If Favors and Hayward are the guys

Keep in mind, if Favors and Hayward are the guys... Williams from Arizona makes noooooo sense.



Unless the Jazz believe that Enes Kanter can be a world class 5 man, (assuming he's there at 3) I think Utah has to consider trading that #3 pick.Here's my target team:

The Houston Rockets

Here are my target players

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2394/kevin-martin" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



when Kevin Martin is healthy, he's an all star and not only one of the top scorers in the game but one of the top outside shooters



that's not enough though for what a potential #3 gives, so Houston needs to give up their #14 pick and a solid bench guy like Chase Bundiger



The Rockets are desperate for size (yao ming is never going to be the guy) and the Jazz desperately need a scorer and a shooter at the 2. Houston is in rebuild mode and the Jazz become a playoff team with Martin, yet still retain the #12 and #14 picks.



With those they can take the best available at 12 and 14.



The Jazz do not need a 4/5 that would require starters minutes with Milsap, Jefferson, and Favors. The Jazz do not need a 3 if you believe that Hayward is the guy. The Jazz need a 2 in the worst way and there's none good enough to warrant the #3 pick.



if you could start a jefferson, milsap, hayward, martin, harris and then bring in favors, budinger, price, bell, miles, evans and then of course the two other draft picks... you'd have a very very good team in the west at a time when the west is fairly weak and aging (outside of OKC) .. you'd also have a team with youthful veterans and a very young and athletic bench



The Jazz's draw essentially means the franchise will turn one No. 3 pick (D-Will) into two No. 3 picks (Derrick Favors and ???) along with point guard Devin Harris, a future possible lottery pick from Golden State and a few million bucks.



In this scenario



DWIll = Derrick Favors, Devin Harris, Kevin Martin, the #14 pick in this years draft, a future possible lottery pick from Golden State a few million bucks and a complementary athletic bench player.



Considering Dwill was going to bolt after this season, that would be one hell of a haul and Kevin Martin would instantly turn this team into a contender, while in Houston, the cupboards so bare, they have to start over and Enes Kaners or Derrick Williams could be that guy and keep them excited



With the #12 and #14 picks, you could still wheel and deal to move up, or stand pat



My suggestion would be to grab Fredette at 12 and Kenneth Faried at 14



Faried will have a very long NBA career because he can rebound, block shots, and play D .... he can contribute asap because of it



Jimmer will have a very long NBA career because he can shoot the 3... something that teams are desperately missing (it's showing in the playoffs) as a result he can contribute asap



Next years team would then be:



Jefferson

Milsap (or favors)

Hayward

Martin

Harris



Favors

Faried

Bell --- (entirely possible that he'd be released under this scenario)

Miles

Evans

Price

(Budinger, assuming he's the athletic throw in)

Fredette



I'm a lifelong Lakers fan, but I could root for this team and they would win a lot of games in the west.. not to mention they could play together for quite some time.



If I'm the Jazz, I'm shipping that 3 pick and I'm on the phone with Houston asap. Enes Kanter will not solve Utahs problem at the 2, nor will he make for a very happy frontcourt.

Great analysis as usual. I like the prospects out there.

Good job. Now tell me about the team I care about--The Cleveland Cavs.

EM_Puma wrote:
Good job. Now tell me about the team I care about--The Cleveland Cavs.

They need so much help, that there's no reason for them to move out of those spots. They'll take Kyrie Irving and hope that either williams or kanter slides to them at 4.



I'm sure they're wishing that sullinger or barnes came out because that would guarantee them a stud at 4. As it is now, they might have to go with the big euro that reminds some of dirk... (course so have many euros that never made it here... ala milicic, etc.)



Cleveland will be back in the lottery next year... Utah should be too, but only because they hold someone elses pick.

I know a lot of people think this is a weak draft, but with two of the top four picks the Cavs could do very well.



I heard Jalen Rose say the Cavs should take Williams with the #1 pick. Sure, they'd lose out on Irving, but they'd stand a good chance of landing Knight or Walker at #4 to fill their PG needs.

craigoscarson wrote:
Keep in mind, if Favors and Hayward are the guys... Williams from Arizona makes noooooo sense.



Unless the Jazz believe that Enes Kanter can be a world class 5 man, (assuming he's there at 3) I think Utah has to consider trading that #3 pick.Here's my target team:

The Houston Rockets

Here are my target players

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2394/kevin-martin" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



when Kevin Martin is healthy, he's an all star and not only one of the top scorers in the game but one of the top outside shooters



that's not enough though for what a potential #3 gives, so Houston needs to give up their #14 pick and a solid bench guy like Chase Bundiger



The Rockets are desperate for size (yao ming is never going to be the guy) and the Jazz desperately need a scorer and a shooter at the 2. Houston is in rebuild mode and the Jazz become a playoff team with Martin, yet still retain the #12 and #14 picks.



With those they can take the best available at 12 and 14.



The Jazz do not need a 4/5 that would require starters minutes with Milsap, Jefferson, and Favors. The Jazz do not need a 3 if you believe that Hayward is the guy. The Jazz need a 2 in the worst way and there's none good enough to warrant the #3 pick.



if you could start a jefferson, milsap, hayward, martin, harris and then bring in favors, budinger, price, bell, miles, evans and then of course the two other draft picks... you'd have a very very good team in the west at a time when the west is fairly weak and aging (outside of OKC) .. you'd also have a team with youthful veterans and a very young and athletic bench



The Jazz's draw essentially means the franchise will turn one No. 3 pick (D-Will) into two No. 3 picks (Derrick Favors and ???) along with point guard Devin Harris, a future possible lottery pick from Golden State and a few million bucks.



In this scenario



DWIll = Derrick Favors, Devin Harris, Kevin Martin, the #14 pick in this years draft, a future possible lottery pick from Golden State a few million bucks and a complementary athletic bench player.



Considering Dwill was going to bolt after this season, that would be one hell of a haul and Kevin Martin would instantly turn this team into a contender, while in Houston, the cupboards so bare, they have to start over and Enes Kaners or Derrick Williams could be that guy and keep them excited



With the #12 and #14 picks, you could still wheel and deal to move up, or stand pat



My suggestion would be to grab Fredette at 12 and Kenneth Faried at 14



Faried will have a very long NBA career because he can rebound, block shots, and play D .... he can contribute asap because of it



Jimmer will have a very long NBA career because he can shoot the 3... something that teams are desperately missing (it's showing in the playoffs) as a result he can contribute asap



Next years team would then be:



Jefferson

Milsap (or favors)

Hayward

Martin

Harris



Favors

Faried

Bell --- (entirely possible that he'd be released under this scenario)

Miles

Evans

Price

(Budinger, assuming he's the athletic throw in)

Fredette



I'm a lifelong Lakers fan, but I could root for this team and they would win a lot of games in the west.. not to mention they could play together for quite some time.



If I'm the Jazz, I'm shipping that 3 pick and I'm on the phone with Houston asap. Enes Kanter will not solve Utahs problem at the 2, nor will he make for a very happy frontcourt.

Very good analysis. I hope the Jazz don't use the 3rd pick for a big man. If Williams drops to 3 then I think you take him and trade Miles or Hayward. I've been saying for a long time that the Jazz need an All-Star at the 2 spot in order to get back to the finals.



What do you think about Afflalo? He's improved a lot and could be a future all-star. Who would be better for the Jazz between Afflalo and Martin and would the Jazz even have a shot at getting Afflalo?

I get that success in NCAA /= success in the NBA. But Jimmer has played head to head with 2 of the guys ranked above him and smoked them 4/5 times. Why doesn't that count for anything?



And I know the NBA requires different skills etc... (trying to avoid the obvious retorts) but are we really saying that the consensus NPOY was really the 15th best professional player?



I suppose there's nothing wrong with "The Jimmer" going 12th or 15th, and then developing into the best player in the 2011 class where they can mock all the flame-outs that were taken before him in future ESPN documentaries.

Craig I think you overestimating the value of the 3rd pick in this year's draft.



I think Houston might be willing to trade Martin to Utah for the 3rd pick but the numbers don't work as Martin makes 12 mil next year. So you would have to sign AK for 10 mil and trade him to houston with the #3 pick.



Also why do we want Martin so badly? He averages 62 games played each season. He is a poor defensive player. So Hayward has to guard everyone? I think Hayward has more favorable matchups at the 2.



If Utah is going to do a trade with Houston I want Lowry. He is best player on that team.

Qman wrote:
Craig I think you overestimating the value of the 3rd pick in this year's draft.



I think Houston might be willing to trade Martin to Utah for the 3rd pick but the numbers don't work as Martin makes 12 mil next year. So you would have to sign AK for 10 mil and trade him to houston with the #3 pick.



Also why do we want Martin so badly? He averages 62 games played each season. He is a poor defensive player. So Hayward has to guard everyone? I think Hayward has more favorable matchups at the 2.



If Utah is going to do a trade with Houston I want Lowry. He is best player on that team.

You started this off by saying I overestimate the value of the #3 pick.... YET, you then state you would be asking for Houstons most valuable young player ... they would be much less willing to trade.



I'd say I value it just right. There isn't a player at 3 that makes Utah a contender in the next 3 years; there is value in that pick to other teams with longer time tables.



Kevin Martin played 80 games this year, averaged 32 minutes a game, a steal a game and is a very solid rebounder and defender. (in fact, he's been on the all defensive team in the past) Yes, he has had trouble staying healthy, some of it bad luck, some of it because he came into the league very very thin, which he has addressed physicially since.



Martin offers the thing that the Jazz need the absolute most, a Rip Hamilton (with a 3 pt shot) type that can score the ball plenty. Not only are those types of players the hardest to find in the draft, but most don't pan out as well rounded 2s. Martin is a guaranteed 20+ a game as a 6'7" shooting guard. The only gamble is his health and as we know the draft is always a gamble (ask Portland about Greg Oden, Detroit about Darko Milicic, etc. etc. etc.)



But remember I'm asking for Martin, the #14 pick and Chase Buddinger and/or Jordan Hill, etc. I have a hard time believing that Houston wouldn't listen and at the end of the day.... you're right, I actually might be overestimating the value of the pick, but those are the types of deals you want.



And to your statement about Kirilenko... I believe it's time to pack him in any deal. He's neither the present nor the future. In fact, the Jazz seem to be one of those teams that having cap money doesn't help them as free agents aren't dying to be in Utah.



This Deron Williams trade is paying off big time as it stands, but if the jazz can find a legit shooter and scorer at the 2, they're big time players in the West as early as next season.



To me, this is a win now proposition, with a twist... you actually might be able to get the future too. Add a 2 guard, and a couple borderline lottery picks at 12 and 14 along with a solid bench player (buddinger/ hill) and you can be a playoff team tommorrow, yet still have a ton of youth.





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To answer the question above about Aaaron Aflalo... I like him. He's a good defender, a solid shooter and scorer and was a nice pickup by Denver, but I don't put the same value on him as I do Kevin Martin, he's just not nearly as prolific a scorer and playmaker... and he isnt' known to create points on his own, as Martin can do.



If I were to explore a trade with Denver, it'd have to be for Afflalo, Ty Lawson, and their 1st round picks for the next 2 years... maybe too much for Denver, but nothing less would convince me that Utah got good value for the #3 pick.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. This year's 3rd pick is less valuable because of all the players that were projected in the top ten who pulled out. Barnes, Perry Jones, Terrence Jones, etc. This year's third pick is like another years 6th or 7th pick.



I also worry about a really thin guard line. Martin weaker than average for SG, Harris weaker than average for PG and Hayward weaker average for SF. Who guards the powerful 3's like Carmelo, Lebron and Joe Johnson?



The Kirlenko thing I threw in there because assuming the next CBA is similar to this one your proposed trade doesn't work. We aren't 11 mil under Salary Cap now and it is expect to go down in the new CBA.



If we are looking to make a move to win now I would far more interested in Andre Igoudala.

Since there is no CBA in place 6 days after the draft, there will be less trades than usual. No one knows what the situation will be for next year.



Houston has finished 9th the last two years in the west. They aren't that far off from where they need to be. Yao hardly played last year. They are building around Martin and Lowry going forward. They will not be making that trade.



Irving may be great, but he has already shown that he is fragile. What I don't get is Knight was the two-time high school player of the year, led his team to the final four (sure he had a couple stinker games, especially Princeton, but he did hit 2 game winning shots in the tournament), is smart and actually played the whole year, but now somehow he's not as good as Irving is, who wasn't as good as Knight just a year ago, played in 11 games, lost in the sweet 16 and is a Duke player. Duke players tend to under perform in the NBA.



Also, the Jazz should be satisfied with Hayward as a 2. He presents mis-matches because of his length and strength at that position. He's fast enough for the two, but can go down and guard most 3's as well. He can handle the ball very, very well for his size and has shown a descent shot. He is a taller version of Jeff Hornacek with not quite as good of a shot.



Derrick Williams might be the most OVERRATED player in this years draft. He's an undersized 4 man that many teams will try and move to the 3. He's basically Paul Millsap without an elite NBA skill. Millsap was an elite rebounder when he came into the NBA and only made it because he ended up on the right team with a coach that valued a guy that would just go get the ball. He's developed into a nice player, but may actually be less of a valuable commodity now that he doesn't rebound as well. Williams isn't big enough to play the 4, fast enough to play the 3, isn't really an elite scorer, rebounder or defender and will not be a great player in the NBA.



This draft will be one of the worst in the history of the league, and it happens to be the one that the Jazz have the 3rd pick in. Irving will be gone and either Kantor or Williams will go next leaving the Jazz with either one of those two or Knight. The Jazz have Jefferson, Favors, Millsap and Okur as the 4 bigs next year under contract. Those are actually some very good players to have and each offers something different. The Jazz need to shore up their back court with a PG and try and get some more bench shooting in this draft. I'm pretty sure that Jimmer will probably be gone by the time the 12th pick rolls around. I'm pretty sure that he will move up during the individual workouts, so the Jazz need to get the next best shooter. There are no impact 3 men in this draft, so the Jazz will either need to acquire one in trade/FA or resign AK for cheap and short term. He may not be an all-star anymore, but he fills a need. I doubt the Jazz will be the high bidder for him over the summer. He only stays in Utah if the Jazz get the home town discount.

stuckinbig10country wrote:
Derrick Williams might be the most OVERRATED player in this years draft. He's an undersized 4 man that many teams will try and move to the 3. He's basically Paul Millsap without an elite NBA skill. Millsap was an elite rebounder when he came into the NBA and only made it because he ended up on the right team with a coach that valued a guy that would just go get the ball. He's developed into a nice player, but may actually be less of a valuable commodity now that he doesn't rebound as well. Williams isn't big enough to play the 4, fast enough to play the 3, isn't really an elite scorer, rebounder or defender and will not be a great player in the NBA.

We are going to have to disagree about this completely.



First of all Derrick Williams is significantly longer and a little taller than Millsap.



Millsap measured 6'7.25" tall with shoes and a standing reach of 8'9.5".



Derrick Williams measured 6'8.75" with shoes and a standing reach of 9'0".



2nd of all at 19 years old Derrick Williams went 42 for 74 from the college 3 last season.



Millsap shot 5 for 14 in his final season.



That is a pretty significant difference is development.



Derrick William is flat out a much better talent than Millsap.



Don't get my wrong I like Millsap but he is a physically limited player who is maximizing his talent.



Derrick William's potential is bigger Paul Pierce or a more efficient Carmelo Anthony.

If williams is still there he is a no brainer. By far the best talent in the class and can play the 3 for the jazz with gordon at the 2 and favors and jefferson at the 4 5. They do not need to re sign miles or AK. Millsap can come off the bench and be a nice player. Harris can control the point and with the 12th pick you can get a hybrid 2 or 3 like berc from colorado. If williams is gone then you can take Canter or knight and be ok with either pick.

Qman wrote:

Derrick Williams might be the most OVERRATED player in this years draft. He's an undersized 4 man that many teams will try and move to the 3. He's basically Paul Millsap without an elite NBA skill. Millsap was an elite rebounder when he came into the NBA and only made it because he ended up on the right team with a coach that valued a guy that would just go get the ball. He's developed into a nice player, but may actually be less of a valuable commodity now that he doesn't rebound as well. Williams isn't big enough to play the 4, fast enough to play the 3, isn't really an elite scorer, rebounder or defender and will not be a great player in the NBA.

We are going to have to disagree about this completely.



First of all Derrick Williams is significantly longer and a little taller than Millsap.



Millsap measured 6'7.25" tall with shoes and a standing reach of 8'9.5".



Derrick Williams measured 6'8.75" with shoes and a standing reach of 9'0".



2nd of all at 19 years old Derrick Williams went 42 for 74 from the college 3 last season.



Millsap shot 5 for 14 in his final season.



That is a pretty significant difference is development.



Derrick William is flat out a much better talent than Millsap.



Don't get my wrong I like Millsap but he is a physically limited player who is maximizing his talent.



Derrick William's potential is bigger Paul Pierce or a more efficient Carmelo Anthony.

If Derrick Williams has that kind of potential, he'll be the #1 pick... Carmelo is in the discussion as one of the top 5 players in the world. There aren't any more efficient Carmelos on the entire planet.

Williams will be off the board. So will the big Turkey. Utah will have to choose between Irving and Brandon Knight from Kentucky. Different types of players, both young and raw, but talented. With a starter at point to sit behind, will be a solid pick to build around. Stockton sat behind Ricky Green for a while too. Utah needs a legit point. I like Harris, but do not love Harris. If Utah likes neither guy, I suspect we trade the pick and if we do, we grab Jimmer at #12.



Personally, I think Utah will trade the pick if the rght offer comes along. PGs are at a premium in the NBA now, so I suspect Utah is listening to everyone right now.

Lawboy wrote:
Williams will be off the board. So will the big Turkey. Utah will have to choose between Irving and Brandon Knight from Kentucky. Different types of players, both young and raw, but talented. With a starter at point to sit behind, will be a solid pick to build around. Stockton sat behind Ricky Green for a while too. Utah needs a legit point. I like Harris, but do not love Harris. If Utah likes neither guy, I suspect we trade the pick and if we do, we grab Jimmer at #12.



Personally, I think Utah will trade the pick if the rght offer comes along. PGs are at a premium in the NBA now, so I suspect Utah is listening to everyone right now.

agreed, Utah is a couple pieces away from being really good and between the risk of a bad pick (draft picks fail much more than they succeed) and the time it takes to develop any young guy (every player considered in the top 5 picks are 19 years old or younger for every Kevin Garnett there are 20 Corrie Brewer, Evan Turner, Darko Milicic, etc. etc. etc.) I think Utah should explore a trade. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Qman wrote:

Derrick Williams might be the most OVERRATED player in this years draft. He's an undersized 4 man that many teams will try and move to the 3. He's basically Paul Millsap without an elite NBA skill. Millsap was an elite rebounder when he came into the NBA and only made it because he ended up on the right team with a coach that valued a guy that would just go get the ball. He's developed into a nice player, but may actually be less of a valuable commodity now that he doesn't rebound as well. Williams isn't big enough to play the 4, fast enough to play the 3, isn't really an elite scorer, rebounder or defender and will not be a great player in the NBA.

We are going to have to disagree about this completely.



First of all Derrick Williams is significantly longer and a little taller than Millsap.



Millsap measured 6'7.25" tall with shoes and a standing reach of 8'9.5".



Derrick Williams measured 6'8.75" with shoes and a standing reach of 9'0".



2nd of all at 19 years old Derrick Williams went 42 for 74 from the college 3 last season.



Millsap shot 5 for 14 in his final season.



That is a pretty significant difference is development.



Derrick William is flat out a much better talent than Millsap.



Don't get my wrong I like Millsap but he is a physically limited player who is maximizing his talent.



Derrick William's potential is bigger Paul Pierce or a more efficient Carmelo Anthony.

Derrick Williams is more talented than Millsap. I will agree. Millsap had a special skill that was invaluable in the league. I think even though Millsap has improved his all around game, I don't think he's as valuable to any team since he doesn't rebound as well as he used to.



The problem with Derrick Williams is that he is undersized for the position that he plays. He is not fast enough offensively or defensively to play the 3. He is an undersized 4. That's what he is. He's closer to Carlos Boozer than Paul Pierce (doesn't have near the handles or speed or shot) or Carmelo Anthony (doesn't have the speed, could be more efficient, but a lot of players are more efficient than Anthony). Even at 1.5 inches taller with a 2.5 inch reach advantage compared to Millsap, he's still undersized for the 4. I would put Williams ceiling at the Carlos Boozer range. You see what he does when playing good teams with size at the 4. He disappears.

Looks like a deal for Kevin Martin OR Monta Ellis might be on the horizon provided that Cleveland and Minnesota don't muddy the waters with trades of their own.



I like to hear someone else mention Kevin Martin... I had a feeling it was a possibiity, but only based on what I've seen from Houston, Utah etc. It's nice to see some websites mention those names.



http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_110620.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



If someone else wants to gamble on Kanter, I say let them and go for the sure thing in a trade, you could address shooting guard, a forward (with the pick we get for moving back) and still have a shot at jimmer at 12. Everyone would be happy and the Jazz would be better for it.



If Kyrie Irving is there at 3 though, I don't see how the Jazz pass on him. When healthy (which is a question) he's as close to a Chris Paul type as the Jazz are going to see in a very long time... the question is will he want to stay with the Jazz? (another reason why Jimmer should be a palatable option; he'd stay his entire career in Utah and be happy)

Give up the 3rd pick for Kevin Martin, Chase Buddinger and the #14 pick



PIck up Jimmer at #12



Pick up Kenneth Faried at #14



then work on trading Millsap down the road ( a mid-season trade to Miami where they wouldn't have to worry about the cap, also gives Faried enough time to get aquainted to the league.... The Heat might gamble several years of picks to get Millsap to straighten out their soft post play)



You'd be adding Kevin Martin (starting sg, terrific scorer and shooter)

Chase Buddinger (solid bench guy decent outside shooter, solid slasher)

Jimmer (outstanding shooter)

Faried (best defender in the draft not named singleton, best rebounder bar none)



If they made those moves, I'd strongly consider splitting season tickets with my family members, inspite of the fact that I live halfway across the country. That team would not only be exciting to watch, but they'd leave it out on the floor every night.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o00Rh6Qdkow" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Faried remind me of an extremely athletic version of Udonis Haslem, but with no shot outside the paint.



Martin would be an awesome get for the jazz, I've always hated that guy cause he's so dang smooth.