Fitness and bikini competitions

Good or bad for a Mormon?



How do you guys view the topic? Guys stripping down to a speedo and woman wearing bikinis, on a stage. Basically naked except for a tiny piece of clothing covering their privates. They do all this, so the audience and judges can view, judge, I'd even say lust after their "temples"... Their bodies.



My wife's friend who is a bishop prepared for one of these, but pulled out at the last minute, because he wasn't sure how that was gonna look to others in his ward, stake, etc...



Personally I'm against it, but want to hear an outsiders point of view.



What say ye?



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Zero problem with it. My uncle was a bodybuilder. I went to one of his competitions up at some high school in Salt Lake and was...well...it was odd for me. Immoral? No.



The word "lust" has undergone a modern facelift. The word as it was used in Jesus' time when he said, "Whosoever shall look upon a woman (woman, meaning someone's wife. A non-married woman would have been called a maiden or a virgin) to lust after her, he hath committed adultery already in his heart" had a different connotation than it does now.



Lust at that time didn't just mean to enjoy the way a woman looked and to entertain sexual fantasies about her. (Without sexual fantasies, how would any procreating get done on this planet?) It actually meant to seek to obtain her for himself even though she "belonged" to someone else already. That's why lust can be used when referring to someone's attitude towards money or other objects not belonging to them. It isn't necessarily a sexual thing but is more an inappropriate effort made to take from someone else by unworthy or illegal means something that rightfully belongs to them.



So personally, I see nothing wrong with looking at some hot babe up on stage and thinking, "Dang. Like to get me something LIKE that." Just so long as she's not someone's wife already and I'm thinking, "Dang. I GOT to get me some of THAT" and then actually make an attempt to do so. Our understanding of the word "lust" is so far out of wack in our day that we've got men running around like chickens with their heads cut off in this church feeling guilty for every thought they have and everything they look at because they think they've disobeyed the words of the Savior regarding lust. It's sad, really. We've reverted back to the dark ages where we believe the body is so sacred that it's really just an evil soul trap to anybody who doesn't vigilantly guard their thoughts. We've moved backwards in this regard, thinking we're just "obeying a higher law." Yeah, the Pharisees thought that way too.



Personally though, at the competition I went to, I didn't find a single one of those female fitness competitors attractive. I know for a fact they all use steroids to beef up for those and there is nothing attractive to me about a woman looking like a man. I've also heard from many, many women, and seen many, many polls that say that male bodybuilders have gone so far off the spectrum with their musculature that they are no longer physically appealing.

What you are showing off is your muscle tone, size, definition, symmetry, etc. which you can't very well do in a normal swimsuit. As long as you're doing it only during the competition, I see no problem with it. Just as LDS pro athletes play on Sundays, LDS models/bodybuilders make personal choices that may be difficult for everyone else to understand, but I don't they're doing anything wrong or being bad role models at all.

Dave-

I'll use a different word instead of lust. Covet.



What about the bikini competitions these bodybuilding shows have?



This isn't for body building. Its for woman get get up and walk around showing off their goods. Not woman who have taken steriods.

The true answer to this is to follow the council of the First Presidency, if they haven't spoken specifically about it, then pray and the lord will guide in whats right for you, and allow others to do the same.

hawkwing wrote:
The true answer to this is to follow the council of the First Presidency, if they haven't spoken specifically about it, then pray and the lord will guide in whats right for you, and allow others to do the same.

Prophets of God have always counseled His children to dress modestly. The way you dress is a reflection of what you are on the inside. Your dress and grooming send messages about you to others and influence the way you and others act. When you are well groomed and modestly dressed, you invite the companionship of the Spirit and can exercise a good influence on those around you.



Never lower your dress standards for any occasion. Doing so sends the message that you are using your body to get attention and approval and that modesty is important only when it is convenient.

snoscythe wrote:

The true answer to this is to follow the council of the First Presidency, if they haven't spoken specifically about it, then pray and the lord will guide in whats right for you, and allow others to do the same.

Prophets of God have always counseled His children to dress modestly. The way you dress is a reflection of what you are on the inside. Your dress and grooming send messages about you to others and influence the way you and others act. When you are well groomed and modestly dressed, you invite the companionship of the Spirit and can exercise a good influence on those around you.



Never lower your dress standards for any occasion. Doing so sends the message that you are using your body to get attention and approval and that modesty is important only when it is convenient.

Don't know that I agree with you 100% here Sno. I dress differently to go swimming than I regularly dress, many olympians wear skin-tight outfits that give them advantages in many sports, UFC fighters go shirtless in their sport and wear skin tight shorts to avoid disadvantaging themselves, etc. basketball players wear tank tops, and I don't find any of this to be using their bodies to get attention and approval or lowering their standards and I don't see it as going against the counsel of Church leaders. Bodybuilding, while riddled with steroids and scandal (what sports aren't, nowadays?), is legitimate enough for me to say that if the person has prayed about it and feels ok about competing, then it's ok by me. Bikini competitions, if they are not fitness competitions, are on the other side of the line and I don't support them.

Schmoe wrote:

hawkwing wrote:
The true answer to this is to follow the council of the First Presidency, if they haven't spoken specifically about it, then pray and the lord will guide in whats right for you, and allow others to do the same.

Prophets of God have always counseled His children to dress modestly. The way you dress is a reflection of what you are on the inside. Your dress and grooming send messages about you to others and influence the way you and others act. When you are well groomed and modestly dressed, you invite the companionship of the Spirit and can exercise a good influence on those around you.



Never lower your dress standards for any occasion. Doing so sends the message that you are using your body to get attention and approval and that modesty is important only when it is convenient.

Don't know that I agree with you 100% here Sno. I dress differently to go swimming than I regularly dress, many olympians wear skin-tight outfits that give them advantages in many sports, UFC fighters go shirtless in their sport and wear skin tight shorts to avoid disadvantaging themselves, etc. basketball players wear tank tops, and I don't find any of this to be using their bodies to get attention and approval or lowering their standards and I don't see it as going against the counsel of Church leaders. Bodybuilding, while riddled with steroids and scandal (what sports aren't, nowadays?), is legitimate enough for me to say that if the person has prayed about it and feels ok about competing, then it's ok by me. Bikini competitions, if they are not fitness competitions, are on the other side of the line and I don't support them.

Don't tell me you disagree. Tell the First Presidency who put that text in the latest iteration of "For the Strength of Youth."

I respect your opinion, and I've definitely read the "For the Strength of Youth" pamphlet my fair share of times (I work mostly with youth in my church calling, my job, and coaching), but I think you may be looking a little too intensely at the letter of the law.



We obviously need to state things very strongly when speaking to the youth of the church, because we all know that many young people look for any loophole they can and like to live as close to the edge as possible (see: BYU kids who went to Vegas, got married, got annulments). However, I think it is important that we realize that there are situations where we can ask the Lord for guidance in individual matters. Again, I don't know how to use better wording, because the way I've said it opens a floodgate for double-standards and hypocrisy.



I would like to hear what you think about things like swimming, wrestling, olympic sports, etc. But if you're reasoning is simply "I know not, save the Lord God hath commanded," then I understand that as well and will simply agree to see the situation differently, no harm, no foul.

Schmoe wrote:
I respect your opinion, and I've definitely read the "For the Strength of Youth" pamphlet my fair share of times (I work mostly with youth in my church calling, my job, and coaching), but I think you may be looking a little too intensely at the letter of the law.



We obviously need to state things very strongly when speaking to the youth of the church, because we all know that many young people look for any loophole they can and like to live as close to the edge as possible (see: BYU kids who went to Vegas, got married, got annulments). However, I think it is important that we realize that there are situations where we can ask the Lord for guidance in individual matters. Again, I don't know how to use better wording, because the way I've said it opens a floodgate for double-standards and hypocrisy.



I would like to hear what you think about things like swimming, wrestling, olympic sports, etc. But if you're reasoning is simply "I know not, save the Lord God hath commanded," then I understand that as well and will simply agree to see the situation differently, no harm, no foul.

I agree with you on all points up until we get to the bikini and fitness competitions at point here. I've wrestled since I was six up until BYU cut the program. But the bikini competitions and fitness competitions are where the line gets drawn for me. I think that wrestling, swimming, and sports are easily distinguished from the bikini and fitness competitions. The wrestling singlet is a safety device---loose clothing is a hazard and I have seen more fingers and wrists broken in practice when they get caught in a loose shirt than in any other instance. In competitive swimming, the suit serves the purpose of reducing drag and in recreational swimming swimwear reduces risk of hypothermia. Acknowledging that much, it should be noted that this is not an excuse to mosey down the streets in your singlet or speedo. You seek to be as modest as the event allows (e.g. no bikinis and 70's era singlets), and as soon as possible you cover back up.



I hope you can see the distinction between those events and fitness or bikini competitions where the ONLY reason to wear otherwise immodest clothing is to expose one's body. At that point the only utilitarian point in the immodest act is the immodesty itself.

Shoot you beat me to the wrestling singlets! :) Trust me I "covered up" ASAP! Every guy on the team hated those things but we did wear them. I have to chime in that in a sense of "brotherhood" to the bodybuilders, bikers, etc. But on the "bikini" contest, the whole concept is flawed in that it was a way to "sex" up beauty contests. So on it's own merits they fall on the side of evil. That said, it has become one of the necessary "evils" for those that wish to participate in contests like Miss Universe etc. In those cases I think the event should be a "swimwear" event that would then allow for single piece suits. And personally I think the single piece suits are better fashioned and more flattering than the bikini's anyways. If you ever saw a 9 month pregnant woman in a bikini-especially when you are around age 14 you can imagine the trauma! :) (Surfing with friends at Sunset beach when I was a kid). I actually think they could do away with the "lust" competition and spend more time on the early education, here is what a thought looks like and how it should sound phase of the event.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww

From the keys of me, the moderator: Hello folks, I am your friendly, resident site owner. I just wanted to let you know that this topic got horribly off topic almost from the very beginning, and snowballed from there. I have gone through and deleted all the off topic posts, the disrespectful and unacceptable posts and those that replied to them. This means some posts may have been removed that were fine, but were off topic.



From the keys of me, the user: The scriptures, both ancient and modern have warned about the dangers of lust and the modern prophets, and only the modern prophets have the authority to define what that means, and they have, clearly. Sno and Schmoe have interesting thoughts on what side of the line the fitness competition falls on, both agree that bikini competitions are on the other side of that line (which I agree with).



In regards to the fitness competition, all I can say is that I wouldn't do it myself, but I wouldn't condemn someone who did. Though, along with the bishop, if I were in a leadership position, its probably safer to err on the side of caution and avoid the appearance of evil.

snoscythe wrote:

I respect your opinion, and I've definitely read the "For the Strength of Youth" pamphlet my fair share of times (I work mostly with youth in my church calling, my job, and coaching), but I think you may be looking a little too intensely at the letter of the law.



We obviously need to state things very strongly when speaking to the youth of the church, because we all know that many young people look for any loophole they can and like to live as close to the edge as possible (see: BYU kids who went to Vegas, got married, got annulments). However, I think it is important that we realize that there are situations where we can ask the Lord for guidance in individual matters. Again, I don't know how to use better wording, because the way I've said it opens a floodgate for double-standards and hypocrisy.



I would like to hear what you think about things like swimming, wrestling, olympic sports, etc. But if you're reasoning is simply "I know not, save the Lord God hath commanded," then I understand that as well and will simply agree to see the situation differently, no harm, no foul.

I agree with you on all points up until we get to the bikini and fitness competitions at point here. I've wrestled since I was six up until BYU cut the program. But the bikini competitions and fitness competitions are where the line gets drawn for me. I think that wrestling, swimming, and sports are easily distinguished from the bikini and fitness competitions. The wrestling singlet is a safety device---loose clothing is a hazard and I have seen more fingers and wrists broken in practice when they get caught in a loose shirt than in any other instance. In competitive swimming, the suit serves the purpose of reducing drag and in recreational swimming swimwear reduces risk of hypothermia. Acknowledging that much, it should be noted that this is not an excuse to mosey down the streets in your singlet or speedo. You seek to be as modest as the event allows (e.g. no bikinis and 70's era singlets), and as soon as possible you cover back up.



I hope you can see the distinction between those events and fitness or bikini competitions where the ONLY reason to wear otherwise immodest clothing is to expose one's body. At that point the only utilitarian point in the immodest act is the immodesty itself.

So, we essentially agree on everything, even bikini comps. The only place we differ is that I see bodybuilding comps as ok.

I agree with Sno. I believe these competitions are to show off one's body. They are there to be judged on their body alone. Not their athleticism. They strip down to nothing and show off their "temple".



People come to watch, to see these guys/woman show off their stuff. They come to "lust" and "covet" after something. Whether they want those same abs, tri's, back, etc...



As for a bishop doing any of this. He's a leader and people turn to him for Spiritual guidance. If my bishop was competing in something like this, then advising me not to go to Hooters. He lost all credibility in my eyes. Cause I'm just going for their food and beer... I mean Pepsi.



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Arnold Friberg's Abinidi looks like he is a huge fan of bodybuilding competitions.



King Noah on the other hand, still has work to do.



If bodybuilding comes down to coveting we'll have to consider any competition/sport. How many young kids covet the profession of NBA or NFL players. Or even Jimmer/Heaps/Hall etc. Doesn't mean that those things should be banned.



Now, the modesty aspect of it. I don't appreciate the immodesty in the bodybuilding competitions. Find it to be a little too much. Maybe it just makes me insecure about my own body though. ;) I find bikini competitions a way to simply get a girl to take off their clothes in front of people in an acceptable way. Not something I would want my daughter to ever participate in. But then, I was surprised when the BYU women's volleyball team went with the spandex shorts back around 2000. Even the football uniforms are pretty "revealing" nowadays.



Not that this pertains to this discussion but didn't greek olympians compete in the buff, if that was the style today, would LDS athletes still compete?? It's all a matter of personal decision I guess. Glad it's one of those things that I'll never have to decide if you know what I mean :lol: .