Is the 136 PER...

unrealistic? Is this number too much to expect? Is it asking too much of our starting QB?



Personally, I think it's a reasonable and acceptable level of expectation.

It depends on Oline play, and WRs catching the ball.



If Oline is providing 4 + secs of protection a play, and wr's are catching anything they can touch with two hands, then - no, it is not.



With terrible Oline play, I think it is pretty unattainable. And it is very unattainable if receivers aren't catching the ball.



So, I guess my answer to each question is: Maybe, but maybe not.

We should be able to factor in the fact that Beck and Hall had Pitta, Harline, Collie, Unga, Brown, Mike Reed, Todd Watkins, etc .... around them. Heaps has no one that has proven that they can make a play around him, not the receivers, not the running backs, not the tight ends, and certainly not the line. Its tough for a true sophmore QB to play at a high high level when he doesn't have a great receiver, tight end, running game, or line to help him out. He has been forced to try to do everything, I blame the coaches for this, and he can't do it, he just can't. It's not realistic to think he can. He needs to play better, but I think we need to temper our expectations a bit. Having a great tight end, a decent o-line, and a functional running game can make all the difference. He has played worse than we thought, but other than the UCF game I think he has been better than people are making it out to be on this board.

kfilly20 wrote:
We should be able to factor in the fact that Beck and Hall had Pitta, Harline, Collie, Unga, Brown, Mike Reed, Todd Watkins, etc .... around them. Heaps has no one that has proven that they can make a play around him, not the receivers, not the running backs, not the tight ends, and certainly not the line. Its tough for a true sophmore QB to play at a high high level when he doesn't have a great receiver, tight end, running game, or line to help him out.

What about prior "average" BYU QB's like Feterik and Walsh? Their lowest single season PERs were 143 (Walsh) and 138 (Feterik) and they were throwing to possession receivers like Drage, Matsuzaki, Doman, Nowatzke, Horton, and Hooks.



To me, the expectation of 136 is low. I expect a BYU QB to be at least 145, especially one as hyped as Heaps.

To be fair we should take the other QB's PER against good teams, BYU just played 3 good teams, and ole miss, who isn't as bad as most MWC teams we usually play.Beck and Hall generally didnt play very well against good teams, with a few exceptions obviously. At the end of the year we can look at his cumulative PER and get a fair picture.

kfilly20 wrote:
To be fair we should take the other QB's PER against good teams, BYU just played 3 good teams, and ole miss, who isn't as bad as most MWC teams we usually play.Beck and Hall generally didnt play very well against good teams, with a few exceptions obviously. At the end of the year we can look at his cumulative PER and get a fair picture.

I agree with this

4+ seconds of protection from your O-line?? Sorry dude, but that's the dumbest thing I've read on the internet this week. You'd have to be fielding a hall of famer at each position to get there.



Give it a rest man. Let me guess--that's because receivers need 2 seconds to break bump coverage?



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

snoscythe wrote:
4+ seconds of protection from your O-line?? Sorry dude, but that's the dumbest thing I've read on the internet this week. You'd have to be fielding a hall of famer at each position to get there.



Give it a rest man. Let me guess--that's because receivers need 2 seconds to break bump coverage?



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

Watch the U game again. When Wynn had the ball. Watch his protection - 'NUFF said.



So the Utes have a hall of famer at every position? Sweet for them.

p.s. I'm actually re-watching the U game, in the second half there hasn't been a passing play where Wynn hasn't had 4 seconds to throw (he has had the ball out at 3 on most plays, but under no pressure, so he would have 4 if he wanted/needed it)



He had almost 7 seconds on the throw that Eason misjudged for a TD.



So by your standards the :utard: lineman can start looking for those invites in the mail, yes?

136 is a minimum standard, and any QB who performs under that needs to get better. Anyone making excuses for them is merely holding them back by accepting less than their best.



BYU QBs have had worse receivers than we have now. Much worse. They've also had much worse lines. But they've all stepped up and performed or we've found someone else who did.



BYU does not have the worst receivers and line in college football, but we have almost the worst PER in the country! We have wide open receivers being over and under thrown by at least 7 yards every single game.

Hawkwing wrote:
BYU does not have the worst receivers and line in college football, but we have almost the worst PER in the country! We have wide open receivers being over and under thrown by at least 7 yards every single game.

I disagree. I think that we have one of the worst offensive lines in college football. Or at least, they are performing like one of the worst. They are currently ranked 113 out of 120 in rushing in the NCAA.



Our rushing totals (almost entirely an offensive line statistic) over 4 games:



108 carries for 272 yards. That is an average of 2.5 a carry. Our long is 21. We have 2 rushing TD's in 4 games. (Both of those coming last game).



91 yards vs Ole Miss

43 yards vs Texas

11 yards vs. Utah

127 yds vs UCF

BlueIsBetter wrote:
I disagree. I think that we have one of the worst offensive lines in college football. Or at least, they are performing like one of the worst.

And if I say the exact same thing:



I think we have one of the worst quarterbacks in college football. Or at least, he is performing like one of the worst.



You know if our quarterback played better they'd look like a better offensive line.



Yet again, you are essentially saying that Jake is not responsible for his play either good or poor. Because by your own logic the only reasons he is struggling is because of his teammates. Therefore, he can't play better either, just his teammates. Jake is simply a non-factor in your mind. His performance is not based on his abilities or execution of the plays, just his teammates. They and they alone hold the key to Jake playing better.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
Our rushing totals (almost entirely an offensive line statistic) over 4 games:



108 carries for 272 yards. That is an average of 2.5 a carry. Our long is 21. We have 2 rushing TD's in 4 games. (Both of those coming last game).



91 yards vs Ole Miss

43 yards vs Texas

11 yards vs. Utah

127 yds vs UCF

Yep, clearly our passing game is completely based on the success of our rushing game.

Ole Miss PER: 116.32

Texas PER: 98.49

Utah PER: 107.34

UCF PER: 71.92



In our best rushing game, in the game we scored the most touchdowns, we had our worst passing game. Your conclusions are illogical. UCF should have been our best throwing game.

SpiffCoug wrote:
Yet again, you are essentially saying that Jake is not responsible for his play either good or poor. Because by your own logic the only reasons he is struggling is because of his teammates. Therefore, he can't play better either, just his teammates. Jake is simply a non-factor in your mind. His performance is not based on his abilities or execution of the plays, just his teammates. They and they alone hold the key to Jake playing better.

Yet again, you jump to extremes and a straw man's argument, replacing what I have said on record with "You are saying Jake is not responsible for his own play, and Jake is playing fine, just everyone else isn't."



Here is an example of my arguments (found on one of the 3 Heaps Sucks threads)

I have never said that good or great or fantastic qb play WOULD NOT make a difference to the entire team.



I have said, that there are many cogs in a watch, and unfortunately when one stops working properly they all fail, one after the other.



BYU has about 6 major cogs not working right now, one of which is Jake Heaps.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

BYU does not have the worst receivers and line in college football, but we have almost the worst PER in the country! We have wide open receivers being over and under thrown by at least 7 yards every single game.

I disagree. I think that we have one of the worst offensive lines in college football. Or at least, they are performing like one of the worst. They are currently ranked 113 out of 120 in rushing in the NCAA.



Our rushing totals (almost entirely an offensive line statistic) over 4 games:



108 carries for 272 yards. That is an average of 2.5 a carry. Our long is 21. We have 2 rushing TD's in 4 games. (Both of those coming last game).



91 yards vs Ole Miss

43 yards vs Texas

11 yards vs. Utah

127 yds vs UCF

That has more to do with Doman's mismanagement of the running game, seeing as how JJ DiLuigi is averaging 4.1 yards a carry, and Kariya 3.5 yards. Doman simply forgot to call a run in the 2nd half of the Utah and Texas games.

SpiffCoug wrote:





In our best rushing game, in the game we scored the most touchdowns, we had our worst passing game. Your conclusions are illogical. UCF should have been our best throwing game.

Because we actually RAN for touchdowns, instead of having to throw for them. Weird, that taking TDs away from the formula would make the PER go down :roll:

kfilly20 wrote:
We should be able to factor in the fact that Beck and Hall had Pitta, Harline, Collie, Unga, Brown, Mike Reed, Todd Watkins, etc .... around them. Heaps has no one that has proven that they can make a play around him, not the receivers, not the running backs, not the tight ends, and certainly not the line. Its tough for a true sophmore QB to play at a high high level when he doesn't have a great receiver, tight end, running game, or line to help him out. He has been forced to try to do everything, I blame the coaches for this, and he can't do it, he just can't. It's not realistic to think he can. He needs to play better, but I think we need to temper our expectations a bit. Having a great tight end, a decent o-line, and a functional running game can make all the difference. He has played worse than we thought, but other than the UCF game I think he has been better than people are making it out to be on this board.

Heaps has missed enough wide open touchdown passes (two this past game alone) that he can't hide behind this argument. Pitta, Harline, Collie, Watkins etc. wouldn't be able to catch the ball thrown 10 yards over their heads or out of bounds either

I think that a 136 per is perfectly reasonable but you guys also have to give things time to progress. We have a redshirt sophomore as one reciever and a redshirt Freshman at the other side. One of our running backs is a true sophomore and our QB is a true sophomore. Our Ocoordinator is a rookie who has never called plays before. We had a lot of returning players this year but our team is still young with a young coach. It is going to take time. That is why I have been defending heaps this year when I was criticizing him last year. Walsh and Feterick both had established coaches under established systems with more experienced players around them. If our running game comes around and the line starts protecting Heaps better and the play calling improves and Heaps still can't execute at a high level, I will be alongside the rest of you calling for a change.

hawkwing wrote:

Hawkwing wrote:
BYU does not have the worst receivers and line in college football, but we have almost the worst PER in the country! We have wide open receivers being over and under thrown by at least 7 yards every single game.

I disagree. I think that we have one of the worst offensive lines in college football. Or at least, they are performing like one of the worst. They are currently ranked 113 out of 120 in rushing in the NCAA.



Our rushing totals (almost entirely an offensive line statistic) over 4 games:



108 carries for 272 yards. That is an average of 2.5 a carry. Our long is 21. We have 2 rushing TD's in 4 games. (Both of those coming last game).



91 yards vs Ole Miss

43 yards vs Texas

11 yards vs. Utah

127 yds vs UCF

That has more to do with Doman's mismanagement of the running game, seeing as how JJ DiLuigi is averaging 4.1 yards a carry, and Kariya 3.5 yards. Doman simply forgot to call a run in the 2nd half of the Utah and Texas games.

Of the teams that have worse lines than BYU's their ESPN QB Ratings are:



Az - 154.9

Memphis - 114.9

Tenn - 167.1

Idaho - 120.9

Miami (OH) - 113.1

Florida Atlantic - 91.9



BYU's is 100.5



So, not only does BYU have the 6th worst offensive line, they have the 2nd worst QB of those.



It also means that of our remaining schedule we can only safely assume that we are better than 1 team.

BlueIsBetter, which did you vote for? I'm curious as to what you feel/think is an reasonable expectation.



Oh and adding two TDs and 22 yards to BYU's passing game raises the PER all the way up to 96.27.