What the "H" are the Jazz doing?

I know this isn't "BYU" stuff, but I don't know where else to post it (the pro sports hasn't been posted on for a solid month.)



Starting KFez tonight over Derrick Favors? Are you serious? We already booted the season, so quit acting like you are trying to make the playoffs (which is out of reach).



Start Favors and Gordon, just to see what they can do.



On a related, but different topic, I'm thinking that Ty is in over his head... He is pissing off his regular players, (Raja, AL) and not getting his younger guys experience.



His lineup should be:

Watson

Bell

Hayword

Favors

Jefferson



PG, and SG are debatable, but there is NO EXCUSE for not starting Gordon, Favors and Jefferson together.



So let me get this straight, we ship off our best player, and give a 5 year extension to the guy making a decision to start Kfez (a D league player at best) over Favors...



:skeptic: I just don't get the Jazz. Either commit to win, or commit to **actually** rebuild. You can't do both. And the longer you stay in the middle, the longer you fail to do either one.

hey look, now there's been a recent posting in the pro sports forum!



But in all seriousness. I used to be a big Jazz fan, but there is no question the organization has completely fallen apart since Larry died. Losing Sloan. DWill becoming Lebron style crazy and holding us hostage, only to be traded the next week. I haven't watched a game or seen a score (on purpose) since Sloan left. I'd like to be a fan again, but it's hard to care.

Thanks for delegating my post to the Cougar Corner outer darkness... :lol:



Rules are rules. And that's okay ;)



If they blow this next draft (like most the others) I'm not sure what I'll do. Actually, I know what I'll do. Stop caring. Stop going. (It's a good thing I like another NBA team as much as I do the Jazz, or I'd have to give up the NBA altogether... which probably wouldn't be a bad thing. As soon as that team fades away, there will be nothing left of the fundamental basketball of yesteryear. **sigh** )

Its only a matter of time before Greg destroys his father's empire.

If the Jazz organization doesn't pull their head out and start doing things the way Larry did them, I'm thinking I'll change allegiances to some team that is run right (same thing happened to me with the Buccaneers when they fired Tony Dungy).

Corbin can't coach. Tonight could be the biggest loss of the year. If by some miracle they are able to keep it close going into the 4th quarter, look for them to blow it like they did against Dallas, New Orleans, and Washington in the last 2 weeks. I think it was time for Sloan to step away, but I'm not sure they hired the right guy to replace him on a permanent basis.



I hate the whole "protecting against foul trouble" excuse. Play Favors. I'd almost be inclined to start Favors over Al or Millsap right now, but easily over Fes. He's a better rebounder, actually tries to play defense, and is an athletic freak who may be able to actually make a play.



In the lineup that he's going with tonight, I actually like Millsap at the 3 though. I think that the best lineup for the Jazz, when everyone is healthy is:



1-Harris

2-AK

3-Millsap

4-Favors

5-Jefferson



The only players who should play off the bench are Watson (and only just because he's a pg), Heyword (who may actually be a better option at backup PG), CJ because he's our only consistent outside threat (30%, so not even great), and Evans. AK can play 2, 3 or 4. Millsap can go 3 and 4. CJ and Heyword can both go 2 and 3. Jefferson and Favors go between 4 and 5. People may say that this team couldn't guard the better 3's like this. NEWS FLASH they can't guard them now. The Jazz haven't been a great defensive team since Eaton retired, and they haven't even been a good defensive team since Stockton and Malone left. Sloan's teams progressively got worse defensively (and it's one of the reasons I'm not sad he's gone) because he refused to adjust to the 3-point shot actually becoming a weapon.



In the offseason the Jazz need to let Fez go, try and dump Bell and Price, hope Memo gets healthy, re-sign AK at a reasonable salary (5-8 million per season for 3 years), and draft 2 shooters regardless of draft position. If they have the 6th pick and the 12th pick, they don't take the best players on the board, they take the best shooters. They won't, because they're the Jazz, and they don't draft well. Of all the players on the roster right now, I believe 2 of the 13 players are Jazz 1st round draft picks (AK and Heyword). KOC sucks at drafting. He makes decent trades and made some ok free agent signings, but none really since he got Memo and Boozer in the same year (6 or 7 years ago now).

Who would you like to see brought in as a coach? And who in the draft?



I'll be honest, I don't want the Jazz to pick Jimmer. I would hate to see him mismanaged that badly.

Larry didn't manage the Jazz that well either. The Jazz were just extremely fortunate to have drafted Stockton and Malone and had a coach smart enough to run a system to take full advantage of their skill sets that helped them to become some of the greatest of all time.



But Larry also signed many a cash-strapping contracts that limited the Jazz's ability to really succeed. Ostertag's and Kirilenko's have limited their ability to win. They did the same with Milsap.

SpiffCoug wrote:
Larry didn't manage the Jazz that well either. The Jazz were just extremely fortunate to have drafted Stockton and Malone and had a coach smart enough to run a system to take full advantage of their skill sets that helped them to become some of the greatest of all time.



But Larry also signed many a cash-strapping contracts that limited the Jazz's ability to really succeed. Ostertag's and Kirilenko's have limited their ability to win. They did the same with Milsap.

Larry had the common sense to see that he had a great HOF coach and he never let players run the team, even when Malone kept threatening to leave. He understood that the coach needs to have the power and be respected if the players are going to learn anything from him. The Jazz made the playoffs 18 years in a row and picked up a lot of good players over that time period. That doesn't just happen, it's when team management and the great coach they have work together (ie-GOOD MANAGEMENT).

I agree with Spiff. Here is the Jazz first round draft history since 2000 ... (please don't read within a half hour of just eating :sick: )



00 Deshawn Stevenson (pick 23)

Notable picks after 23: Primoz Brezec @ 27, Eddie House @ 37, Eduardo Najera @ 38, Michael Redd @ 43

01 Raul Lopez (pick 24)

Notable Picks after 24: Gerald Wallace @ 25, Samuel Dalembert @ 26, Jamaal Tinsley @ 27, Tony Parker @ 28, Gilbert Arenas @ 30, Mehmet Okur @ 37 (drafted by Pistons. We would come in a few years later to pay him unholy sums of money so he can wear civillian clothes during games.), Earl Watson @ 39 (noticing a trend here? We miss them in the draft, so we pick them up as FA's after their good years are all gone), Jamario Moon (undrafted), Andres Nocioni (undrafted)

02 Ryan Humphey (pick 19) - traded w 2nd round pick for 18th overall Curtis Borchardt (because, apparently we really missed out on him...)

Notable picks after 19: Tayshaun Prince @ 23, Nenad Kristic @ 24, John Salmons @ 26, Roger Mason Jr @ 31, Carlos Boozer @ 35 (pattern, anyone?), Matt Barnes @ 46, Luis Scola @ 56

03 Aleksander "Sasha" Pavlovic (pick 19)

Notables after 19: Boris Diaw @ 21, Travis Outlaw @ 23, Carlos Delfino @ 25, Kendrick Perkins @ 27, Leandro Barbosa @ 28, Josh Howard @ 29, Jason Kapono @ 31, Steve Blake @ 38, (we didn't need a pg, though - we had Raul Lopez starting, and Arroyo backing him up...), Zaza Pachulia @ 42, Matt Bonner @ 45 (poor mans Mehmet Okur, anyone?), WE ACTUALLY DRAFTED Mo Williams @ 47 (but then we released him - good call there...), Kyle Korver @ 51 (We'd bring him in a few years later and pay him a lot of money to look good and "Sam Perkins" it around the 3 line.)

04 Kris Humphries (14th)

Notable Picks after 14: Al Jefferson @ 15 (pattern, anyone? - tell me you see it now...), Josh Smith @ 17, J.R. Smith @ 18, Dorrel Wright @ 19, Jameer Nelson @ 20, Delonte West @ 24, Tony Allen @ 25, Kevin Martin @ 26, Sasha "The Machine" Vujacic @ 27, Beno Udrih @ 28, Anderson Varejao @ 31, Chris Duhon @ 39, Trevor Ariza @ 44.

05 Deron Williams (3rd) - Great Pick!!! (although a no brainer). Let's hope we can surround him with talent!!! Remember, we had the 6th pick and we traded the 6th, 27th, and our 2006 first rounder.

Notables after pick 3: Chris Paul @ 4, Raymond Felton @ 5, Charlie Villanueva @ 7, Channing Frye @ 8, Ike Diogu @ 9, Andrew Bynum @ 10, Danny Granger @ 17, Gerald Green @ 18, Hakeem Warrick @ 19, Nate Robinson @ 21, Jarret Jack @ 22, Fransisco Garcia @ 23, Jason Maxiell @ 26, David Lee @ 30, Brandon Bass @ 33 (we picked CJ Miles @ 34 - now watch who goes after), Ersan Ilyasova @ 36, Ronny Turiaf @ 37, Monta Ellis @ 40, Ryan Gomes @ 50, Marcin Gortat @ 57

06 Ronnie Brewer (14th)

Notables after 14: Rajon Rondo @ 21, Kyle Lowry @ 24, Shannon Brown @ 25, Jordan Farmar @ 26, Daniel Gibson @ 42, Jazz pick Paul Millsap @ 47 (then proceed to pay him WAY too much money as a FA for a 30 point game every 30 games or so.)

07 Morris Almond (25th)

Notables after 25: Aaron Brooks @ 26, Aaron Afflalo @ 27, Tiago Splitter @ 28, Carl Landry @ 31, Glen Davis @ 35, Marc Gasol @ 48 (we traded future draft considerations and our 55 for the rights to fesenko @ 38), Ramon Session @ 56 (one pick after we picked "Herbert Hill" who we then packaged to get Kfez.)

08 Kosta Koufos (23rd)

Notables after 23: Serge Ibaka @ 24, Nicolas Batum @ 25, George Hill @ 26 (man we could have used a shooter like him this year...), Luc Mbah a Moute @ 37, Goran Dragic @ 45

09 Eric Maynor (20th) - why do we let all our "good" picks go...

Notables after 20: Darren Collison @ 21, Rodrigue Beabious @ 25, Taj Gibson @ 26, DeJuan Blair @ 37 (rebounds, anyone?), Chase Budinger @ 44

10 Gordon Hayword (9th) - obviously this chapter isn't over yet,

Notables after 9: Cole Aldrich @ 11, Xavier Henry @ 12, Pattrick Patterson @ 14, Luke Babbitt @ 16, eric Bledsoe @ 18, Damion James @ 24 - possibly others.

Aaah, but what about our other picks? Did any of those turn out to be good second rounders? (This is a rhetorical question, because obviously they did, it seems you left them out so that your argument would look stronger. Also, KOC is more in control of draft picks than Larry H. was).

Yeah, KOC is for sure.



Did you read the picks, schmoe? I focused on just first picks made by the jazz, but I did give them credit for quality second round pickups. Like here:

WE ACTUALLY DRAFTED Mo Williams @ 47 (but then we released him - good call there...)

and here:

we picked CJ Miles @ 34

and here:

Jazz pick Paul Millsap @ 47

Ahhh, but didn't I give them credit for picking up talent in the 2nd round? (This is a rhetorical question, because I obviously did. It seems you left that out so that your argument would look stronger.) ;)

So, you agree with Spiff that Larry was a lousy owner because KOC made bad draft picks?

KOC has been a poor GM, but LHM was giving bad contracts to players who didn't deserve what they paid. Part of that is the problem of doing business in Utah. Your "average" NBA player (single, mid-to-late 20s, African-American, male) is going to fit in better in myriad NBA cities before SLC, so you have to overpay them. And then by overpaying them, you limit your ability to sign other quality players. There's a reason the Jazz seem to have more success hanging on to foreign and white players.



Jazz are in a tough spot and their recent ownership decisions are easy to question whether they want to make money (the business side of the equation) or win championships (the reason the fans follow teams).

Ditto to Spiff. You can't say the Jazz have been great in the "contracts" or "free agent" market in the last 5-10 years.



They are just following the "Dodger" remedy to non-sucess. Pick up older players and pay them way too much. Only they have extended that to guys that don't have a lot of talent or intangibles, but "try real hard." (Harpring, Millsap)

I do hope the Jazz are sending a big thank you to BYU bball and Real Salt Lake. With Jimmermania and RSL playing as well as they are (I know it's soccer, but they're doing the unprecedented and are getting good coverage) they're taking away a lot of attention that could have been focused on the Jazz, their implosion and dysfunction.

More importantly, can we get jazz tweets taken off in the box to the right? Those drive me crazy.

YBrit wrote:
More importantly, can we get jazz tweets taken off in the box to the right? Those drive me crazy.

The problem is that the same reporters who cover the Cougars cover the Jazz too.