Archived Topic

Sports success in Utah

by taekwondave · 4/2/2011

taekwondave

4/2/2011, 7:03:18 PM

I have a theory about why we here in Utah seem to be such overachievers in sports, considering the size of our population and our socioeconomic background. If you don't think we DO overachieve in sports, considering those two factors, you need to look a little harder. BYU alone is enough to turn heads and raise eyebrows. Combine it with the sporadic astronomical success of the U of U in football and basketball and you've really got to wonder what we put in our water out here instead of fluoride.

I think the Mormon thing is a bigger deal than we may commonly think. As a Mormon, and in my experience with other Mormons, we have sort of a "us against the world" mentality. We LOVE attention. We LOVE fame. We transmute in our minds the success of each and every Mormon in the wide world of sports as missionary tools that help the gospel spread and so we are RABID fans; almost as if it were our mission to be so. How many times have you heard people praise Jimmer, saying that what he's doing is the equivalent of an HUNDRED missions for the church? We seem to think that publicity translates directly into growth and so we FEED on it.

Thus, I think we kind of overachieve. We take our mission work VERY seriously.

BYU teams automatically feel like it's them against the world, being the Mormon school. Mormon Utes probably feel like they're the FORGOTTEN Mormons, living in the huge Mormon shadow of BYU and so THEY play like it's them against the world too (especially when they play us). In sports, feeling like people are against you serves as a HUGE motivator, as evidenced by almost EVERY upset in college sports when you hear the words, "Nobody gave us a chance. Nobody believed in us. So we had to believe in ourselves, and we shocked the world!"

I think you could sum up BYU and Utah sports in those three sentences.

YBrit

4/2/2011, 8:07:59 PM

Refs help me feel like it's us against the world. I do see your point.

runbyu1

4/4/2011, 1:40:21 AM

Ditto to both of your comments. Very, very true...

NCPUMA

4/4/2011, 3:25:48 AM

I have wondered about this too. For instance, take Colorado in bball and football.. Nuggets=perennial bottom dwellers (with the exception of only recently). CU Buffs are usually bad, occasionally good in football but not for a long time. CSU is sucky to mediocre at best. And if you took a poll, 99% of the rest of the country would say Colorado is a better place than Utah, solely based on perceptions. Yet Utah, in the major sports at least, has routinely mopped the floor with Colorado, and almost all the neighboring states for that matter. How does lily white Utah with its reputation of being so unhip do this? I think the mormon thing is a major factor. I think your argument could even be expanded to the Jazz, who have never had mormon players.. but the mormon owners (Larry and Gail, and now Larry's son) are hyper competitive and have made the franchise good as a result.. and I think at least some of that hyper competitiveness comes from what you're saying.

Gunk

4/4/2011, 5:23:43 AM

Mormons tend to be very competitive, part of the reason I refuse to live in Utah.

Sports also is probably one of the few "healthy" avenues in Mormonism where the natural man is allowed to coexist, which is why I think I've seen more fights break out in church basketball than I've seen anywhere else. On the court or field Mormons can tap into all that pent up aggression and let it all out. At home, at school, at work we're supposed to keep a lid on it. Problem is, for some once they tap into it, they don't know how to keep it in check; hence, elders quorum presidents can be seen chewing out the bishop that kindly volunteered to ref the ward basketball game.

Schmoe

4/4/2011, 5:29:33 AM

Yeah, Mormons are pretty terrible people for trying to keep themselves in check and then letting it get out of hand sometimes when they are trying to participate in a healthy outlet for their "natural man." They should probably just lie, cheat, steal, adulterize, fornicate, etc. like everyone else. It's so terrible to live in Utah where those damn competitive Mormons help each other out, where the crime rates are low, etc. etc. etc.

mormonrasta

4/4/2011, 6:38:18 AM

I don't think the state of Utah has particularly overachieved. Sure, the state has had it's fair share of very positive sports moments, but I don't think it is terribly disporportionate compared to most other states.

West Virginia has a smaller population than Utah yet that state has seen two BCS bowl wins and a Final Four in the last decade. Utah can't claim that. The state of Kansas has roughly the same population as Utah and their schools have been far superior in the NCAA tournament compared to the Utah schools and Kansas and KSU each have a BCS bowl appearance over the last decade.

Mingjai

4/4/2011, 3:24:37 PM

I don't know if Utah is overachieving in sports either. Mormons do seem to encourage their children to be well-rounded, so the percentage of Mormons who play a sport or have some musical talent is high compared to the general population. But the number of Mormon athletes and musicians who reach the elite level doesn't seem disportionately high.

For example, Utah didn't crack the top 10 in NFL players per capita in 2010:

STATES WITH MOST NFL PLAYERS PER CAPITA

State Population * NFL Players NFL Players Per Capita

Louisiana 4,468,976 68 1 NFL per 65,720 people

Mississippi 2,844,658 37 1 NFL per 76,883 people

Hawaii 1,211,537 15 1 NFL per 80,769 people

District of Columbia 572,059 7 1 NFL per 81,723 people

South Carolina 4,012,012 46 1 NFL per 87,218 people

Alabama 4,447,100 50 1 NFL per 88,942 people

Florida 15,982,378 177 1 NFL per 90,296 people

Georgia 8,186,453 80 1 NFL per 102,331 people

Texas 20,851,820 180 1 NFL per 115,843 people

Montana 902,195 7 1 NFL per 128,885 people

United States 281,421,906 1,696 1 NFL player per 165,933 people

* Based on most recent published U.S. Census Data (2000).

I wonder what the list looks like for the other professional sports.

At any rate, I'm still waiting for Utah to get someone on the USMNT...

Mars

4/4/2011, 3:48:53 PM

Schmoe wrote:
It's so terrible to live in Utah where those damn competitive Mormons help each other out, where the crime rates are low, etc. etc. etc.

You've never been to West Valley, have you?

:whistle:

CougarClaw

4/4/2011, 4:30:35 PM

Mingjai wrote:
I don't know if Utah is overachieving in sports either. Mormons do seem to encourage their children to be well-rounded, so the percentage of Mormons who play a sport or have some musical talent is high compared to the general population. But the number of Mormon athletes and musicians who reach the elite level doesn't seem disportionately high.

For example, Utah didn't crack the top 10 in NFL players per capita in 2010:

STATES WITH MOST NFL PLAYERS PER CAPITA

State Population * NFL Players NFL Players Per Capita

Louisiana 4,468,976 68 1 NFL per 65,720 people

Mississippi 2,844,658 37 1 NFL per 76,883 people

Hawaii 1,211,537 15 1 NFL per 80,769 people

District of Columbia 572,059 7 1 NFL per 81,723 people

South Carolina 4,012,012 46 1 NFL per 87,218 people

Alabama 4,447,100 50 1 NFL per 88,942 people

Florida 15,982,378 177 1 NFL per 90,296 people

Georgia 8,186,453 80 1 NFL per 102,331 people

Texas 20,851,820 180 1 NFL per 115,843 people

Montana 902,195 7 1 NFL per 128,885 people

United States 281,421,906 1,696 1 NFL player per 165,933 people

* Based on most recent published U.S. Census Data (2000).

I wonder what the list looks like for the other professional sports.

At any rate, I'm still waiting for Utah to get someone on the USMNT...

Well, Hawaii is out because there are some significant genetics at play in that state. District of columbia is out because, that's not even a state!

and montana is out because, well. Do i really need a reason? It's montana...

but where is Utah on your list? would it change anything if Austin Collie and Eric Weddle counted for 10 each since they're both amazing players?

CougarClaw

4/4/2011, 4:34:56 PM

So I grew up in NJ and the difference between Utah HS sports and NJ HS sports is night and day different. Why? Because the NY, NJ, CT area has so many pro teams no one cares about HS or college. like. not even a little bit. If you don't like the Yankees OR the Mets, you can root for the Knicks, The Nets, The Rangers, The Islanders, the Devils,the NY Giants, the NY Jets, and I don't even know the MLS teams. I haven't even gotten to college sports yet (pretty much Rutgers is all there is)

In Utah, HS (and college) sports is like a state-wide identity. Oh you went to Skyline? Oh, you went to Bingham? In NJ, you tell me your HS name, I ask you where that is. Cause I honestly don't know, and nor do I care. And that's with our state not even half the size of Utah.

But back to pro teams, What does Utah have? The Jazz? The Blaze? The fact that MLS is finding a huge following here is because we have no Pro Baseball team and no NFL team. Colorado has both. that's why it's seen as bigger and better.

Why do Utahns follow college sports? BECAUSE WE AIN"T GOT NUTHIN ELSE!

Schmoe

4/4/2011, 10:14:01 PM

Mars wrote:
It's so terrible to live in Utah where those damn competitive Mormons help each other out, where the crime rates are low, etc. etc. etc.

You've never been to West Valley, have you?

:whistle:

Utah is anatomically correct in that it has two armpits: Ogden and West Valley.

snoscythe

4/4/2011, 11:42:11 PM

Schmoe wrote:
Schmoe wrote:
It's so terrible to live in Utah where those damn competitive Mormons help each other out, where the crime rates are low, etc. etc. etc.

You've never been to West Valley, have you?

:whistle:

Utah is anatomically correct in that it has two armpits: Ogden and West Valley.

Don't forget Levan ("navel" spelled backwards) right in the middle of the state.

What does that make Beaver ??? :bug:

taekwondave

4/5/2011, 3:49:02 AM

You guys bring up some good points and what appear to be some good comparisons. But I thought I made it pretty clear that Utah's success seems disproportionate in the West, didn't I? Does anybody count Kansas or West Virginia as teams out west? It seems to me that teams out east, regardless of population, have a very long, distinguished sports history to draw from and that gives them a bit of a head start, it would seem. I didn't think we'd stack up well against them, but it seems we stack up AWFULLY well out west, when compared to pretty much any state except California. Can you think of another state out west that stacks up to us so well? I really can't.

Schmoe

4/5/2011, 4:12:14 AM

Well, it is WEST Virginia, right?

mormonrasta

4/5/2011, 4:29:10 AM

taekwondave wrote:
You guys bring up some good points and what appear to be some good comparisons. But I thought I made it pretty clear that Utah's success seems disproportionate in the West, didn't I?.

No.

snoscythe

4/5/2011, 1:16:52 PM

taekwondave wrote:
I have a theory about why we here in Utah seem to be such overachievers in sports, considering the size of our population and our socioeconomic background. If you don't think we DO overachieve in sports, considering those two factors, you need to look a little harder. BYU alone is enough to turn heads and raise eyebrows. Combine it with the sporadic astronomical success of the U of U in football and basketball and you've really got to wonder what we put in our water out here instead of fluoride.

I think the Mormon thing is a bigger deal than we may commonly think. As a Mormon, and in my experience with other Mormons, we have sort of a "us against the world" mentality. We LOVE attention. We LOVE fame. We transmute in our minds the success of each and every Mormon in the wide world of sports as missionary tools that help the gospel spread and so we are RABID fans; almost as if it were our mission to be so. How many times have you heard people praise Jimmer, saying that what he's doing is the equivalent of an HUNDRED missions for the church? We seem to think that publicity translates directly into growth and so we FEED on it.

Thus, I think we kind of overachieve. We take our mission work VERY seriously.

BYU teams automatically feel like it's them against the world, being the Mormon school. Mormon Utes probably feel like they're the FORGOTTEN Mormons, living in the huge Mormon shadow of BYU and so THEY play like it's them against the world too (especially when they play us). In sports, feeling like people are against you serves as a HUGE motivator, as evidenced by almost EVERY upset in college sports when you hear the words, "Nobody gave us a chance. Nobody believed in us. So we had to believe in ourselves, and we shocked the world!"

I think you could sum up BYU and Utah sports in those three sentences.

Nothing in this post gives even the faintest clue that you were trying to limit this to the West. If that was really what you were trying to do, wouldn't you have used the word "west" at least once?

Mars

4/5/2011, 2:43:12 PM

snoscythe wrote:
What does that make Beaver ???

Ah, the Fillmore-Beaver area. Those people seem quite proud of their hometown. Everyone down there has an "I heart Beaver" bumper sticker.

Schmoe

4/5/2011, 5:24:13 PM

Mars wrote:
What does that make Beaver ???

Ah, the Fillmore-Beaver area. Those people seem quite proud of their hometown. Everyone down there has an "I heart Beaver" bumper sticker.

Oh, those old TV shows like "Leave it to Lucy" and "I Love Beaver."

taekwondave

4/5/2011, 8:44:31 PM

snoscythe wrote:
I have a theory about why we here in Utah seem to be such overachievers in sports, considering the size of our population and our socioeconomic background. If you don't think we DO overachieve in sports, considering those two factors, you need to look a little harder. BYU alone is enough to turn heads and raise eyebrows. Combine it with the sporadic astronomical success of the U of U in football and basketball and you've really got to wonder what we put in our water out here instead of fluoride.

I think the Mormon thing is a bigger deal than we may commonly think. As a Mormon, and in my experience with other Mormons, we have sort of a "us against the world" mentality. We LOVE attention. We LOVE fame. We transmute in our minds the success of each and every Mormon in the wide world of sports as missionary tools that help the gospel spread and so we are RABID fans; almost as if it were our mission to be so. How many times have you heard people praise Jimmer, saying that what he's doing is the equivalent of an HUNDRED missions for the church? We seem to think that publicity translates directly into growth and so we FEED on it.

Thus, I think we kind of overachieve. We take our mission work VERY seriously.

BYU teams automatically feel like it's them against the world, being the Mormon school. Mormon Utes probably feel like they're the FORGOTTEN Mormons, living in the huge Mormon shadow of BYU and so THEY play like it's them against the world too (especially when they play us). In sports, feeling like people are against you serves as a HUGE motivator, as evidenced by almost EVERY upset in college sports when you hear the words, "Nobody gave us a chance. Nobody believed in us. So we had to believe in ourselves, and we shocked the world!"

I think you could sum up BYU and Utah sports in those three sentences.

Nothing in this post gives even the faintest clue that you were trying to limit this to the West. If that was really what you were trying to do, wouldn't you have used the word "west" at least once?

How about that? I think what I did was write a REALLY long post and then I edited it for length and I happened to take all the west stuff out of it without realizing it. I originally had specifically mentioned Washington, Oregon, California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Idaho and Montana, but...after reading through it again, low and behold, I deleted all that.

Ahem, I meant out west. Our success is disproportionate out west. (save California only)

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