Why stay independent? Honestly?

Hey guys, I'm new around here. I was back on cougarblue, some of you might remember me, harlinestillopen... I got back from my mission in November, and have just been reading here since. But I decided, I cant wait any more, I want to talk!



My question, what is the plus of staying independent? I just dont see it... I think it was a smart choice... at the time. But nobody was really offering BYU anything last year. Now they're in the talk with people... leave.



How many times has Bronco said National Championship? Has a non BCS team EVER won the NC? It seems to even have a chance at that, BYU would need to go undefeated this year, go BSC, win, go undefeated next year... and MMMMAAAAAYYYYYBBBBEEEE, there is a chance... Its still more likely that utah would get a winning record in the pac 12 than BYU getting an invite to the NC. If BYU is serious about winning a NC, get into a BCS conference, and NOW. I get that there is more to it, ties with ESPN, WCC, future opponents... all that crap. Being a part of the BCS is the best thing BYU can do. They need to jump on it. If the big 12 falls apart... well, they can just go indy again... big deal.



Anyways, let me know what you guys think, I just dont see the downside. Thanks for your time, and sorry to start another thread about BYU and the big 12..





ONLY 2 Days and 6 hours til the BEAT down at ol miss!

First, welcome back from your mission (though you've been back for awhile now!).



Secondly, there are still pluses to being independent, even if there may be reasons to entertain a BigXII offer.



You don't have to worry about conferences making bad decisions. You're in charge of your own destiny. You're in charge of your television situation., etc.

From my perspective, the only reason to turn down an invite to the Big 12 would be because of commitments made to the WCC. There are no other reasons. Unfortunately, that may be enough.

Welcome back home. As an indy we can play teams all over the country. In conf with only 3 OOC games and Utah/Utah St on the schedule there is no flexiblity to schedule anything.

scott715 wrote:
Welcome back home. As an indy we can play teams all over the country. In conf with only 3 OOC games and Utah/Utah St on the schedule there is no flexiblity to schedule anything.

How long is the the utah rivalry going to last? From everything I've heard, utah is "moving on to bigger and better things". If BYU gets an offer from the big 12... they should do the same. have utah state as your easy/warm up game. and if utah wants an L on their schedule, we can play, if they dont, then they can move on.



Is there some way that the other sports could stay with the WCC for a year or two? Then they could pull out? I hate to see that... an affiliation with the WCC (of all conferences) hold BYU back from doing what they truly need to do

I sitll argue exposure is better year in and year out being Indy than being in the middle of the big 12.

Further, if superconferences do emerge, that would mean there would be 4 or maybe 3 (Pac-huge, Big-10-huge and the Boring East/ACC hybrid).The big 12 will get decimated. THis will finally exposes even more the Anti-Trust issues and will open things for a play-off in football and then we are back in the hunt for our coveted chance for a NC (since that has worked out so well for us in Bball).

I know this is bit of a stretch, but in the famous words of Wayne Gretsky, "Its nto where the puck is, its where the puck is going to be next." BYU missed the BCS ship. "we are looking to the FUTURE" or whatever was said in the public statement yesterday.

So, reason #2, and the biggest reason, the Big 12 conference is practically in total disarray.

rblack wrote:
From my perspective, the only reason to turn down an invite to the Big 12 would be because of commitments made to the WCC. There are no other reasons. Unfortunately, that may be enough.

I think BYU will honor any commitments made, no matter what. If any agreement is made, it will take these commitments into account. This may involve a more long-range view. I also think any agreement would have to leave BYU with a lot of autonomy regarding television rights.

^^^this^^^

I do not buy the exposure argument at all. Just because we have ESPN games does not mean we have awesome exposure. Better than the MWC--yes. But if we are playing Idaho, NMSU, UCF, Houston, SJSU, SMiss, who tunes in on a Saturday when they can watch a BCS league match up in October and November? Sorry, but being on ESPN does not mean more people watch, just means easier access to watch. So if it is access you want, sure it is great. If it is greater exposure, you need games that people will want to see because they matter. Being in the Big XII means playing more games that matter.

Lawboy wrote:
I do not buy the exposure argument at all. Just because we have ESPN games does not mean we have awesome exposure. Better than the MWC--yes. But if we are playing Idaho, NMSU, UCF, Houston, SJSU, SMiss, who tunes in on a Saturday when they can watch a BCS league match up in October and November? Sorry, but being on ESPN does not mean more people watch, just means easier access to watch. So if it is access you want, sure it is great. If it is greater exposure, you need games that people will want to see because they matter. Being in the Big XII means playing more games that matter.

This plus Heisman and Outland exposure when we have a great player.



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rblack wrote:
From my perspective, the only reason to turn down an invite to the Big 12 would be because of commitments made to the WCC. There are no other reasons. Unfortunately, that may be enough.

Yes, but how is the WCC hurt if we leave? We didn't cost them money, we didn't cost them exposure (in fact they reupped with ESPN), we didn't make them look bad. I can't see a negative from their perspective. They were one less team before we came and are back to "normal" if we leave.



The only problem I see is if we join the Big XII then it implodes in a year. We can always go back to independent in football but where would the other sports go? Back to the WCC?

One big issue with joining the BIG XII vs. staying independent is how committed Texas and Oklahoma are to the Big XII. If BYU jumps in and they walk in one or two years, BYU may be better served by keeping its options open and staying indie.

Right. Just ask Boise St.

ProV1 wrote:

From my perspective, the only reason to turn down an invite to the Big 12 would be because of commitments made to the WCC. There are no other reasons. Unfortunately, that may be enough.

Yes, but how is the WCC hurt if we leave? We didn't cost them money, we didn't cost them exposure (in fact they reupped with ESPN), we didn't make them look bad. I can't see a negative from their perspective. They were one less team before we came and are back to "normal" if we leave.



The only problem I see is if we join the Big XII then it implodes in a year. We can always go back to independent in football but where would the other sports go? Back to the WCC?

The problem has two tiers. Problem part 1: If we made promises that we are now not going to keep, we lose our credibility within the college community. Utah, if they were in the same situation, would not lose the same level of credibility because everyone expects Utah to be self serving. BYU holds itself to a higher standard.

Problem part 2: If we leave the WCC now, would we ever be able to go back? If the Big 12 implodes, and we need a place to park our non football sports, we can't go back to the MWC, we might not be able to go to the WCC and we are stuck with a one bid WAC.

1. The money

2. Control of all things important to BYU

3. No sunday games, and no arm twisting and finagaling to get it

4. Because money and winning are not the most important things in life (ask Bronco)

5. Free from entangling alliances

6. Honor, and commitments

golong wrote:
1. The money

2. Control of all things important to BYU

3. No sunday games, and no arm twisting and finagaling to get it

4. Because money and winning are not the most important things in life (ask Bronco)

5. Free from entangling alliances

6. Honor, and commitments

AMEN AND AMEN!!!!

rblack wrote:

The problem has two tiers. Problem part 1: If we made promises that we are now not going to keep, we lose our credibility within the college community. Utah, if they were in the same situation, would not lose the same level of credibility because everyone expects Utah to be self serving. BYU holds itself to a higher standard.

Two thoughts on that:



1. Are we even sure what the terms and nature of the agreement between the WCC are? I feel like those who keep harping on the "honor of commitment" angle base most of their argument on a single comment that TH made during a public conference. I'd feel more comfortable making a determination that BYU is breaking their word if I knew the text of the agreement, the communication between the WCC and BYU, and what specifically was said to the WCC regarding future conference realignment (a topic that undoubtedly was covered).



A comment made to the public had to pass through many different lenses - communicating to the WCC, sure, but also speaking to the fanbase, the athletic programs and (indirectly) to other conferences. I don't know if it's necessarily the best reflection of either BYU's or the WCC's understanding and intentions.



2. An analogy. I'm about to finish law school and I'm interviewing for various jobs on a regular basis. The legal market isn't all that good right now, and accordingly a lot of the jobs I'm interested in aren't immediate options. I'm interviewing for a lot of government/public sector jobs that don't interest me much beyond providing a paycheck and some work experience.



When I interview for these positions, when they ask about my long-term plans, am I obligated to say "I will leave you the minute something I'm interested in doing opens up?" If I fudge a little and say, "I can't say for certainty how long I'll stay but if given the position I'll be committed for the foreseeable future," am I obligated to stay there if my dream job opens up 6 months later?



That's not an argument as much as a sincere question: if you're seeking to live "by a higher standard," does that apply to situations where posturing is not just tolerated, but expected?

golong wrote:
1. The money

2. Control of all things important to BYU

3. No sunday games, and no arm twisting and finagaling to get it

4. Because money and winning are not the most important things in life (ask Bronco)

5. Free from entangling alliances

6. Honor, and commitments

Well said. Let's see how independence plays out before jump ship. We haven't even played a down of independent football and we're already closing the books on it?

Lets face it, if we tell them no, the Big XII will die, and you WILL see 4 Super Conf's of 16 teams, and we will effectively become a D2 team.

BYUROCKS wrote:
Lets face it, if we tell them no, the Big XII will die, and you WILL see 4 Super Conf's of 16 teams, and we will effectively become a D2 team.

The sky is falling much? Give me a break. How can anyone predict how one little domino (BYU) will affect 60+ FBS schools?