Loyal, Strong and True...

Unless we get spanked by the U...



These are my thoughts. Feel free to ridicule, disagree with and disparage me. If you feel like you're being patronized, please feel free to patronize me right back. Send me a PM telling me I'm a complete [redacted] who needs to get his [redacted] head out of his own [redacted], and I just don't understand how much the success of BYU Football means to you and how much our current personnel are holding us back.



Or just ignore me. Feel free to stop reading because this looks like it's going to be a long post.



I know I'm probably in the smallest of minorities here, but I am the blue-goggledest of fans. So I can't relate very well to the more pessimistic of you. I can't tell you when to complain and/or abandon hope and when not to, I'm just telling you what works for me. And don't think I'm calling anyone fair-weather, because Saturday's game was worse than "bad weather." It was like a hurricane of locusts mixed with an earthquake. And that's precisely why, personally, I was able to get over Saturday's game so easily; because it was like nothing I'd ever seen from us or from the Utes. For whatever reason, Bronco's teams have always struggled more than expected against Kyle's, and Saturday's game manifested that to the nth degree. By the last fumble returned for a touchdown, I was just shaking my head and laughing, because the game had moved beyond real life into the video game realm.



Are there serious problems that need to be fixed on this team? Absolutely. Did both the players and coaches fail terribly on Saturday? Absolutely. Do the fans have every right to be pissed off? Absolutely. But do I have faith in the team to get it right on Friday, and every week afterward? Absolutely.



It's one thing to say Doman and Heaps, et al. have had a crappy start to the season. That's undeniable. It's another thing, though, to say that not only do they suck now, but they always have and always will. And it's funny to read people complain about Bronco's thin skin being one of his biggest weaknesses, while acting horrified at the "Pharisees/Sadduccees" quote. The irony's so thick you can cut it with a pot calling a kettle black.



I'm not half as embarrassed by the team's performance on Saturday as I am at the fans who have given up the rest of the season as lost (i.e. "There's no way we're making a bowl game"), and have given up on our current players and coaches.



I know it's a joke on another thread, but I am a proud member of the church of the 11-2 season. And if we lose next week, I'll be a proud member of the church of the 10-3 season, and so on. And if I'm wrong, and we lose every game here on out, so what? It's more enjoyable to me to invest in optimism and be disappointed than to invest in pessimism and be proven right.



I'm not expecting this post to change anyone's mind or anything; I just wanted to get my opinion out there, because I wasn't seeing it reflected by many, if anyone else at all.



I don't cheer for BYU and throw my (usually non-monetary) support behind the coaches and players because they have won in the past, are winning now, or are expected to win in the future. Even when I feel the need to criticize them, I cheer for them and always believe we'll get 'em next time. Because they're my team.



Rah! Rah! Rah, rah rah!



:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

Great post. I'm still proud to be a BYU fan as well. Maybe not as optimistic about it as you though.

Well done sir! I wore my BYU hat to work today too. I think I will keep doing so until we have a winning record!



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The funny thing is, the point of view you're advocating is simultaneously the most unreasonable perspective possible AND the only reasonable perspective. Even if you've got a hundredth of a percent chance of winning, you still believe in that tiny chance. If not, why bother to show up?



I get mad at Heaps et al. sometimes for "reading his own press clippings," but what we saw in that second half wasn't a team drunk on self-confidence. It was a team that stopped believing they could win. I don't want them to give up mid-game, or mid-season. I want them to go out on the field believing that, with the right strategy and execution, they can win against any team, any given Saturday. And if I want them to believe that, the best that I can do as a fan is believe in them too.



That said, I wouldn't put any money on the TCU game. ;)

Yndian speakum wise words.

Yndian wrote:
It's one thing to say Doman and Heaps, et al. have had a crappy start to the season. That's undeniable. It's another thing, though, to say that not only do they suck now, but they always have and always will.

In the case of Doman, he has always sucked as an offensive coordinator. Every game for which he has been the OC has been awful and truly sucky.



Heaps been quite sucky in his career thus far. Except for a five game stretch last year, which is seeming more unlike the norm with each passing game.



I don't think I've read anyone say they will always suck. Just that the currently do.

Dcr36 wrote:
The funny thing is, the point of view you're advocating is simultaneously the most unreasonable perspective possible AND the only reasonable perspective. Even if you've got a hundredth of a percent chance of winning, you still believe in that tiny chance. If not, why bother to show up?



I get mad at Heaps et al. sometimes for "reading his own press clippings," but what we saw in that second half wasn't a team drunk on self-confidence. It was a team that stopped believing they could win. I don't want them to give up mid-game, or mid-season. I want them to go out on the field believing that, with the right strategy and execution, they can win against any team, any given Saturday. And if I want them to believe that, the best that I can do as a fan is believe in them too.



That said, I wouldn't put any money on the TCU game. ;)

I don't think I'd want to be one of the players facing the wrath of the coaches this week. No matter what happens in games going forward this season, I don't think we'll see them just appear to give up the way they did on Saturday. Yes, I'll continue to support and expect excellence. I just take longer to get back on the boards after a loss like that!

SpiffCoug wrote:

It's one thing to say Doman and Heaps, et al. have had a crappy start to the season. That's undeniable. It's another thing, though, to say that not only do they suck now, but they always have and always will.

In the case of Doman, he has always sucked as an offensive coordinator. Every game for which he has been the OC has been awful and truly sucky.



Heaps been quite sucky in his career thus far. Except for a five game stretch last year, which is seeming more unlike the norm with each passing game.



I don't think I've read anyone say they will always suck. Just that the currently do.

Your attitude currently sucks 8)

Yndian wrote:
It's one thing to say Doman and Heaps, et al. have had a crappy start to the season. That's undeniable. It's another thing, though, to say that not only do they suck now, but they always have and always will. And it's funny to read people complain about Bronco's thin skin being one of his biggest weaknesses, while acting horrified at the "Pharisees/Sadduccees" quote. The irony's so thick you can cut it with a pot calling a kettle black.

I take issue with only this comment above. That you would put quotes around Pharisees/Sadducees shows that you don't take it seriously. What Bronco said on Friday night at the fireside was the most inappropriate, appalling and embarrassing thing that has come out of BYU athletics since I started there as a student in 1989. There is no excuse for it, no spin that you can put on it to justify his comments. It was wrong and he needs to offer a public apology.



If you can't see that, I challenge you to step back and objectively look at what his statement means. Forget his intent, as I don't believe his intent was that, but that doesn't matter. He was wrong and it is unbelievable that he said it.

yep, thats what they (P's and S's) said as well.

Did you miss Roger Reed's comments? guess so.

dmcougar wrote:
yep, thats what they (P's and S's) said as well.

Did you miss Roger Reed's comments? guess so.

Roger Reid's comments were stupid but don't come even close to Bronco's. Not even close.



The Pharisee's and Sadducee's were responding to the Savior. Just because they didn't think He was, doesn't change who He was. Who are you equating Bronco with from your statement?

northerncougar wrote:

yep, thats what they (P's and S's) said as well.

Did you miss Roger Reed's comments? guess so.

Roger Reid's comments were stupid but don't come even close to Bronco's. Not even close.



The Pharisee's and Sadducee's were responding to the Savior. Just because they didn't think He was, doesn't change who He was. Who are you equating Bronco with from your statement?

This has turned into a molehill on steroids. Nowhere did Bronco make any mention of the Savior. The Pharisees were great at making a big ole deal out of anything. Just like our fans, and me sometimes. It's a fitting analogy for a lot of us fans that have made too big a deal out of the season and one that we should just laugh off.

declocoug wrote:
This has turned into a molehill on steroids. Nowhere did Bronco make any mention of the Savior. The Pharisees were great at making a big ole deal out of anything. Just like our fans, and me sometimes. It's a fitting analogy for a lot of us fans that have made too big a deal out of the season and one that we should just laugh off.

I can't wait to have a good laugh again on Friday! Because watchin the BYU offense through three games has been quite comedic.

SpiffCoug wrote:

This has turned into a molehill on steroids. Nowhere did Bronco make any mention of the Savior. The Pharisees were great at making a big ole deal out of anything. Just like our fans, and me sometimes. It's a fitting analogy for a lot of us fans that have made too big a deal out of the season and one that we should just laugh off.

I can't wait to have a good laugh again on Friday! Because watchin the BYU offense through three games has been quite comedic.

Does Bronco's comments last friday have any correlation with the game this Friday? Otherwise I don't see the point of you post spiff.



The offense has been as painful for me as anyone. But shouldn't Doman/Heaps/Dupaix/RBs/O-line shoulder some of that blame? Why are you tying Bronco in here who has the defense playing pretty well as long as they're not on the field for 48 minutes.

declocoug wrote:

dmcougar wrote:
yep, thats what they (P's and S's) said as well.

Did you miss Roger Reed's comments? guess so.

Roger Reid's comments were stupid but don't come even close to Bronco's. Not even close.



The Pharisee's and Sadducee's were responding to the Savior. Just because they didn't think He was, doesn't change who He was. Who are you equating Bronco with from your statement?

This has turned into a molehill on steroids. Nowhere did Bronco make any mention of the Savior. The Pharisees were great at making a big ole deal out of anything. Just like our fans, and me sometimes. It's a fitting analogy for a lot of us fans that have made too big a deal out of the season and one that we should just laugh off.

Take a step back and look at his statement. I will spell it out for you if I need to, but I think you can get it.



It is a terrible analogy. Terrible. Not fitting in any way, shape or form.

Because Bronco is the head coach. He is responsible for the offense as well as the defense. Every player and coach on the offensive side of the ball plus the head coach are responsible for the offense. Those three groups need to shoulder all of the blame for the atrocious offense we have seen in 2011.



My post was in response your last phrase which I took to mean that we should just laugh off this season. But re-reading, perhaps you were saying we should laugh off the analogy. Which we probably should.



I won't post on this analogy again, other than to say it was an extremely poor analogy that was phrased even more poorly. In any business it does not help your business model to be insulting (even correctly) your investors and customers. Bronco should not have made such an analogy even if that is the way he felt.

northerncougar wrote:

northerncougar wrote:

yep, thats what they (P's and S's) said as well.

Did you miss Roger Reed's comments? guess so.

Roger Reid's comments were stupid but don't come even close to Bronco's. Not even close.



The Pharisee's and Sadducee's were responding to the Savior. Just because they didn't think He was, doesn't change who He was. Who are you equating Bronco with from your statement?

This has turned into a molehill on steroids. Nowhere did Bronco make any mention of the Savior. The Pharisees were great at making a big ole deal out of anything. Just like our fans, and me sometimes. It's a fitting analogy for a lot of us fans that have made too big a deal out of the season and one that we should just laugh off.

Take a step back and look at his statement. I will spell it out for you if I need to, but I think you can get it.



It is a terrible analogy. Terrible. Not fitting in any way, shape or form.

I could ask you to do the same thing. I know where you are coming from, I've looked at it both ways (fans=Christ killers) and I don't think that that's what Bronco was going for AT ALL. If it was, BYU would have come down on him by now.



It's only a sensitive item if you really are acting like a pharisee. Ironic, right? Not that you are wanting to kill the Savior, but you are trying to trap someone in their words and like to get offended at what you perceive to be provocation. And I think Bronco just felt that some CC members were trying to get him to flip out or say something stupid and made a joke about it.



We've been programmed by years of Sunday School to think "THEY KILLED CHRIST" when we hear Pharisees and Saduccees, which I'm 100% sure is not what Bronco wanted to portray. We've made way to big of a deal out of this.

SpiffCoug wrote:
I won't post on this analogy again

Hallelujah! I think an angel in heaven just earned his wings.



My take on the whole quote situation is that if the General Authorities/Board of Trustees thought it was embarrassing or a problem, they would have come out and said it. And if they end up doing that, I'll be more than happy to rethink my position. But until then...

declocoug wrote:

declocoug wrote:

dmcougar wrote:
yep, thats what they (P's and S's) said as well.

Did you miss Roger Reed's comments? guess so.

Roger Reid's comments were stupid but don't come even close to Bronco's. Not even close.



The Pharisee's and Sadducee's were responding to the Savior. Just because they didn't think He was, doesn't change who He was. Who are you equating Bronco with from your statement?

This has turned into a molehill on steroids. Nowhere did Bronco make any mention of the Savior. The Pharisees were great at making a big ole deal out of anything. Just like our fans, and me sometimes. It's a fitting analogy for a lot of us fans that have made too big a deal out of the season and one that we should just laugh off.

Take a step back and look at his statement. I will spell it out for you if I need to, but I think you can get it.



It is a terrible analogy. Terrible. Not fitting in any way, shape or form.

I could ask you to do the same thing. I know where you are coming from, I've looked at it both ways (fans=Christ killers) and I don't think that that's what Bronco was going for AT ALL. If it was, BYU would have come down on him by now.



It's only a sensitive item if you really are acting like a pharisee. Ironic, right? Not that you are wanting to kill the Savior, but you are trying to trap someone in their words and like to get offended at what you perceive to be provocation. And I think Bronco just felt that some CC members were trying to get him to flip out or say something stupid and made a joke about it.



We've been programmed by years of Sunday School to think "THEY KILLED CHRIST" when we hear Pharisees and Saduccees, which I'm 100% sure is not what Bronco wanted to portray. We've made way to big of a deal out of this.

The statement above is just plain false. Something can be wrong with out the person or group it was directed being offended. I don't care if anyone was offended. I personally wasn't, I was appalled and embarrassed that at Bronco would make the statement. It wasn't a joke on his part.



The Pharisee's and Sadducee's intentionally asked question to trip up the Savior. The Cougar Club questions were about a specific play. No one was trying to trip up Bronco and catch him in his words. To even imply that is silly beyond measure.



Bronco screwed up and needs to apologize and it has nothing to do with anyone choosing to be offended. It was just plain wrong.

northerncougar,

It will be okay even if you never get that apology from Bronco because you yourself have the ability and capability to forgive those who have offended you, and as you do, you will find an "inner-peace" that you may never have experienced before in your life...try it, you might like it. P.S....a good solid 3 touchdown win this Friday night can also go a long ways in helping a lot of us "fans" find some "inner-peace" as well. GO COUGARS! 8)