Racism at BYU

In light of the recent controversy surrounding "the article" I wanted to share my view of racism at BYU, being a current student there.



Ahem. There is no racism at BYU.



If what the article is reporting is true, and black people take up such a large percentage of all HC expulsions, etc, then I think I know the reason for it, and it isn't racism. It's adulation.



My best buddy growing up here is black. He was a social retard. His idea of a good time was sitting inside all day playing Mortal Kombat. (I kid you not, he beat the game without taking a SINGLE hit once. Spent a whole weak trying to achieve that.) Despite his hermit-like life there wasn't a single person in this valley that didn't know who he was; or at least it seemed that way to me. When I could finally convince him to put down the controller and come hang out with us at the mall (it had an arcade) or just to cruise around looking for chicks, this guy got "helloes" shouted at him from every which way, by name, all day, all the time, everywhere.



My roommate just told me about a little trip he took to Denny's with some of BYU's basketball team. But who is the guy everyone at Denny's says hello to? Charles Abouo. Big surprise.



Why is this? I'm not sure, but I think it's just a supply and demand thing. I've met VERY few Mormons who don't like black people, but I've met a TON who can't seem to get enough of them. People in Provo pay SO much attention to black, non-LDS athletes at BYU for so many reasons BESIDES racism that I'm not surprised that people translate all that attention INTO racism, oddly enough. If everywhere you went, people were watching you, you might ask yourself if it was because they didn't trust you. When in actuality, people watch them so closely because they are so friggin RARE around here.



So IF black players get ousted more on HC issues than other groups, I would bet it has something to do with all the extra POSITIVE attention they get for being black, not because anybody here hates black people.

To address an article about BYU without really going into LDS culture is dumb. I can understand non-LDS having issues at BYU over cultural things ebcause we Mormons are different, and that is a fact. WE have our own lingo, our own social customs, etc. For outsiders, can be an adjustment. Add to it how LDS are raised to look at alcohol, etc., and it really is different, even for devout non-LDS. Racisim can happen on a small scale, but it is not institutional or widespread. But cultural issues can be.

His analysis is correct, but his reasoning isn't. There are vast discrepancies in the number of people penalized publicly by failing to live the Honor Code. But the largest underlying factor isn't race, it's being non-LDS.

SpiffCoug wrote:
His analysis is correct, but his reasoning isn't. There are vast discrepancies in the number of people penalized publicly by failing to live the Honor Code. But the largest underlying factor isn't race, it's being non-LDS.

THAT seems very likely to me.

taekwondave wrote:

His analysis is correct, but his reasoning isn't. There are vast discrepancies in the number of people penalized publicly by failing to live the Honor Code. But the largest underlying factor isn't race, it's being non-LDS.

THAT seems very likely to me.

And it's probably as obvious a factor as race, and probably plays an even larger role. Hopefully, in this guy's book his research is a little more balanced and show other factors that may be in play.



I do think the HC could use some revamping and I do think BYU football is doing a better job at teaching the HC and providing ways for non-LDS to succeed here as well.

I'm racist towards racism. :)

taekwondave wrote:
In light of the recent controversy surrounding "the article" I wanted to share my view of racism at BYU, being a current student there.



Ahem. There is no racism at BYU.



If what the article is reporting is true, and black people take up such a large percentage of all HC expulsions, etc, then I think I know the reason for it, and it isn't racism. It's adulation.



My best buddy growing up here is black. He was a social retard. His idea of a good time was sitting inside all day playing Mortal Kombat. (I kid you not, he beat the game without taking a SINGLE hit once. Spent a whole weak trying to achieve that.) Despite his hermit-like life there wasn't a single person in this valley that didn't know who he was; or at least it seemed that way to me. When I could finally convince him to put down the controller and come hang out with us at the mall (it had an arcade) or just to cruise around looking for chicks, this guy got "helloes" shouted at him from every which way, by name, all day, all the time, everywhere.



My roommate just told me about a little trip he took to Denny's with some of BYU's basketball team. But who is the guy everyone at Denny's says hello to? Charles Abouo. Big surprise.



Why is this? I'm not sure, but I think it's just a supply and demand thing. I've met VERY few Mormons who don't like black people, but I've met a TON who can't seem to get enough of them. People in Provo pay SO much attention to black, non-LDS athletes at BYU for so many reasons BESIDES racism that I'm not surprised that people translate all that attention INTO racism, oddly enough. If everywhere you went, people were watching you, you might ask yourself if it was because they didn't trust you. When in actuality, people watch them so closely because they are so friggin RARE around here.



So IF black players get ousted more on HC issues than other groups, I would bet it has something to do with all the extra POSITIVE attention they get for being black, not because anybody here hates black people.

Very interesting take. I remember some of that from my time at BYU where we had an African American kid in class that was very popular (Cameron, I think was his name)--not an athelete. He claimed people asked him what sport he played, but I don't think students were being racist by asking that. I think it was just ignorance. Not every African American student who goes to BYU is a non-member or an athlete. But there are not many African American students and the most famous ones at BYU are athletes. So, another BYU student might logically ask that question. I don't think I would ask that question, but I could understand why another student might given the statistics and make up of the student body.



In fact, I'll take it a step further. It seems that we are so uncomfortable being labeled racists (or perhaps uncomfortable with our church's history on race relations) that we try and go out of our way to prove we are not racist. Hence, the extra adulation for the few African American students on campus. It is not a bad thing, but I can see how it might rub some people the wrong way--sort of like if you miss a few weeks and people start treating you like your less active even though you were just on vacation. Some people just want to be treated like everyone else--not better and not worse.

taekwondave wrote:
In light of the recent controversy surrounding "the article" I wanted to share my view of racism at BYU, being a current student there.



So IF black players get ousted more on HC issues than other groups, I would bet it has something to do with all the extra POSITIVE attention they get for being black, not because anybody here hates black people.

I think you take a nice stab at it - but I disagree with your analysis & conclusion.



#1 the article we are discussing is very biased. I read it. The article definitely had an axe to grind. So be it. To folks that are familiar with BYU, they will recognize it.



#2 Let's agree that the majority of non-member athletes @ BYU that run askew of the HC are black. Why?



Here's my take. BYU is dying for quality athletes. It does not matter whether they are Black, White, Polynesian, Hispanic, or Asian. The Coaching Staff & the Athletic Dept. does not care what ethnicity you are - period. They recruit athletes that can help BYU win and live the BYU HC standards while a student athlete - period. They do not care about your ethnicity - period.



BYU Athletics has been hungry for years to land quality Black athletes & have them come to BYU. Why? #1 they are GREAT athletes. But, the full explanation is more complex. #1 To improve the teams ability & win more games with higher quality athletes (every team in the USA is doing the same). #2 To help change the image of BYU - be more inclusive - and dispel the image of BYU being an exclusive "White Boys Club." #3 Give non-member individuals the opportunity to come to the Y, experience first hand the Cougar experience - so that when the leave - they can spread the word that "the Y is a great place to go to school." Planting seeds as we go.



I know for a fact that BYU Sports teams have recruited non-member black for years with limited success. I ran was on a BYU team (Track) "back in the day." I had a private conversation with the Track Coach about "Why we don't try get more black athletes at BYU?" He turned to me & said matter of fact - "We do try - all the time. It's just difficult to get non-members, let alone non-member Blacks to want to come to BYU. It's the fact that we don't have many Black students, and the Honor Code is a problem for non-member kids; Black or White. It's a recruiting challenge." There it is. That conversation happened and is accurate.



So - I think it's agreed most Black athletes attending BYU are non-members. Hopefully one day in the future that will change as the Church grows it's numbers. But for now, that is true. Since most Black athletes are not LDS - they are not infused in Primary, Sunday School, MIA, Family Home Evening, Seminary & every day of their life with living the standards found in the HC. The LDS athletes are. It's part of the LDS athletes fabric. The non-LDS athlete and non-LDS Black athlete, not as much.



Am I saying the non-LDS athlete is a bad person? Not at all. I'm just pointing out the cultural difference. So - now you bring in a non-member athlete, some of whom are Black. They are 18 years old (kids really), away from home, socializing & doing all the stuff every college kid across the USA is doing - except for the HC violation stuff. Wow!! That's a big deal.



So, some of the athletes violate the HC. Are a higher percentage of the "violators" non-LDS. Probably yes. Are a higher percentage of the non-LDS athlete Black? Probably yes. They just are not as committed to the HC rules as the LDS athlete is - because they were not bombarded with it for the past 18 - 20 years. Bottom line - they are not as committed to the HC rules as LDS athletes are. But they are not horrible people - they are just doing what college athletes do. And, BYU is not racist for enforcing their rules. They are just doing what BYU does. And sometimes the 2 clash - college kids vs. BYU rules. Pretty simple.



Are the non-LDS, including the non-member Black athletes bad people? No. They just aren't committed to our values as fervently as we are. And, even LDS athletes make mistakes & blow it.



Seriously - I have GREAT non-member friends that that drink beer like fish every weekend. These are really great, moral guys. Their integrity is so high it's off the charts, incredible work ethics - but they party hard. I work with them and I hang with them on the weekend. We have discussed the BYU HC situation. They think BYU is really screwed up. They cannot understand where BYU is coming from at all in punishing the HC violator. But, they do not think BYU is racist. Just very harsh & not understanding enough. I tend to agree. I think BYU needs to re-think their handling of theses situations. They are NOT going away. No way. I'm not suggesting lowering their standards - just the way they choose to handle it. I don't think the "off with their heads" approach is in the best interest of the student athlete or BYU.



So, in conclusion - is BYU racist because a higher percentage of non-LDS black athletes violate a HC that #1 they were not raised with, #2 agree with - sort of, #3 punishment of breaking the HC is viewed by the offender & the outside are harsh & over the top? No.



BYU is not racist. Not at all - it's just spun that way. Will that view ever go away? Somewhat - it already has compared to 30 years ago. But, it will never completely go away because - here it is - the explanation that BYU is racist is intellectually & emotionally easy!!! It is the lazy, easy way out.



There will always be people that do not like BYU. They take the easy road - dishonest as it may be - and call BYU racist. I do not think it ever stops. Not completely. The challenge is to live our lives beyond reproach on this issue, to be inclusive, and endure the cheap shots with grace and the truth.



IMHO. 8)

Ddawg wrote:
they are not infused in Primary, Sunday School, MIA, Family Home Evening, Seminary

You're really dating yourself there Ddawg, haha



Love the post btw and I totally agree.



It's not about racism, it's about statistics. The majority of people that get kicked out for HC violations are non-members, the majority of non-members at BYU are minority athletes. Through in the fact that I'm sure HC officiators watch athletes more closely than normal students because the athletes are public figures, and you have a situation that could be interpreted as racist without a closer look.

tmoney35 wrote:

they are not infused in Primary, Sunday School, MIA, Family Home Evening, Seminary

You're really dating yourself there Ddawg, haha



Love the post btw and I totally agree.



It's not about racism, it's about statistics. The majority of people that get kicked out for HC violations are non-members, the majority of non-members at BYU are minority athletes. Through in the fact that I'm sure HC officiators watch athletes more closely than normal students because the athletes are public figures, and you have a situation that could be interpreted as racist without a closer look.

Hey Tmoney35 - if you only knew!!!! Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!! (When I was born they were hoping the steam engine would work - someday. LOL!!)

;)

Go to http://www.1280thezone.com/# and click on Podcasts and you can listen to interviews with Curtis Brown and Bryan Kehl (scroll down a little). Worth listening to. Shows the other side of the article and black athletes at BYU.