Archived Topic

What should be done with these soldiers?

by taekwondave · 3/28/2011

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taekwondave
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1370758/Shocking-video-shows-U-S-troops-cheering-airstrike-blows-Afghan-civilians.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



"The Rolling Stone article describes in lurid detail how American troops allegedly killed an Afghan boy before mutilating his corpse. Soldiers Jeremy Morlock and Andrew Holmes had spotted a young farmer working by himself. Gul Mudin, 15 - only four years younger than Holmes - was the only Afghan in sight, had no weapons on him and had a ‘welcoming’ face. Nobody else was around. Gul walked towards them when called and stopped when asked. Morlock tossed a grenade at him, using the wall as cover, then both soldiers opened fire. Gul fell face down into the ground and there was soon a pool of blood coming out from his head. Morlock screamed over the radio that he had come under attack, but Adam Winfield told his fellow soldier Ashton Moore that it was more likely a staged killing.



Morlock and Holmes told a sergeant that Gul had been about to attack them with a grenade and they therefore had to shoot him, reported the magazine.The story of a lone Taliban fighter, with one grenade attempting to ambush a platoon in broad daylight, seemed unlikely to top officer Captain Patrick Mitchell.But he told Staff Sergeant Kris Sprague to ‘make sure’ Gul was dead. Sprague fired his rifle twice at the boy.



A local elder working nearby in the poppy fields came over and accused Morlock and Holmes of murder, but he was ignored by the soldiers. This elder was asked to identify the boy, but it tragically turned out that he was his dad. ‘The father was very upset,’ an official Army report noted. The soldiers followed Army protocol of cutting off the dead boy’s clothes and stripping him naked to check for tattoos, before scanning his iris and fingerprints. But then they began taking photographs of them celebrating the kill, with Holmes posing for the camera by grabbing Gul’s head by the hair as if he was a deer.

Staff Sergeant Calvin Gibbs then started ‘messing around with the kid’, moving his arms and mouth like a puppet, before slicing off the dead boy's finger and giving it to Holmes.



Holmes took the finger around with him in a zip-lock bag. 'He wanted to keep the finger forever and wanted to dry it out,' one of his friends said. 'He was proud of his finger.'

A few hours after the killing, Holmes and Morlock were playing cards and said they would bet a finger in a game of spades, before tossing Gul’s onto the pile.Medic Alyssa Reilly told investigators: ‘It was gross’.
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CougarClaw
War is not pretty.



While that doesn't give a carte blanche for alleged staged killing of innocents, I'm not the one getting shot at everyday. I'm not the one that is forced to go into an afghan village, be completely surrounded by people who were shooting at me the night before and unable to do a thing because now they're "civilians". I'm not living in that stress level. I haven't been separated from my family for 18 months fighting a war on the opposite side of the world.



Under war conditions, things that once make no sense suddenly start making plenty of sense and yes, start being funny. Maybe once you've seen 3 of your own friends with their guts all over the ground, you're perspective changes. We have no right to pull war scenarios out of context and apply our calm, warm homely light on war actions.



If you don't like what war does to people, why not volunteer to replace those guys going out for their 3rd tour?

If you don't like it why not move to a country that doesn't fight wars?

War is ugly. Very ugly. i'd venture a guess that these soldiers are worn-out, have lost too many of their friends and probably deserve retirement rather than jail-time. I don't know anything more than what you've posted but I have strong feelings for mommy and daddy media trying to interpret war time events. That makes about as much sense as a pool full of kittens and jello.
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Schmoe
They should be forced to read every issue of Rolling Stone that comes out...
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Guest
Schmoe wrote:
They should be forced to read every issue of Rolling Stone that comes out...


There are laws against cruel and unusual punishments.
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jvquarterback
CougarClaw wrote:
War is not pretty.



While that doesn't give a carte blanche for alleged staged killing of innocents, I'm not the one getting shot at everyday. I'm not the one that is forced to go into an afghan village, be completely surrounded by people who were shooting at me the night before and unable to do a thing because now they're "civilians". I'm not living in that stress level. I haven't been separated from my family for 18 months fighting a war on the opposite side of the world.



Under war conditions, things that once make no sense suddenly start making plenty of sense and yes, start being funny. Maybe once you've seen 3 of your own friends with their guts all over the ground, you're perspective changes. We have no right to pull war scenarios out of context and apply our calm, warm homely light on war actions.



If you don't like what war does to people, why not volunteer to replace those guys going out for their 3rd tour?

If you don't like it why not move to a country that doesn't fight wars?

War is ugly. Very ugly. i'd venture a guess that these soldiers are worn-out, have lost too many of their friends and probably deserve retirement rather than jail-time. I don't know anything more than what you've posted but I have strong feelings for mommy and daddy media trying to interpret war time events. That makes about as much sense as a pool full of kittens and jello.


No one is forcing any soldiers to go to war. Even if they did they are still responsible for their actions. They could stop killing people any time they wanted. If they did this they deserve whatever retribution this boys' families wants.
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Guest
jvquarterback wrote:
No one is forcing any soldiers to go to war. Even if they did they are still responsible for their actions. They could stop killing people any time they wanted. If they did this they deserve whatever retribution this boys' families wants.


You don't know the full situation, do you? So making premature judgments is a mistake.



For all we know, this kid may have stolen something from the soldier in question. In which case your own arguments argue that the use of force against him was fully justified. He may have killed one of their comrades, in which case they or his family would have the right to decide his fate. Seems like justice would demand it.
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imuakahuku
Military tribuneral. Find the truth and act on it. They are US soldiers and are subject to US military laws (CoC).
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CougarClaw
imuakahuku wrote:
Military tribuneral. Find the truth and act on it. They are US soldiers and are subject to US military laws (CoC).


this.



subject to military laws. Not media perception.
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taekwondave
CougarClaw wrote:
War is not pretty.



While that doesn't give a carte blanche for alleged staged killing of innocents, I'm not the one getting shot at everyday. I'm not the one that is forced to go into an afghan village, be completely surrounded by people who were shooting at me the night before and unable to do a thing because now they're "civilians". I'm not living in that stress level. I haven't been separated from my family for 18 months fighting a war on the opposite side of the world.



Under war conditions, things that once make no sense suddenly start making plenty of sense and yes, start being funny. Maybe once you've seen 3 of your own friends with their guts all over the ground, you're perspective changes. We have no right to pull war scenarios out of context and apply our calm, warm homely light on war actions.



If you don't like what war does to people, why not volunteer to replace those guys going out for their 3rd tour?

If you don't like it why not move to a country that doesn't fight wars?

War is ugly. Very ugly. i'd venture a guess that these soldiers are worn-out, have lost too many of their friends and probably deserve retirement rather than jail-time. I don't know anything more than what you've posted but I have strong feelings for mommy and daddy media trying to interpret war time events. That makes about as much sense as a pool full of kittens and jello.


I admit I would love to see a pool full of kittens in jello, but I am absolutely amazed at your apathy towards murder. From your perspective, as long as a person has had a hard life and seen lots of killing, they shouldn't be thrown in prison for murder, just given early retirement. Would that go for all the black kids in the ghetto who grew up in a gang? They've seen their share of "war" have they not? Their share of killing. What if some kid from the ghetto that grew up with the crypts did this to your son? Would you pay for his early retirement? Amazing.
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SpiffCoug
What should happen is what will happen. They will be tried in a military court. If there were extenuating circumstances of which the press does not know, they will come out in the trial. If it turns out these guys did what they are purported to have done, they will spend a long time in prison - like the rest of their lives.



We don't know all the facts and shouldn't rush to judgement. On the surface what they did appears deplorable and simply unacceptable for US military members.



Murder is murder and is rarely justified. War is not murder. That's what the trial will determine.
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