don' t think many would argue that they don't know how, they do. Just not as good as elite coaches do. They are good coaches, not elite.

That's BS. Elite coaches at "elite" schools have a roster full of 4 and 5 star recruits. They don't need to put any effort into catering to one particular recruit over another. If you're a 4/5 star recruit and suddently find yourself on a team full of 4/5 star recruits you learn real quick to work or don't play. One 4/5 recruit flames out, there's another in the wings. The coach doesn't have to do any "managing" of a particular player.



Honestly, I'd rather have a team of 3 star recruits united in working and playing hard than a team peppered with 5 star recruits that think they "deserve" more and the 3 star recruits are there to support them.

I consider Peterson and Patterson elite for doing with 3 star guys what the schools that have rosters full of 4 and 5 star guys haven't been able to do. Bronco has had the same talent or better and tcu and hasn't done much with it besides beat up crummy teams. He has had a few flashes of greatness, but his peers, fatterson, peterson, and even knitwitt have managed to do a lot more with that talent than bronco has. they are elite, bronco is not. Bronco is good.

Bronco has NOT had the same talent that any of those coaches named have had. don't recite recruiting rankings because that doesn't fly. You can't tell me that BYU has had even close to the same team speed that TCU has had over the last few years. utah had a 12-0 team in 2004 and had 2 great recruiting years under meyer that whitt took over. BYU had just undergone a huge scandal and had 5 defensive players kicked off the team from that. Then a few more left the team the next year when Bronco took over. BYU is JUST getting caught up on filling those holes that 2004 caused with its recruiting. This is the first year we have had ANY db depth. I couldn't disagree with your assesment of how Bronco has handled our talent. He has done with walk on's what you are giving credit to those other coaches when they did it with legit recruited talent.