Lack of BCS Deal is a Problem

I am worried about our shot at playing in the BCS. With TCU and Utah leaving and our espn deal that will increase our national exposure, it should get a lot easier for us to get a BCS bid each year, but the more I think about the less I agree with that notion.



Without a BCS agreement in place we are not in consideration for that non aq auto bid which takes one spot out of the 10 available. Notre Dame has their auto bid at 8 or better and then you have us who have to be 1 or 2 for an autobid.



So the bcs conference gobble up 6 of the spots. non aq take up one more spot. then nd if they have a half way decent year takes another. that leaves just two or three at best at large spots to give to anybody in the top 14 with 9 wins or more.



So our only way in is at large. This is not a good option when there are only 2 or 3 spots. While we do have a good national following we are still not on par with many of the other bcs schools that are going to be in the top 14 but didn't win their conference championship, ie texas, oklahoma, ohio state (teams that are almost always in top 14 even with two or three losses).



We need a deal with the bcs or we need to be lumped in with the nonaq contract.



I think getting into a bcs bowl as an indy is not going to be easy and i suspect there will be years that we get screwed. I had originally thought it would be easier for us to get into a bcs bowl year after year than utah but i am not so sure anymore given our lack of agreement with the bcs.

With our current Independent status, we have to be in top 14 to be considered for BCS bowl game. Let's look at the last two years who was within 10-14 range.



AP Top 25 2010:



10 Alabama 10-3 961

11 Nevada 13-1 866

12 Arkansas 10-3 863

13 Oklahoma State 11-2 833

14 Michigan State 11-2 696



2009:

10 Virginia Tech 10-3 953

11 Oregon 10-3 886

12 Brigham Young 11-2 806

13 Georgia Tech 11-3 768

14 Nebraska 10-4 724



USA Today Poll 2010:



10 Oklahoma State 11-2 883

11 Alabama 10-3 860

12 Arkansas 10-3 818

13 Nevada 13-1 734

14 Michigan State 11-2 676



2009:



10 Virginia Tech 10-3 940

11 Oregon 10-3 846

12 Brigham Young 11-2 814

13 Georgia Tech 11-3 741

14 Nebraska 10-4 671



Seems to me with the relationship we have with ESPN and the upcoming television exposure, as long as we have a good RPI, we should be able to fit within the top 14 this year and years to come.

Here's what a Navy fan learned:



http://fourthanddumb.com/?p=1057" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for contacting the BCS. The answer to your question is yes, Army and Navy could qualify for the BCS. Here’s the applicable rule:



“If berths are available after the automatic qualifiers have been identified, then the bowls shall select at-large participants from the “pool of eligible teams,” which shall include any Division I-A team that is bowl-eligible and meets the following requirements:



A. Has won at least nine regular-season games, not including exempted games, and



B. Is among the top 14 teams in the final BCS Standings.”



So what matters is their ranking on the day the standings come out.



We hope this helps.



Best wishes,



BCS

Conference affiliation is not a prerequisite for at large bids, but we do miss out on the autobid the non-AQ conferences got (champ of non-AQ conference ranked highest among nonAQ champs within the top-14). I don't have a lot of confidence in the MWC or WAC getting an AQ bid next season though.

I think we are in a better position now for many reasons, worse for one reason. Worse because under the MWC, we only had Boise State to beat and with 1-loss, we might still get in. The rest of the MWC is crapola. Let's be honest. Beating BSU is good for perception. But better because we have more games on ESPN now which improves visability, we are playing a few big games in big venues each year and winning those will help no matter what, and with ESPN televising the BCS bowls soon, let's not act like they won't have a say in who the at-large teams might be. Even if a minor role, their voice would only help.



Bottom Line is that we need to get top 8 to have a legit shot. Simple as that. That means 1 loss or fewer, so the path on how to do it in 2011 is clear. Go 11-1 or better.

Go undefeated two or three years in a row, and the auto bid will come calling.



Seriously though, the BCS will never withstand scrutiny, the BCS house of cards will collapse...and soon. Either from a law suit (Utah AG), or legislation (Congress), or the BCS darlings stumble into their automatic bids and all get clocked by non-BCS teams. The BCS does not hold the moral high ground here, it is only a matter of time, and the beast will come crashing down--probably overnight.

I think that access to the BCS was not the primary motivator of the independence movement.

byucougar1 wrote:
With our current Independent status, we have to be in top 14 to be considered for BCS bowl game. Let's look at the last two years who was within 10-14 range.



AP Top 25 2010:



10 Alabama 10-3 961

11 Nevada 13-1 866

12 Arkansas 10-3 863

13 Oklahoma State 11-2 833

14 Michigan State 11-2 696



2009:

10 Virginia Tech 10-3 953

11 Oregon 10-3 886

12 Brigham Young 11-2 806

13 Georgia Tech 11-3 768

14 Nebraska 10-4 724



USA Today Poll 2010:



10 Oklahoma State 11-2 883

11 Alabama 10-3 860

12 Arkansas 10-3 818

13 Nevada 13-1 734

14 Michigan State 11-2 676



2009:



10 Virginia Tech 10-3 940

11 Oregon 10-3 846

12 Brigham Young 11-2 814

13 Georgia Tech 11-3 741

14 Nebraska 10-4 671



Seems to me with the relationship we have with ESPN and the upcoming television exposure, as long as we have a good RPI, we should be able to fit within the top 14 this year and years to come.

You have to look at the top 10 in there as well. there are teams there who were not conference champs that would likely be picked by the bowls with the remaining 2 to 3 spots.



take last year. ohio state, stanford, and arkansas were all invited with the three at large spots that were left after the auto bids. stanford was ranked 4 with 1 loss, ohio state was ranked 6 with 1 loss, and arkansas was ranked 8 with 2 losses.



you might as well just delete one of the at large bids to the sec as well. that would leave 2 spots or 1 if nd it top 8. I am telling you, even being top eight doesn't get us in. And I would definitely disagree with the point that byu has to win 11 games or more and their in. byu must go undefeated if they want in in my opinion. there is no way byu gets in with one loss even if they are ranked in the top 8 ahead of teams like arkansas, florida, alabama or other with one loss or even two.



I think the bottom line is that byu must go undefeated which is no easy task.



don't mean to be a downer. i just think that as far as independence goes, this is our biggest downside. I really wish we were still a part of the non aq auto bid. That would have us sitting very pretty with a very good shot at bcs every year. We still have a good shot, but the road is harder than I think most fans think.



we are really fighting for two spots the way things are currently set up. if nd has a good year, one spot. the sec always gets two. when was the last time they didn't get two?

I'm not concerned about the BCS at all. BYU hasn't played like a BCS contender for at least the last 20 years with the exception of 1996. In the last two decades BYU has exactly 1 win vs. a team that finished in the top 15 in TWENTY SEVEN tries. Bronco is 0-7 against such competition and the only game that he has been within two touchdowns of an opponent of that caliber was his first game against TCU.



Look, BYU has been good recently, but nowhere near great. At large teams that play in BCS games are generally great. I'd like to see the program build a track record of greatness before I start sweating about playing in bowls against other truly great teams.



My concern is the bowls that BYU will regularly be playing in. The negotiating period for most bowls is still a couple of years away, but I'm afraid that BYU won't be able to strike a deal with the middle tier bowl games that would be a nice landing spot for our traditionally good program. If BYU can't get into the mix with bowls like the Holiday, Sun, or Insight, then we're stuck in the Kraft Mac N Cheese Bowl for a long period of time. I think it is going to be really hard to be viewed as anything other than minor league when a "good" season for BYU means a trip to Boise to play a MAC team on the Blue Turf.

The only BCS game I care about is the national championship game... Really ...how excited can you get to be paid more to say that you're not number one? At least we get to pocket all of our bowl money now (and not share it)



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mormonrasta wrote:
I'm not concerned about the BCS at all. BYU hasn't played like a BCS contender for at least the last 20 years with the exception of 1996. In the last two decades BYU has exactly 1 win vs. a team that finished in the top 15 in TWENTY SEVEN tries. Bronco is 0-7 against such competition and the only game that he has been within two touchdowns of an opponent of that caliber was his first game against TCU.



Look, BYU has been good recently, but nowhere near great. At large teams that play in BCS games are generally great. I'd like to see the program build a track record of greatness before I start sweating about playing in bowls against other truly great teams.



My concern is the bowls that BYU will regularly be playing in. The negotiating period for most bowls is still a couple of years away, but I'm afraid that BYU won't be able to strike a deal with the middle tier bowl games that would be a nice landing spot for our traditionally good program. If BYU can't get into the mix with bowls like the Holiday, Sun, or Insight, then we're stuck in the Kraft Mac N Cheese Bowl for a long period of time. I think it is going to be really hard to be viewed as anything other than minor league when a "good" season for BYU means a trip to Boise to play a MAC team on the Blue Turf.

Amen. BYU is a predictably good program. We have gotten trounced by just about every great or highly athletic program in recent memory. The team hasn't accomplished anything that warrants favorable BCS access. We'll see if this ever changes, but the HC still lives on and will always hinder the attraction of talent.

Starting next year, BSU will be our only real competition. Since we have them on the schedule, it is simply a matter of beating them. BSU proved last year that you don't need an auto bid to get in to a BCS bowl as a non-AQ.

mizzoucoug wrote:

I'm not concerned about the BCS at all. BYU hasn't played like a BCS contender for at least the last 20 years with the exception of 1996. In the last two decades BYU has exactly 1 win vs. a team that finished in the top 15 in TWENTY SEVEN tries. Bronco is 0-7 against such competition and the only game that he has been within two touchdowns of an opponent of that caliber was his first game against TCU.



Look, BYU has been good recently, but nowhere near great. At large teams that play in BCS games are generally great. I'd like to see the program build a track record of greatness before I start sweating about playing in bowls against other truly great teams.



My concern is the bowls that BYU will regularly be playing in. The negotiating period for most bowls is still a couple of years away, but I'm afraid that BYU won't be able to strike a deal with the middle tier bowl games that would be a nice landing spot for our traditionally good program. If BYU can't get into the mix with bowls like the Holiday, Sun, or Insight, then we're stuck in the Kraft Mac N Cheese Bowl for a long period of time. I think it is going to be really hard to be viewed as anything other than minor league when a "good" season for BYU means a trip to Boise to play a MAC team on the Blue Turf.

Amen. BYU is a predictably good program. We have gotten trounced by just about every great or highly athletic program in recent memory. The team hasn't accomplished anything that warrants favorable BCS access. We'll see if this ever changes, but the HC still lives on and will always hinder the attraction of talent.

word. ditto to both. well said.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

mormonrasta wrote:
I'm not concerned about the BCS at all. BYU hasn't played like a BCS contender for at least the last 20 years with the exception of 1996. In the last two decades BYU has exactly 1 win vs. a team that finished in the top 15 in TWENTY SEVEN tries. Bronco is 0-7 against such competition and the only game that he has been within two touchdowns of an opponent of that caliber was his first game against TCU.



Look, BYU has been good recently, but nowhere near great. At large teams that play in BCS games are generally great. I'd like to see the program build a track record of greatness before I start sweating about playing in bowls against other truly great teams.



My concern is the bowls that BYU will regularly be playing in. The negotiating period for most bowls is still a couple of years away, but I'm afraid that BYU won't be able to strike a deal with the middle tier bowl games that would be a nice landing spot for our traditionally good program. If BYU can't get into the mix with bowls like the Holiday, Sun, or Insight, then we're stuck in the Kraft Mac N Cheese Bowl for a long period of time. I think it is going to be really hard to be viewed as anything other than minor league when a "good" season for BYU means a trip to Boise to play a MAC team on the Blue Turf.

Amen. BYU is a predictably good program. We have gotten trounced by just about every great or highly athletic program in recent memory. The team hasn't accomplished anything that warrants favorable BCS access. We'll see if this ever changes, but the HC still lives on and will always hinder the attraction of talent.

word. ditto to both. well said.

You guys hold byu to a higher standard than most non aq schools then. what did bus or utah do to be allowed into a bcs game? they sure as heck didn't beat top ten teams to get there. being worthy of being in a bcs game does not mean you have to be florida or alabama calibur program. Just think of all the crappy teams that go the bcs games each year. big east, acc, hawaii, etc.



the bcs is where the prestige and respect is at. that is where we want to be. we don't have to be on par with texas or florida to feel that we should be included.

I would like to think that if BYU is undefeated, then a BCS bid cannot be denied.



But without a written guarantee, then I have serious reservations.



1996 says it all.



The Bowl Alliance was an agreement between the ACC, Big East, Big 8/12, SWC, and SEC.



What happened when BYU was the third highest ranked team available and a no brainer for an at-large invite? Big Ten school Penn State got the call.



The Big Ten was not even part of the Bowl Alliance. What obligation did the Bowl Alliance have to include the Big Ten? In fact, denying Penn State would have put more pressure on the Big Ten to join the Alliance. (You want our big fat bowl pay checks? Make concessions with the Rose Bowl and join the party.)



The Bowl Alliance people had a hidden agenda then to exclude the "mid-major" schools at all costs back then. The BCS people continue that agenda today.



Without the pressure of leaving an undefeated BYU, ranked in the top 3 or 4, out the BCS will NOT invite BYU, unless some other written contract requires it.

Y12 wrote:
Without the pressure of leaving an undefeated BYU, ranked in the top 3 or 4, out the BCS will NOT invite BYU, unless some other written contract requires it.

This is why I think the difficulty of getting to a BCS game isn't that much more difficult. When has a non-BCS team ever made it without going undefeated? Never



Without being in a BCS conference, it's undefeated or bust. TCU-BSU proved that an undefeated "mid-major" will get an at-large bid.

Y12 wrote:

The Bowl Alliance people had a hidden agenda then to exclude the "mid-major" schools at all costs back then. The BCS people continue that agenda today.

That is simply not true. There was and is no hidden agenda. Their agenda is perfectly clear, $$$$$. BYU was denied a Fiesta Bowl berth because a more popular and legendary program that brings more dollars to the table was available and their #7 ranking made the invite justifiable.



If what you said was true, BSU doesn't get an invite to the Fiesta Bowl two years ago. The fact is that the major bowls are actually becoming more and more inclusive, albeit reluctantly, over the last 2 decades.

jonnylingo wrote:

You guys hold byu to a higher standard than most non aq schools then. what did bus or utah do to be allowed into a bcs game? they sure as heck didn't beat top ten teams to get there. being worthy of being in a bcs game does not mean you have to be florida or alabama calibur program. Just think of all the crappy teams that go the bcs games each year. big east, acc, hawaii, etc.



the bcs is where the prestige and respect is at. that is where we want to be. we don't have to be on par with texas or florida to feel that we should be included.

We have to hold BYU to a higher standard because unfortunately BYU's track record doesn't justify a special deal with the BCS. And by going independent, our only shot at the BCS is throwing ourselves in the at-large pool which as we learned in 1996 we have to be SUBSTANTIALLY better than the legacy programs that are eligible for at large consideration otherwise BYU won't get an invite.



If 12-0 BYU is ranked #3 and 11-1 Michigan is ranked #5 who is the Sugar Bowl going to take? Michigan of course. BYU needs to be in a BSU situation in 2009 where BYU beats a top 15 program like Oregon, goes undefeated, and hope that no traditional powers are ranked within 5 spots of BYU. I'm not holding my breath that this will happen anytime soon.



The good news is that Bronco has managed to reverse most of the negative trends that have afflicted the program. I am hopeful that he might be able to overcome BYU's current relative mediocrity against the best teams in the country leading to a greater possibility of BCS inclusion.

jonnylingo wrote:

mizzoucoug wrote:

I'm not concerned about the BCS at all. BYU hasn't played like a BCS contender for at least the last 20 years with the exception of 1996. In the last two decades BYU has exactly 1 win vs. a team that finished in the top 15 in TWENTY SEVEN tries. Bronco is 0-7 against such competition and the only game that he has been within two touchdowns of an opponent of that caliber was his first game against TCU.



Look, BYU has been good recently, but nowhere near great. At large teams that play in BCS games are generally great. I'd like to see the program build a track record of greatness before I start sweating about playing in bowls against other truly great teams.



My concern is the bowls that BYU will regularly be playing in. The negotiating period for most bowls is still a couple of years away, but I'm afraid that BYU won't be able to strike a deal with the middle tier bowl games that would be a nice landing spot for our traditionally good program. If BYU can't get into the mix with bowls like the Holiday, Sun, or Insight, then we're stuck in the Kraft Mac N Cheese Bowl for a long period of time. I think it is going to be really hard to be viewed as anything other than minor league when a "good" season for BYU means a trip to Boise to play a MAC team on the Blue Turf.

Amen. BYU is a predictably good program. We have gotten trounced by just about every great or highly athletic program in recent memory. The team hasn't accomplished anything that warrants favorable BCS access. We'll see if this ever changes, but the HC still lives on and will always hinder the attraction of talent.

word. ditto to both. well said.

You guys hold byu to a higher standard than most non aq schools then. what did bus or utah do to be allowed into a bcs game? they sure as heck didn't beat top ten teams to get there. being worthy of being in a bcs game does not mean you have to be florida or alabama calibur program. Just think of all the crappy teams that go the bcs games each year. big east, acc, hawaii, etc.



the bcs is where the prestige and respect is at. that is where we want to be. we don't have to be on par with texas or florida to feel that we should be included.

Easy, both these teams have beaten BYU when they were ranked teams, and had one or no loss seasons.



When have we done that in the BCS era?

I just don't think BYU will have that much of a problem if we win our games. The problem the BCS has with non-AQ programs, in general, is a lack of interest which translates into a lack of advertising dollars. Extending an auto bid to the AQs means they may end up with a Wyoming, CSU, SJSU, Troy, NMSU, etc. in one of their bowls. That is a disaster.



BYU has proven to be a good bowl draw and good TV draw. Just win baby!

mormonrasta wrote:

The Bowl Alliance people had a hidden agenda then to exclude the "mid-major" schools at all costs back then. The BCS people continue that agenda today.

That is simply not true. There was and is no hidden agenda. Their agenda is perfectly clear, $$$$$. BYU was denied a Fiesta Bowl berth because a more popular and legendary program that brings more dollars to the table was available and their #7 ranking made the invite justifiable.



If what you said was true, BSU doesn't get an invite to the Fiesta Bowl two years ago. The fact is that the major bowls are actually becoming more and more inclusive, albeit reluctantly, over the last 2 decades.

The ONLY reason Boise State got in two years ago is because no other team from the BCS AQ conferences had 1 or 2 losses. Three loss teams do not get into the BCS unless they are AQ teams.