Why?

Are we not running any screens? We have a small quick back who is a pretty damn good receiver, big strong receivers and tight ends who should be pretty competent blockers, and a fairly athletic line who is having problems with run blocking. Seems like some screens should be in order? Or am I missing something?

kfilly20 wrote:
Are we not running any screens? We have a small quick back who is a pretty damn good receiver, big strong receivers and tight ends who should be pretty competent blockers, and a fairly athletic line who is having problems with run blocking. Seems like some screens should be in order? Or am I missing something?

I think this is really a missing piece of ammo for the BYU offense. Although, we need a QB who knows how to run it first. I counted twice that BYU tried to run screens. One pass got tipped. The other time Heaps overthrew the RB (uncatchable, ball landed OOB). I don't think BYU has practiced them enough to know how to run them well. The other times I've seen them called, Heaps hasn't hit the receiver well enough for him to do anything but focus on the catch, and other times it ends up being a 1-2 yard gain on a 3rd n 7 that turns into an easy play for the defense.

Because to run a WR screen (or RB screen for that matter) you got to have a WR or RB who is faster than the linebackers that are going to drop him for a 5 yard loss. We don't have that right now.

CAFB_04-12 wrote:
Because to run a WR screen (or RB screen for that matter) you got to have a WR or RB who is faster than the linebackers that are going to drop him for a 5 yard loss. We don't have that right now.

You can't tell me BSU has better athletes than Hoffman or Apo or JJ as far as quicks go. They get it done and beat the best teams out there. What are they doing that BYU isn't right now?

declocoug wrote:

Because to run a WR screen (or RB screen for that matter) you got to have a WR or RB who is faster than the linebackers that are going to drop him for a 5 yard loss. We don't have that right now.

You can't tell me BSU has better athletes than Hoffman or Apo or JJ as far as quicks go. They get it done and beat the best teams out there. What are they doing that BYU isn't right now?

They execute every single play to perfection.

kfilly20 wrote:

CAFB_04-12 wrote:
Because to run a WR screen (or RB screen for that matter) you got to have a WR or RB who is faster than the linebackers that are going to drop him for a 5 yard loss. We don't have that right now.

You can't tell me BSU has better athletes than Hoffman or Apo or JJ as far as quicks go. They get it done and beat the best teams out there. What are they doing that BYU isn't right now?

They execute every single play to perfection.

Exactly. Look back at my first post in this thread. Heaps doesn't get the ball there in time and doesn't put the RB/WR in a position to do anything with the ball. Like I said, they don't look like they've run the play enough and when they do try they look out of sync. This team is lacking the execution that Anae was so good at getting out of his offenses.

Lack of execution is on the coaches shoulders

kfilly20 wrote:
Lack of execution is on the coaches shoulders

agreed.

declocoug wrote:

Because to run a WR screen (or RB screen for that matter) you got to have a WR or RB who is faster than the linebackers that are going to drop him for a 5 yard loss. We don't have that right now.

You can't tell me BSU has better athletes than Hoffman or Apo or JJ as far as quicks go. They get it done and beat the best teams out there. What are they doing that BYU isn't right now?

I've seen Hoffman run a lot of kickoffs and I just don't see explosive speed.



JJ looks fast and shifty, but not explosive enough to run the RB screen in traffic.



And I think the others are right...the WR screen has to get there the instant the ball is snapped. And since most teams tend to play our WR man-to-man, there just isn't enough quickness to get it off.

CAFB_04-12 wrote:

CAFB_04-12 wrote:
Because to run a WR screen (or RB screen for that matter) you got to have a WR or RB who is faster than the linebackers that are going to drop him for a 5 yard loss. We don't have that right now.

You can't tell me BSU has better athletes than Hoffman or Apo or JJ as far as quicks go. They get it done and beat the best teams out there. What are they doing that BYU isn't right now?

I've seen Hoffman run a lot of kickoffs and I just don't see explosive speed.



JJ looks fast and shifty, but not explosive enough to run the RB screen in traffic.



And I think the others are right...the WR screen has to get there the instant the ball is snapped. And since most teams tend to play our WR man-to-man, there just isn't enough quickness to get it off.

The thing about the screen is that it's not supposed to go to the house. Hoffman has plenty of power and speed to pick up 5-6 yards. Again, who does BSU have that is so fast? I really think it's about execution, WR blocking, timing etc. BYU offense has none of these things right now.

declocoug wrote:

declocoug wrote:

Because to run a WR screen (or RB screen for that matter) you got to have a WR or RB who is faster than the linebackers that are going to drop him for a 5 yard loss. We don't have that right now.

You can't tell me BSU has better athletes than Hoffman or Apo or JJ as far as quicks go. They get it done and beat the best teams out there. What are they doing that BYU isn't right now?

They execute every single play to perfection.

Exactly. Look back at my first post in this thread. Heaps doesn't get the ball there in time and doesn't put the RB/WR in a position to do anything with the ball. Like I said, they don't look like they've run the play enough and when they do try they look out of sync. This team is lacking the execution that Anae was so good at getting out of his offenses.

So now Heaps can't even throw hypothetical screens we are discussing right?



Oh brother...



Dude can't do anything right in your book... ;)

BlueIsBetter wrote:

kfilly20 wrote:

CAFB_04-12 wrote:
Because to run a WR screen (or RB screen for that matter) you got to have a WR or RB who is faster than the linebackers that are going to drop him for a 5 yard loss. We don't have that right now.

You can't tell me BSU has better athletes than Hoffman or Apo or JJ as far as quicks go. They get it done and beat the best teams out there. What are they doing that BYU isn't right now?

They execute every single play to perfection.

Exactly. Look back at my first post in this thread. Heaps doesn't get the ball there in time and doesn't put the RB/WR in a position to do anything with the ball. Like I said, they don't look like they've run the play enough and when they do try they look out of sync. This team is lacking the execution that Anae was so good at getting out of his offenses.

So now Heaps can't even throw hypothetical screens we are discussing right?



Oh brother...



Dude can't do anything right in your book... ;)

:D Seriously, I just haven't seen consistency out of Heaps. He has a couple absolutely gorgeous TD passes (at the rate of 1 a game recently) but that's all I can credit him for. I really with I could say he does more right. Maybe it is nothing more than Heaps not getting enough reps with the "new" offense, but every game that goes by makes me question that excuse even more since he has looked more out of sync as time goes on. He looked exactly like he did against USU last year on Saturday night. But so did the whole BYU team.



And I didn't place all the blame on Heaps. He's just one of the reasons that screens haven't worked the few times that BYU has decided to run them. Execution, drops, bad blocking haven't helped either.

kfilly20 wrote:
Are we not running any screens? We have a small quick back who is a pretty damn good receiver, big strong receivers and tight ends who should be pretty competent blockers, and a fairly athletic line who is having problems with run blocking. Seems like some screens should be in order? Or am I missing something?

I've been advocating RB screens for a long time. To run screens effectively, BYU would have to have offensive linemen who are mobile enough to get out an block. Unfortunately, BYU OL have proved to be big and slow.



BTW, mobile linemen who can pull across the formation would also help with the run game.

A few things.



1. BSU has faster players than us. They get a lot of players from JC that don't qualify at many places, or they'd be at bigger schools. Low academic standards at its finest.



2. We throw a lot to our backs, so the surprise element of the screen is lost.



3. Our OL is so slow, they can't to to the blocks in time.



4. The QB is too afraid to take a hit that may be required on a screen.



5. Our WRs don't block well enough for a WR swing pass or screen.



That is all

stuckinbig10country wrote:
A few things.



1. BSU has faster players than us. They get a lot of players from JC that don't qualify at many places, or they'd be at bigger schools. Low academic standards at its finest.



2. We throw a lot to our backs, so the surprise element of the screen is lost.



3. Our OL is so slow, they can't to to the blocks in time.



4. The QB is too afraid to take a hit that may be required on a screen.



5. Our WRs don't block well enough for a WR swing pass or screen.



That is all

From what I've seen, BSU doesn't look like their athletes are any faster/quicker than ours.



But, BSU is a team that doesn't have a single me first attitude it seems. Here the Receivers on the year.



MILLER, Matt 2 11 122 11.1 1 22 61.0

BURROUGHS, M. 2 11 119 10.8 0 27 59.5

MARTIN, Doug 2 8 147 18.4 1 71 73.5

EFAW, Kyle 2 7 65 9.3 2 18 32.5

LINEHAN, Gabe 2 6 92 15.3 0 32 46.0

SHOEMAKER. T. 2 6 75 12.5 4 26 37.5

MOORE, Kirby 2 6 67 11.2 0 24 33.5

HARPER, D.J. 2 3 13 4.3 0 9 6.5

POTTER, Chris 2 2 23 11.5 0 12 11.5

BURROUGHS, D. 2 1 3 3.0 0 3 1.5

Total.......... 2 61 726 11.9 8 71 363.0

Opponents...... 2 36 487 13.5 3 51 243.5



And I really don't like BSU by the way, but they sure took the baton from BYU as best in the business for non-BCS and then knocked BYU unconscious with it. 2 games 11 TDs.

I am with Ming on this one. I have been typing in all caps in the chat each game (the online equivalent of YELLING) to throw some screens in there and they haven't yet.



They would work well. We have some mobile lineman. The opposing Dline is getting through anyways, might as well throw a ball behind them and run behind the big fatties once in a while.

Screens are, unfortunately an iffy throw for this team right now. JJ Diluigi is our feature back. He has 43 touches to Kariya's 16 and Quezada's 15. He's been targeted in throws 19 times, but he has just 10 receptions and was targeted during one interception (it's hard to know if he broke the route off early, ran the wrong route, or the QB made a bad throw). He RER is 70.48. The QBs are completing just 52.6% of their throws to him.



If you add the RB targets together, you a 60.0% completion rate (still relatively low, considering throws to the RBs should be easier) and just a 85.94 RER.

In theory a screen should be very effective against man to man coverage. If you can get the one guy covering your screen recipient blocked it should be a successful play. That means you let the d-line through and if the pass is going to the running back you block the linebacker that is guarding him. The other receivers run off their defenders. Assuming the strong side line backer is running with the tight end down the field and the middle line backer is responsible for the running back then it is not likely that the opposite side linebacker would be able to get to the running back before positive yardage is gained if the throw goes to strong side of the formation. If it is timed right and the defense is sending their d-line after us like utah was a screen to the running back would kill the defense and slow down their rush. We should be doing a lot more of this.



For the WR screen to be effective against bump man coverage it needs to be more of a bubble screen. It needs to go to the WR split out on his own. Motion the RB out of the backfield so that either a linebacker or safety picks him up. The RB goes and blocks the WR's man as he comes towards the center to catch the ball. The Tackle needs to pin the DE to the inside and the Guard needs to pull and take out the RB's defender. After that it is up to the WR to read the rest of the blocks from the OL to make his way up the middle of the field. We did this great to Chambers in the Oklahoma and Florida State games. We stopped running it because he fumbled both times after gaining 30+ yards.

I would not trust our offense to do a WR screen against bump coverage. And that is actually the worst time to do it. And Spiff is right about the screen being a little iffy.



1. You have to deliver the ball in obvious pressure, the D line is screaming at you if you do it right. Jake has shown to ... well ... suck mad at situations like that.



2. You have to actually catch the ball, if it is somewhat well thrown, and JJ has shown to ... well ... suck mad at that.



So I want to see one, but I don't anticipate a complete pass.



But even just throwing one - completed or not - will show the defense that you aren't afraid to do it, and they will need to "slow their roll" and play a little more assignment sound.