Why BYU will turn the Big 12 down

I keep hearing from various posters that the Big 12 will eventually come around and invite us to join. I just don't see it happening. I think we turn the Big 12 down and I think we need to stop waiting around for it.



reason 1: We told the WCC when we joined that it was for the long run and not as a temporary pit stop on our way to bigger and greater. That was one of the stipulations to join in the first place,they haven't expanded in 30 something years so longevity was probably a major concern of theirs. We had to give them assurances and probably promises of our commitment.



reason 2: It's too soon. A Big 12 invite will most likely come after this season when we'll only have had one year of independence under our belt. I think we could easily decide that the best football is still to come, especially going into Jake's Junior year.



reason 3: We signed an ESPN deal practically guaranteeing viability for the next 8 years. Fans may protest the specific games we sign and the mix of home and away, but we won't flounder even if we were to lose every single game.



reason 4: We really like BYUtv's newfound power. The Big 12 is close to signing a $1.1B TV deal over 13 years with ESPN and fox. ESPN picks the first games they want, Fox gets the second tier.(see here: http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/26728/big-12-fox-tv-deal-gets-even-sweeter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

BYUtv gets 3rd tier? Now I'm sure they'd still want to use our facilities, our truck etc... but I seriously doubt after forking out that kind of money that ESPN and Fox wouldn't insist we give up some of the rights we enjoy today (or accept the deal already in place which has no room for such things). Obviously, everything is negotiable, and yes Texas has their own fledgling network but it's another piece that is problematic.



reason 5: WCC gave us quite the welcome and BYU is proud of its loyalty. I think we're going to like our new conference, despite its size and limitations.



reason 6: If we are honest this whole time that our #1 reason of going Indy is exposure, we've already got it. The Big 12 means an easier time scheduling, quality opponents, conference championship, easier BCS route, and all those good things, but what about exposure? I think the Big 12 may bring less exposure since we're now married to the Big 12 footprint. Now this whole time we could have just been putting on some Blue Indy goggles about exposure but I don't think we were. Notre Dame of the West sounds a lot more prestigious than Big 12 West division.



So did I miss any reasons? I think there are even more. We made our Indy bed, time to lie in it. Give up on the Big 12 anytime soon.

I think you're spot on with #3. BYU has the entire lifetime of the ESPN contract to do whatever it wants as an independent. No need to negotiate with anyone till that contract comes due.

If the Big 12 came calling and said we'd like the BYU football team to join our conference I could us taking the offer. But I don't see them wanting just a football team. They'd want the whole athletic program. I can't see us bailing on the WCC like that. You're points are spot on.

When I saw the subject, I thought of reason 5. I think loyalty means a lot to BYU.

We reserved the right to leave WCC for a BCS Conference invite iirc. If so, that throws any loyalty obligation right out the window.



Exposure would be the only real deterrent to going back into a conference and that would only apply to football because the other sports are already limited to a very limited conference for exposure. Big 12 would be more exposure for those sports. I would prefer PAC 12 but that ain't gonna happen any time soon. So football exposure would be the only argument against going Big 12.



Scheduling would be the reason to go and perhaps better BCS Bowl and NC game access. And, if we were to lose half of our games let alone all of them - we will be irrelevant in two years. So playing all of these 2 for 1s is a risky gamble. Nobody cares about any 6-6 team in any conference more than 2 or 3 seasons and we just finished one of those seasons. BYU fans will not fill LES every season with all of the good games being on the road. A few cupcakes - sure. Only cupcakes at home will not fly.



Imagine if the Utes had snubbed us this year and said they could not accomodate a trip to Provo. It could happen. They tried to get us to go there in 2011. Then how pathetic would our home schedule get.



But don't worry - they have not invited us and may not invite us. If the dop invite us - I think BYU will accept. Being little brother to the UES re BCS exposure will be much too painful unless the Utes implode - which could well happen. BUt if they do well over there - it will impact BYU in ways that only Big 12 or PAC 12 affiliation or maybe - Big East affiliation can cure.



WHen I start seeing 1 and 1s with BCS schools fimding their way to our schedule. I would erase all of the above and vote for INdependence forever. Maybe we will see some of that Tuesday.



Go Cougs

SpiffCoug wrote:
If the Big 12 came calling and said we'd like the BYU football team to join our conference I could us taking the offer. But I don't see them wanting just a football team. They'd want the whole athletic program. I can't see us bailing on the WCC like that. You're points are spot on.

I am going to have to disagree. I think the wcc understood from the beginning that if the big12 comes calling they are out. I am certain that the contract has an out for that and that both were clear on that.



I think that they take it. Independence has great upside but it has risk as well. I suppose alot of it would depend on how stable the big12 is. If the big12 can nab byu and notre dame as the conference that lets you be in it but also lets you control your own tv rights they might have something there. I could see them turning it down, but I don't think it would be because of the wcc, i think it would be because they think independence is giving them what they value most already.

Cougarbib, I think you're underestimating the "exposure" part of it by limiting the exposure to the American people. They want college football no doubt. But, exposure could go through the roof with the other world class athletes and teams that BYU can broadcast worldwide via BYUtv.



Let's not limit our exposure to the USA, and if the current deal gives BYU the most freedom to get that exposure out there, I'm all for staying in the WCC+indy football.

I honestly think it hinges upon what importance BYU places on being in a BCS Bowl and conference. If BYU does not value that, then the move is not made. If BYU really does value that affiliation, they make the leap. I also think that what happens with the BCS could be a factor as well. If a playoff gets implemented, BYU will not really need a conference, and odds are that they stand pat. WHat happens on the BCS front will be a huge factor.

As a fan, I will find it hard to enjoy many seasons where there is nothing to look forward to past the first 1- 1/2 months of the season and/or just seeing the likes of WAC teams filling our schedule. 2-fers will bring probably one good team a year and every other year we have Utah, but that will be the life of BYU. While that and other issues of money and exposure make it much better to be independent than in the MWC, I would have trouble believing lot of our issues can't be overcome by being a member of the Big 12.



As far as the WCC, they have been a very class act and you wish it would work out just to continue to play with a conference that respects you. I realize within a few years there will be more BYU haters from us being dominate if anything just in number of fans, but I still believe it could be that we still have a better relationship that we recently had in the MWC as it seemed like without exageration we were treated as the red-head step child.

Cougarbib2 wrote:
...Exposure would be the only real deterrent to going back into a conference and that would only apply to football because the other sports are already limited to a very limited conference for exposure. Big 12 would be more exposure for those sports. I would prefer PAC 12 but that ain't gonna happen any time soon. So football exposure would be the only argument against going Big 12 ...



Go Cougs

I would much prefer the Big 12 to the PAC 12. My only reason for wanting a PaC 12 deal is that I live in PAC 12 country, and I would be able to see more games in person. I think the Big 12 is a much better fit for BYU than the PAC.

I think the WCC deal works for us for many of the reason the MWC deal did not--we have leverage. First, when we joined the league, ESPN re-did the TV contract, so everyone got more $$. Which made everyone happy. Also, BYU has a BCS invite out, which means if it comes, the other knows the deal. Third, the WCC teams appreciate what BYU brings to the table, while the MWC teams pretty much never did. And fourth, the business and broadcast partners affiliated with the WCC appreciate BYU, while the MWC partners lacked that vision and appreciation.



I would be happy to go Big 12 football only, and perhaps some Olympic sports that need a home, and stay in the WCC for the rest. The WCC will be a great fit.

BYU won't turn down the Big 12 for football or for full membership. BYU and the WCC said all the right things when we joined. That does not mean BYU did not make it clear to every WCC president that we would take an invite to the Big 12.



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BYUcougfan wrote:
BYU won't turn down the Big 12 for football or for full membership. BYU and the WCC said all the right things when we joined. That does not mean BYU did not make it clear to every WCC president that we would take an invite to the Big 12.



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I agree. The football exposure would be comparable for BYU in the Big 12 vs. being indy. The basketball exposure and the exposure in other sports would be substantially greater in the Big 12. If exposure drives the athletic department, the Big 12 would be a no brainer.

mormonrasta wrote:
The basketball exposure and the exposure in other sports would be substantially greater in the Big 12.

I dunno about that. I seem to remember seeing more St. Mary's and Gonzaga games being pushed by ESPN last hoops season than Texas/Texas A&M games, and all the other Big XII teams kind of got the contractually obligated 'second-favorite' treatment. Add to that the fact that we would have to share that second-favorite spotlight with Baylor, Oklahoma, Texas Tech and Oklahoma State, and I'm not sure you even get the same amount of ink and run as you do as one of the top-three in the WCC.

snoscythe wrote:

The basketball exposure and the exposure in other sports would be substantially greater in the Big 12.

I dunno about that. I seem to remember seeing more St. Mary's and Gonzaga games being pushed by ESPN last hoops season than Texas/Texas A&M games, and all the other Big XII teams kind of got the contractually obligated 'second-favorite' treatment. Add to that the fact that we would have to share that second-favorite spotlight with Baylor, Oklahoma, Texas Tech and Oklahoma State, and I'm not sure you even get the same amount of ink and run as you do as one of the top-three in the WCC.

Agreed but only for basketball. And if BYUtv is third tier (like UT's station is) on the television contract you would get several BYU-OSU/Baylor/Ta&m games on BYUtv and you would get a ton of exposure for what BYU represents. Certainly more than USD or LMU. BB games against Kansas and Texas are primetime on ESPN, whereas games against SM and Gonzaga run at 12pm ET.



Bottom line is if they are interested in exposure they will accept an invite for the whole program. Thinking about BYU sports and BYUtv entirely as missionary tools, the best case scenario would be to skip from league to league every couple years.

CAFB_04-12 wrote:
I think you're spot on with #3. BYU has the entire lifetime of the ESPN contract to do whatever it wants as an independent. No need to negotiate with anyone till that contract comes due.

I also agree, really there is no telling what the football landscape will be in 8 years, maybe by then the big BC$ conferences will break away from the NCAA and form their own group.



I also chuckle at the idea the Y puts a lot of stock in conference loyalty. If you look at our history with the WAC split up and then the history of the Mountain, it appears to me that it's all about business. We were being taken advantage of in both cases and looked out for ourselves to get out. Not so much conference loyalty...



Go Cougs!



L Hatton

Louisville, KY

jvquarterback wrote:
Bottom line is if they are interested in exposure they will accept an invite for the whole program. Thinking about BYU sports and BYUtv entirely as missionary tools, the best case scenario would be to skip from league to league every couple years.

Doubt it. Can the Big XII get us seven games on ESPN or ESPN2 in a given season? Can any conference offer that? We've already got that in year #1 of independence. I don't know what this "exposure" everyone is looking for consists of, but having over half of your games shown on the #1 and #2 outlets for college football is something largely unprecedented. Even Florida only got 4 regular season appearances on ABC, ESPN, and ESPN2 during the peak of Tebow-mania in 2009. I don't understand how people think that joining a conference is going to increase exposure beyond what we are getting right now from ESPN as a football independent and under the new ESPN basketball contract with the WCC.



If it's all about exposure, right now joining another conference would represent a HUGE step backwards.

snoscythe wrote:

The basketball exposure and the exposure in other sports would be substantially greater in the Big 12.

I dunno about that. I seem to remember seeing more St. Mary's and Gonzaga games being pushed by ESPN last hoops season than Texas/Texas A&M games, and all the other Big XII teams kind of got the contractually obligated 'second-favorite' treatment. Add to that the fact that we would have to share that second-favorite spotlight with Baylor, Oklahoma, Texas Tech and Oklahoma State, and I'm not sure you even get the same amount of ink and run as you do as one of the top-three in the WCC.

Last year, Baylor was on ESPN/ESPN2 11 times, ESPNU 4 times, and had a visit from the basketball version of College Gameday.



Oklahoma St. was on ESPN/ESPN2 13 times and ESPNU 2 times.



St. Mary's was on ESPN/ESPN2 8 times (including the NIT) and had 4 appearances on ESPNU.



BU, OSU and St. Mary's were of similar quality last year. None of them made the NCAA tournament despite all of them spending some time in the rankings last year. Yet, Baylor and OSU got far more ESPN airtime than St. Mary's. If BYU isn't good they're not going to be on ESPN with any kind of regularity no matter what conference they are in, but if they are going to be good they would get far more publicity playing Kansas and Texas than Gonzaga and the seven dwarfs.