Best Ever -- BYU QB Edition!

Here's the Queen Mother poll--who was (is?) the best ever QB at the Quarterback Factory?



You only get one vote, but you can change your vote if an anonymous stranger on the internet persuades you otherwise.



Poll victor will be enshrined Sunday.

4 finalists for me. Young, Detmer, Bosco, McMahan. But, CHARACTER COUNTS. So does the Heisman! So does the NC.



But, Detmer!

While he doesn't have a chance at winning, I think Max Hall should've at least been on the list. He's the all-time winningest QB, and 2nd in career yards and touchdowns.



Unfortunately a few of his failures (Utah '08, TCU '08, FSU '09) still leave a bitter taste in the mouths of a lot of cougar fans, but I think as more years pass, his overall career will start to look better and better

Not sure I think that John Beck belongs on that list. However, if you're going to put Beck on there you better put the all-time wins leader on that list, Max Hall. He may have been a bit shaky at times but you can't argue with that many wins. Detmer gets my vote, although McMahon came a close second. I guess I just think in the ten years difference from McMahon to Detmer the defense against the passing game evolved so much that it must have been more difficult to put up the kind of numbers that Detmer did.

I wanted Hall on the list as well, but I was limited to 10 by the poll, so I had to go with 9 + "other"

Wow, what a list!

Jim McMahon was the best QB to ever play at BYU. He could make every throw. He refused to quit and lose. When coaches wanted to throw in the towel, he wouldn't come out. Others may have risen higher, but he both settled the foundation (that had been laid by others) and built the framework and stairs for them to climb.



Young was good, but he was good for one season, his pro career causes fans to grossly overvalue how good he was at BYU.



Bosco was the Max Hall of his era.



The only other option is Detmer, but he couldn't make all the throws like McMahon.

yards Detmer, Heisman, Detmer, TD's detmer.



Detmer, Detmer, Detmer....

Jim McMahon may very well be the best QB in the history of college FB. I remember my grandpa taking me to meet him when I was 9 or so just so I could see Jimmy Mac throw a curving football--like a slider in baseball.



The stats he accumulated in a little over 2 1/2 years as BYU's QB are simply mind boggling, as are some of him comeback moments.

Although the vote is trending to Detmer, I will emphatically voice my support for him.



I can understand that some might want to vote for McMahon, but when you really examin it Detmer wins every time.



Many of you probably already read this Top 10 list, but for the "Detmer Doubters" you must read it to see how Detmer is clearly the #1 BYU QB of all time



http://www.bluecougarfootball.com/2011/06/top-10-ty-detmer-moments-10-essence-of.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Additionally,



1. Detmer's OOC schedule was heads and shoulders more difficult than McMahon's.

McMahon had the like of Long Beach St, North Texas, and Wisconsin and Colorado when they were both bad football programs.

Detmer played 4 top 5 teams.

Even with the tougher competition, Detmer posted a higher pass efficiency rating, by a long ways, over his career. Which leads into reason number 2 ...



2. Detmer's records lasted a lot longer than McMahon's.

We can argue all day about why Detmer's numbers were better, but McMahon was the better QB. For me, the fact that Detmer's NCAA records lasted longer than McMahons did is a fair measuring stick. While McMahon raised the bar for quarterback play, those who came after him quickly matched and excceeded that mark. His career passing yards was beat just two years later.

Detmer's numbers were so great, it took well over a decade before players started to come close.



3. McMahon has the "Miracle Bowl" comeback, but Detmer has the Oregon (1989), the Washington State (1990) and San Diego State (1991) comebacks to his credit. Yes, the Miracle Bowl is the most impressive, but Detmer could lead huge comebacks and refused to quit and lose just as much.



4. Watch the old games.

Detmer makes countless jaw dropping plays.

Detmer isn't remembered as much of a runner, but he was mobile and could scramble and pick up yardage in bundles. Plus, he would find a way to get out of sacks like you have never seen before. His pocket presence was unbeleaveable.

snoscythe wrote:
Jim McMahon may very well be the best QB in the history of college FB. I remember my grandpa taking me to meet him when I was 9 or so just so I could see Jimmy Mac throw a curving football--like a slider in baseball.



The stats he accumulated in a little over 2 1/2 years as BYU's QB are simply mind boggling, as are some of him comeback moments.

So, what are Detmer's stats after 2 1/2 years? He BLEW MCMAHON OUT OF THE WATER by the end of his Junior year.



Yards: 11,000 (McMahon 9,500 approx.)

TD: 86 (McMahon 84, ok this one is pretty close)

One more thing, Detmer out did McMahon even though McMahon had the better coach: Doug Scovil.

I chose Detmer... It was a tough choice... Detmer was a quarterback that I can remember see play... Jimbo was around when I was a little kid and I have only seen a few replays of his games...



Both were fiery competitors... Detmer holds or did hold a lot of records... and he has the heisman...

Detmer. Hands down. Hopefully in three years we can redo this poll and have Heaps win by unanimous decision. You know, after a heisman, a couple of BCS bowl wins, and another NC. I'd be ok with that.

Y 4 Ever wrote:
Detmer. Hands down. Hopefully in three years we can redo this poll and have Heaps win by unanimous decision. You know, after a heisman, a couple of BCS bowl wins, and another NC. I'd be ok with that.

I don't know that any QB could ever be so great as to become the unanimous best QB ever in BYU history. Just too much history at the position.

Y12 wrote:

Jim McMahon may very well be the best QB in the history of college FB. I remember my grandpa taking me to meet him when I was 9 or so just so I could see Jimmy Mac throw a curving football--like a slider in baseball.



The stats he accumulated in a little over 2 1/2 years as BYU's QB are simply mind boggling, as are some of him comeback moments.

So, what are Detmer's stats after 2 1/2 years? He BLEW MCMAHON OUT OF THE WATER by the end of his Junior year.



Yards: 11,000 (McMahon 9,500 approx.)

TD: 86 (McMahon 84, ok this one is pretty close)

Dude, cherry-picking particular stats to refute a generalized statement is weak--is there a reason you neglected to compare their INTs over the first 2.5 years? Detmer had 53, McMahon had 34.



Also, it's all fine and good if you want to look at stats and ignore their context. Defenses in the Detmer era had to defend the run and the pass, but defenses in McMahon's era only had to worry about stopping the pass and could cheat on run coverage.



What runningbacks did BYU's opponents have to prepare for? Under Detmer it was Bellini and Willis, under McMahon it was Bill Ring, Scott Phillips, and Waymon Hamilton. Which of those five guys got nominated as "Best Ever" runningbacks? The two that played under Detmer. Defenses planning for BYU in 78, 80, and 81 had one thing to do--stop Jim McMahon. Defenses in 1989-91 had to respect a run game as well.



I agree it's a very close race between Detmer and McMahon and I know there is a recency bias among CougarCorner folks, but I think McMahon is the greatest college QB of all time, and I don't think Detmer is on that plane. I've seen the stats, but I've also seen both play, and I think if both were at BYU at the same time, Detmer would be riding the pine behind McMahon.

Well I voted for Detmer only because I am too young to have seen McMahon, Bosco, or Young play. At least I can't say I remember them even if I did watch. Nice to see some passion on this topic. :crazy:

I believe McMahan threw for 46 or 47 touchdowns his junior year. I don't know where to check national records but I don't think there is more than one maybe 2 qbs to throw more than that.

snoscythe wrote:

snoscythe wrote:
Jim McMahon may very well be the best QB in the history of college FB. I remember my grandpa taking me to meet him when I was 9 or so just so I could see Jimmy Mac throw a curving football--like a slider in baseball.



The stats he accumulated in a little over 2 1/2 years as BYU's QB are simply mind boggling, as are some of him comeback moments.

So, what are Detmer's stats after 2 1/2 years? He BLEW MCMAHON OUT OF THE WATER by the end of his Junior year.



Yards: 11,000 (McMahon 9,500 approx.)

TD: 86 (McMahon 84, ok this one is pretty close)

Dude, cherry-picking particular stats to refute a generalized statement is weak--is there a reason you neglected to compare their INTs over the first 2.5 years? Detmer had 53, McMahon had 34.



Also, it's all fine and good if you want to look at stats and ignore their context. Defenses in the Detmer era had to defend the run and the pass, but defenses in McMahon's era only had to worry about stopping the pass and could cheat on run coverage.



What runningbacks did BYU's opponents have to prepare for? Under Detmer it was Bellini and Willis, under McMahon it was Bill Ring, Scott Phillips, and Waymon Hamilton. Which of those five guys got nominated as "Best Ever" runningbacks? The two that played under Detmer. Defenses planning for BYU in 78, 80, and 81 had one thing to do--stop Jim McMahon. Defenses in 1989-91 had to respect a run game as well.



I agree it's a very close race between Detmer and McMahon and I know there is a recency bias among CougarCorner folks, but I think McMahon is the greatest college QB of all time, and I don't think Detmer is on that plane. I've seen the stats, but I've also seen both play, and I think if both were at BYU at the same time, Detmer would be riding the pine behind McMahon.

I am fine if you want to have McMahon over Detmer. And your last statement about seeing both is enough for me. There is no right answer. This is really a matter of opinion.



Just don't make a generalized statement about stats being mind boggling for one player and not be willing to accept the others.



INTs is the only thing McMahon did better than Detmer, yet Detmer still had a higher pass efficiency rating.



Comp %: 62.9 to 61.6 (709/1127 to 643/1044)

Passer rating: 160.7 to 157.4



Yes, McMahon had mind boggling stats, but Detmer did even better. That is all I am saying, and that is not from cherry-picking any stats. It is true across the board.



As for the run game defenses had to parepare for, BYU ran the ball more often during McMahon's 2.5 years than Detmer's first 2.5 years (1267 times to 1241).



Bill Ring played in the NFL, including a Super Bowl.

Waymon Hamilton set the school record for most touchdowns in a season in 1981.



Throw out Jamal Willis. He only played in 1991. This is about the first 2.5 years (1988 to 1990). And no I don't think defenses even gave one thought to stopping BYU's run game while Detmer was there.

I don't think there's a wrong answer to this question. The only difference between Detmer and McMahon is personal preference.



Do you want the guy with mind boggling stats who could every throw you'd ever ask him to make, who refused to lose, and just made plays?

Or

Do you want the guy with mind boggling stats who could make 90% of all the throws but understood the offense and opposing defenses so well that he could get the ball where it needed to be when it needed to be so you wouldn't even notice that missing 10%, who refused to lose and just made plays?