Pharisees & Saduceeses

Look Bronco has every right to call boosters whatever name he chooses, particularily when it fits at least some. BUT just as the Church has the right to call other denominations abominable, that does not mean we should, even when true. AND the Church does not, wisely so. When what YOU say becomes THE issue du jour, you have done wrong in message delivery. Bronco blew it and should say so. BUT the offended folk need to prove they are not in fact P&S and forgive and move on.



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Bronco needs to learn not to engage with boosters and fans and their criticisms of his team.



Fans and boosters have legitimate concerns about the management and execution of the football team. They are not always wrong (see firing DC Hill last year).



Bronco needs a certain amount of ego as a head coach, but he also needs to know that he is not all-knowing, all-powerful, and always right. Humility with regards to the horrible offensive execution over this season and the last 6 quarters especially is something that would be very wise for a coach who views his job as representing the church.



Pride does not work out that well in the church.....

I think you meant Bronco needs to clarify and not apologize.

Its those with Pharisetical tendencies that hAVE TAKEN THIS PERSONALLY.

WHAT A JOKE. Get over it. Some of you have emotional constipation. I would feel the same way as Bronco: ITS LIKE!!! LIKE or AS means SIMILAR not "exactly".



Have any of you sat in some of those freakin luncheons? Good hell. Its a total joke when you have some 70 year old whose knitting a blanket or turning up his hearing aid and whines "why dont you pass the ball more?" "Why dont you kick the punts farther? How come you went for it on 4th down? Why arent you winning a NC? How come you let that Dlineman through? How come JJ fumbled the ball? How come? How come? How come?

Yes, he should have some accountability--which he gives and GAVE a FULL MEA CULPA this past week. Yes he should take a page from LaVell and just not let there idiot P's and S's get to him.

BUt some of you are as bad as Gordon Monson who totally epitomizes a Pharisee. You think you are smarter and when you are called out as not being smart you whine till the cows come home. Its disgusting and pathetic!!

BoiseBYU wrote:
Look Bronco has every right to call boosters whatever name he chooses, particularily when it fits at least some. BUT just as the Church has the right to call other denominations abominable, that does not mean we should, even when true. AND the Church does not, wisely so. When what YOU say becomes THE issue du jour, you have done wrong in message delivery. Bronco blew it and should say so. BUT the offended folk need to prove they are not in fact P&S and forgive and move on.



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You are right and wrong.



You are right when you say that he shouldn't have said it. You are right when you say that anyone offended needs to forgive and move on.



You are wrong when you say that those offended need to prove they aren't P&S. That is none of Bronco's business and he has no right or authority to call them that. It is wrong in every way and should never have been said. I am not in any way offended by it. I am appalled and disgusted that he would us a reference he has no right or authority to use.



This isn't about who was offended and who wasn't. It is about saying something that shouldn't have been said. It should never have been said. Period.

dmcougar wrote:
I think you meant Bronco needs to clarify and not apologize.

Its those with Pharisetical tendencies that hAVE TAKEN THIS PERSONALLY.

WHAT A JOKE. Get over it. Some of you have emotional constipation. I would feel the same way as Bronco: ITS LIKE!!! LIKE or AS means SIMILAR not "exactly".



Have any of you sat in some of those freakin luncheons? Good hell. Its a total joke when you have some 70 year old whose knitting a blanket or turning up his hearing aid and whines "why dont you pass the ball more?" "Why dont you kick the punts farther? How come you went for it on 4th down? Why arent you winning a NC? How come you let that Dlineman through? How come JJ fumbled the ball? How come? How come? How come?

Yes, he should have some accountability--which he gives and GAVE a FULL MEA CULPA this past week. Yes he should take a page from LaVell and just not let there idiot P's and S's get to him.

BUt some of you are as bad as Gordon Monson who totally epitomizes a Pharisee. You think you are smarter and when you are called out as not being smart you whine till the cows come home. Its disgusting and pathetic!!

You are completely missing the point. Step back and look at what the statement is. There is only one person who has ever lived that has the authority to say what he said.

Is there a place where this quote is written or where I can find audio? I know nothing about this.

I really think that Bronco was just trying to make a joke, and I'll believe that until I hear some audio on it. Time to move on. I don't know why this was brought up again.

pjmuli wrote:
Is there a place where this quote is written or where I can find audio? I know nothing about this.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700179904/Y-coach-tells-fireside-of-bigger-mission.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

declocoug wrote:
I really think that Bronco was just trying to make a joke, and I'll believe that until I hear some audio on it. Time to move on. I don't know why this was brought up again.

If true, it is the worst possible joke, in the worst possible forum of all time. It wasn't a joke. No possible way it was a joke. At least from those that were there.

I mentioned this in another thread, but if Bronco doesn't want to deal with comments from the peanut gallery then he shouldn't give them a mic. If you give them the opportunity to ask questions, don't get rattled when the "stupid" questions come your way. Criticizing the uninformed, especially those with deep pockets, when you gave them a forum to speak makes you look bad.



These are boosters. Although they may be ignorant, their money helps fund the team and if I am not mistaken it's money from boosters that pays for players' scholarships. The boosters know this. Bronco knows this. More patience should be allotted to them.



I understand Bronco's frustration, but football is a game dependent on fan support and in the college realm the support of boosters as well. I don't have much tolerance for criticism of fans from someone who's entire livelihood revolves around the support of fans. No fans. No football. Albeit how true it is, how mild it is, or how out of context it's taken, no amount of frustration and critique of fans should come out of the mouth of a head coach.

declocoug wrote:
I really think that Bronco was just trying to make a joke, and I'll believe that until I hear some audio on it. Time to move on. I don't know why this was brought up again.

I hope you're right and until I hear audio I'll give Bronco the benefit of the doubt. But something tells me Bronco isn't the type to try and jest with a reference to those responsible for Christ's death.

northerncougar wrote:

I think you meant Bronco needs to clarify and not apologize.

Its those with Pharisetical tendencies that hAVE TAKEN THIS PERSONALLY.

WHAT A JOKE. Get over it. Some of you have emotional constipation. I would feel the same way as Bronco: ITS LIKE!!! LIKE or AS means SIMILAR not "exactly".



Have any of you sat in some of those freakin luncheons? Good hell. Its a total joke when you have some 70 year old whose knitting a blanket or turning up his hearing aid and whines "why dont you pass the ball more?" "Why dont you kick the punts farther? How come you went for it on 4th down? Why arent you winning a NC? How come you let that Dlineman through? How come JJ fumbled the ball? How come? How come? How come?

Yes, he should have some accountability--which he gives and GAVE a FULL MEA CULPA this past week. Yes he should take a page from LaVell and just not let there idiot P's and S's get to him.

BUt some of you are as bad as Gordon Monson who totally epitomizes a Pharisee. You think you are smarter and when you are called out as not being smart you whine till the cows come home. Its disgusting and pathetic!!

You are completely missing the point. Step back and look at what the statement is. There is only one person who has ever lived that has the authority to say what he said.

Thanks for clarifying that? I forget my New Testament 101. Good gravy.



So the options (suppositions some for you are using to make your point)are--

1. Bronco forgets that he is a college football coach in the spotlight and thinks he's the Savior of the World? hmmmmm.

or

2. He just is being totally strategic and or arrogant so as to allienate his fan and booster base?

or

3. He needs to be called out by his Bishop and the Brethren for sacrilegiously using a reference only the Savior could use?

or

4. He's directly mocking the Savior's experience by comparing it to his own?



Give me a sanctimonious break you hypocrites "who are inwardly full of dead men's bones."



Some of you are doing exactly what Bronco suggested. Trapping him in his words--a classic tool of the P and S crowd.



I will say again, that some of you who think your widow's mite matters in this case are just plain delusional yourselves.

Gunk wrote:

I really think that Bronco was just trying to make a joke, and I'll believe that until I hear some audio on it. Time to move on. I don't know why this was brought up again.

I hope you're right and until I hear audio I'll give Bronco the benefit of the doubt. But something tells me Bronco isn't the type to try and jest with a reference to those responsible for Christ's death.

Except that wasn't their only mission. They were just a group of people who had many quirks, just like our fans. Sure, some of them wanted to see Christ dead, and unfortunately that's all we associate the whole group with now. I think Bronco just knows his NT history a little better than most fans so there is a disconnect here.

declocoug wrote:

declocoug wrote:
I really think that Bronco was just trying to make a joke, and I'll believe that until I hear some audio on it. Time to move on. I don't know why this was brought up again.

I hope you're right and until I hear audio I'll give Bronco the benefit of the doubt. But something tells me Bronco isn't the type to try and jest with a reference to those responsible for Christ's death.

Except that wasn't their only mission. They were just a group of people who had many quirks, just like our fans. Sure, some of them wanted to see Christ dead, and unfortunately that's all we associate the whole group with now. I think Bronco just knows his NT history a little better than most fans so there is a disconnect here.

True, but the connotation of Sadducee and Pharisees is not a good one. Christ certainly didn't have a problem lumping them all together when he called them a generation of vipers. There's a lot of people in a single generation.



I'm sure that room was full of active, temple-worthy LDS saints. Many of which probably are or were part of bishoprics, stake presidencies, relief society presidencies, mission presidents, etc. and Bronco just insinuated they were Sadducee and Pharisees. Poor move.



I don't show up to a meeting of German investors and make a comment, even in jest, that some of them are behaving like Nazis whether it's deserved or not.



Those "offended" need to get over it. One of my favorite quotes from Brigham Young is that it's worse to take offense than it is to offend. My other favorite, though it no longer applies, is that wooing women is an appropriate Sunday activity.

declocoug wrote:
I really think that Bronco was just trying to make a joke, and I'll believe that until I hear some audio on it. Time to move on. I don't know why this was brought up again.

Bronco's ability to make a good joke is rivaled by his ability/willingness to make in-game adjustments.

:roll:

Puh-leeze!

Here's the "offending" quote:

"As I stood in front of the Cougar Club (Thursday), it felt like I was in front of the Pharisees and the Sadducees," he said. "Sometimes what play is called on third-and-20 is more important (to them) than what we're trying to do here. My hope is that you support us with your heart as you try to find what's most important in life and see the bigger picture, and join us in that purpose."



Now I can see how there's room for some to take offense if they choose to. But really, why would you? Look, Bronco's a pretty literary guy, and he spends a lot of time in the scriptures. He didn't say it was like standing in front of the Sanhedrin, the governing body which tried and condemned Christ, he said it was like being in front of the P's and S's, a very large religious movement with a bent towards focusing on detail while missing the big picture. I don't think it's a bad allusion at all. Impolitic, perhaps, but as Robert Frost said, every allusion taken to an extreme (or too far) breaks down.



So take it for its likely intent--that he felt like he was being grilled by folks who cared more about minutia than mission. And that's it.

If putting up a bad team and having bad execution and bad coaching serves the "mission" of BYU football, then let's kill the program right now.....



Becoming a laughingstock is not worth the effort....

I finally decided to read this thread. When I finished, I just said, "I think I'll wash my hands of this mess."

1967cougar wrote:
I finally decided to read this thread. When I finished, I just said, "I think I'll wash my hands of this mess."

Blasphemy! You're not allowed to make such Messianic allusions!



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88Coug wrote:
If putting up a bad team and having bad execution and bad coaching serves the "mission" of BYU football, then let's kill the program right now.....



Becoming a laughingstock is not worth the effort....

Sure, I think that's a reasonable question to ask. But it hasn't come to that, yet, and that's an altogether different topic than trying to roast a coach while misinterpreting (in my view) something he said.