I'm calling for Nelson to start

Yes, I'm calling for Nelson to start against UCF. I think Heaps needs to take a breather, watch the game from the sideline. This can often help slow the game down, give him a chance to analyze whats going on.



Anything with me?

This anything is. At worst, BYU looks about the same and Heaps can go in with a renewed passion.

I'm no expert but I think we might need Riley as a running back? ??



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BoiseBYU wrote:
I'm no expert but I think we might need Riley as a running back? ??



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I voted for Nelson to start and then saw this.



I like this idea. Someone close to Bronco/Doman needs to go whisper this in their ear.



If they don't bite Nelson as a RB then I think Nelson should start. Heaps does need a break and some time to contemplate his role and desire to play. I think there's been too much hand holding.

Although his abs are dreamy, wasn't Nelson as ineffective as Heaps was last year, but without the upside?



If you're going to start anybody other than Heaps, start Lark.

mormonrasta wrote:
Although his abs are dreamy, wasn't Nelson as ineffective as Heaps was last year, but without the upside?



If you're going to start anybody other than Heaps, start Lark.

Nelson was injured last year, didn't look great, I agree. But Nelson looked far and above better than Lark in every open practice session this year.

I don't want Nelson on the field almost as much as I don't want the current QB on the field. I think they need to go to Lark if they bench the QB. Practice players are a dime a dozen. Lark actually looked pretty good in the limited game action he got last year.

mormonrasta wrote:
Although his abs are dreamy, wasn't Nelson as ineffective as Heaps was last year, but without the upside?



If you're going to start anybody other than Heaps, start Lark.

This. Nelson isn't a d1 caliber qb. Lark might be. Give him the rock and see what happens.



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Nelson is our best bet at quarterback other than Heaps. Heaps has not been able to lead the team so far. Quarterback is 40% skill and 60% leadership ability. That is why you see quarterbacks come in with the size, arm strength and accuracy and they can't perform at the college level because of lack of leadership ability. Then you have some quarterback from out of nowhere come and light up the scoreboard because of the lack of ability to quit. Doman is a prime example here. He was 3rd string quarteback behind 2 awesome high school quarterbacks. He wasn't even supposed to be in the picture. Yet, he succeeded because he worked his but off and people around him noticed. With him leading the team, they came together and made it happen. This BYU team has all of the skill sets necessary, yet they aren't succeeding. The Quarterback is the first spot I would change.

rblack wrote:
Nelson is our best bet at quarterback other than Heaps. Heaps has not been able to lead the team so far. Quarterback is 40% skill and 60% leadership ability. That is why you see quarterbacks come in with the size, arm strength and accuracy and they can't perform at the college level because of lack of leadership ability. Then you have some quarterback from out of nowhere come and light up the scoreboard because of the lack of ability to quit. Doman is a prime example here. He was 3rd string quarteback behind 2 awesome high school quarterbacks. He wasn't even supposed to be in the picture. Yet, he succeeded because he worked his but off and people around him noticed. With him leading the team, they came together and made it happen. This BYU team has all of the skill sets necessary, yet they aren't succeeding. The Quarterback is the first spot I would change.

Kind of funny considering how long it took for Doman to emerge--his SR year. Hope it doesnt take 3 years for him to figure out the OC job.

In fact all other options at qb had essentially expired. So maybe Kuresa is our best option. Oh wait, we dont have Luke Staley. Got to keep things in context people. Doman worked bc we had Staley. Who does Jake have? Oh, Apo and Hoffman.

hawkwing wrote:
Yes, I'm calling for Nelson to start against UCF. I think Heaps needs to take a breather, watch the game from the sideline. This can often help slow the game down, give him a chance to analyze whats going on.



Anything with me?

Hawk, who are you calling?

Bronco?

All angels?

Ghostbusters?

jk ;-)

Like i have said, this is not a player problem, it is a coaching problem. If the coaches benched Heaps it would lay blame on him and would be a mistake. The coaches need to fix this with better coaching.

Two things the coaches could do: Move Doman to the box. Leave the coaching of the defense during practice this week to the other defensive coaches and have Coach Mendenhall - as the head coach - run the offense through some drills.

dmcougar wrote:

Nelson is our best bet at quarterback other than Heaps. Heaps has not been able to lead the team so far. Quarterback is 40% skill and 60% leadership ability. That is why you see quarterbacks come in with the size, arm strength and accuracy and they can't perform at the college level because of lack of leadership ability. Then you have some quarterback from out of nowhere come and light up the scoreboard because of the lack of ability to quit. Doman is a prime example here. He was 3rd string quarteback behind 2 awesome high school quarterbacks. He wasn't even supposed to be in the picture. Yet, he succeeded because he worked his but off and people around him noticed. With him leading the team, they came together and made it happen. This BYU team has all of the skill sets necessary, yet they aren't succeeding. The Quarterback is the first spot I would change.

Kind of funny considering how long it took for Doman to emerge--his SR year. Hope it doesnt take 3 years for him to figure out the OC job.

In fact all other options at qb had essentially expired. So maybe Kuresa is our best option. Oh wait, we dont have Luke Staley. Got to keep things in context people. Doman worked bc we had Staley. Who does Jake have? Oh, Apo and Hoffman.

In the 2000 season, Engemann was the original starter. He was a Sophmore. Peterson followed, he was a Junior. Doman was a Junior. Both Engemann and Peterson had eligibility left when Doman won the job as a senior, so, IN FACT, all other options at qb had not essentially expired. So let's keep things in context.

Doman won the quarterback job because he was a better leader than QB #1 or QB #2, not because BYU was out of options. Engemann came out of high school as a highly thought of quarterback. He had the size, the strength and was a prototypical quarterback. He got beat out in 2001 by Doman anyway. Peterson was another great high school quarterback. He did not pan out unfortunately. Sometimes great high school quarterbacks don't make it at this level. It's just a fact of life. We need to move on as a team.

This is a coaching problem. It doesn't matter who we have in there if we can't get more than 30 total rushing yards out of our running backs, and our line can't hold a pass block for more than 3 seconds for the receivers to get open.



When was the last time you saw our line hold a block for 6 or 7 seconds. Last year?



Ask Sno, it takes about 4 seconds to get into a 10 yard slant, longer if you are getting off a jam.



How many holding penalties (and him getting purely blown up) does Houston Reynolds need to get before we realize he just isn't at Elite D1 competition level?



And our replacement, Thorson was even worse...



I know that the last name "Reynolds" projects the image of god-like power and abilities on the Oline, but he is not very good this year. The injury to Ryker Matthews hurt us more than we think, I am afraid.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
How many holding penalties (and him getting purely blown up) does Houston Reynolds need to get before we realize he just isn't at Elite D1 competition level?

But but but, Houston is just a Sophmore. It's not fair to call him out for not being all-world. ;)



Listen, no one is saying we don't have problems with the offensive line and running game. We do. So lets put in a QB that's not afraid to get hit, because whoever is going to be back there needs to have the balls to take some big hits and make some plays. We all wish it were Detmer, who played behind some terrible offensive lines, but we don't have Detmer. We have a scrappy kid named Riley Nelson.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
This is a coaching problem. It doesn't matter who we have in there if we can't get more than 30 total rushing yards out of our running backs, and our line can't hold a pass block for more than 3 seconds for the receivers to get open.



When was the last time you saw our line hold a block for 6 or 7 seconds. Last year?



Ask Sno, it takes about 4 seconds to get into a 10 yard slant, longer if you are getting off a jam.



How many holding penalties (and him getting purely blown up) does Houston Reynolds need to get before we realize he just isn't at Elite D1 competition level?



And our replacement, Thorson was even worse...



I know that the last name "Reynolds" projects the image of god-like power and abilities on the Oline, but he is not very good this year. The injury to Ryker Matthews hurt us more than we think, I am afraid.

So we're back to the it's the coaching that's the problem for Heaps, and it's the receivers and it's the OL.



Will Heaps ever be responsible for his play in your mind? Or will it always be someone else's fault?



Plenty of QBs come in with worse surrounding talent, worse coaching and do better than Heaps is.

SpiffCoug wrote:

This is a coaching problem. It doesn't matter who we have in there if we can't get more than 30 total rushing yards out of our running backs, and our line can't hold a pass block for more than 3 seconds for the receivers to get open.



When was the last time you saw our line hold a block for 6 or 7 seconds. Last year?



Ask Sno, it takes about 4 seconds to get into a 10 yard slant, longer if you are getting off a jam.



How many holding penalties (and him getting purely blown up) does Houston Reynolds need to get before we realize he just isn't at Elite D1 competition level?



And our replacement, Thorson was even worse...



I know that the last name "Reynolds" projects the image of god-like power and abilities on the Oline, but he is not very good this year. The injury to Ryker Matthews hurt us more than we think, I am afraid.

So we're back to the it's the coaching that's the problem for Heaps, and it's the receivers and it's the OL.

Spiff, you like numbers and facts:

How many rushing yards did we have last night?

How many offensive line penalties?

How many sacks against? How about for?

How many sacks when Riley, the shiftiest, most sane in the pocket, all heart and grit qb was in? Fumbles? For TD's?

Will Heaps ever be responsible for his play in your mind? Or will it always be someone else's fault?

Heaps is responsible for what he is responsible for. And that is about half of what everyone is attributing to him. I am pretty sure that anyone in the BYU organization, and looking at this with their jobs on the line will tell you the exact same thing.

Plenty of QBs come in with worse surrounding talent, worse coaching and do better than Heaps is.

And they are?



(offensive line that has center/snapper issues, and has a left guard getting blown up on every play - or called for holding. No running game, AT ALL, to speak of. I'll even give on the first year co-ordinator thing to narrow the field for you... ;) )

hawkwing wrote:

How many holding penalties (and him getting purely blown up) does Houston Reynolds need to get before we realize he just isn't at Elite D1 competition level?

But but but, Houston is just a Sophmore. It's not fair to call him out for not being all-world. ;)



Listen, no one is saying we don't have problems with the offensive line and running game. We do. So lets put in a QB that's not afraid to get hit, because whoever is going to be back there needs to have the balls to take some big hits and make some plays. We all wish it were Detmer, who played behind some terrible offensive lines, but we don't have Detmer. We have a scrappy kid named Riley Nelson.

Right, and I agree with that. But the talent gap between reynolds and everyone else is much slimmer.



You could put in Walter Khalalalallalaiai'alala in (I think I spelled that right ;) ) or Thorson and have the same results. Putting Riley, Nelson or Lark in with no other changes will warrant worse results. Is Reynolds our best player? He might be, but he might not.



I am all for opening every position EVERYWHERE on the offense. I just don't think you give someone a job that hasn't earned it, just to make sure they haven't earned it. Unless of course, the guy ahead has completely lost the job, with no chance of coming back.



For better or worse, BYU is not a "bench a guy in game to send a message" team. (The only exception in probably 10 years being benching Heaps from his rotation last year after he threw a pick @AF)



Once you remove a guy, he isn't going to play there anymore.

Hawk, Riley has a ton of grit and got hurt for it last year bc when the pressure came on him he tried to make plays and all he had left was duck and run. THAT IS NOT an offensive scheme.

Maybe if we had Staley it would work.

In fact it was pointed out to me by a friend that Doman's offense is looking alot like Crowton's. Hmmmmm, maybe Doman is having an identity crisis. What worked for him in 2001 was more of an option type offense that maximized both Staley's and Doman's skills. Maybe he should go back that. Oh, wait we dont have the best RB to ever play at BYU.

Im not blaming Doman, but he does not have the personnel for the offense he is trying to run. SO put Riley in fine. He will be reduced to running and get hurt again and then we will have the whole season blow up with another qb controversy.

If a switch has to be made, then give LArk a chance. Havent posters claimed he's the best athlete of the qb's and a good mix of heaps and nelson?

Go back and watch the first half. We were moving the ball pretty good. We were finally running and completing some slants and quick outs. it actually looked pretty good if we only had to play one half. Take away the RB fumbles and YES, even Jakes poor decision to try and throw it out of bounds (except you heaps haters would complain that he fell on the ball instead of trying to throw it out of bounds) and we are up 14-0 or better. Why is that so hard for you guys? You guys really do want a scapegoat dont you?