Spring Ball Nelson

Saw this tidbit from Gman (Brandon Gurner of TBS and DesNews):

He's [Riley Nelson] been the second-best performing QB in spring practices and it hasn't even been close. Coaches aren't sabotaging the offense to fit around his strengths either...he's running the same offense and is clearly the second-best performing QB on the team.

Carry on.

Everything I've been reading and hearing from guys who have been there watching confirm this. Nelson is a fantastic QB and athlete and if we didn't have one who was even that much more amazing he'd clearly be our starter.

SpiffCoug wrote:
Saw this tidbit from Gman (Brandon Gurner of TBS and DesNews):

He's [Riley Nelson] been the second-best performing QB in spring practices and it hasn't even been close. Coaches aren't sabotaging the offense to fit around his strengths either...he's running the same offense and is clearly the second-best performing QB on the team.

Carry on.

How is this possible? I thought he couldn't throw a pass longer then 10 yards?

If this is true, is another indictment on Anae and how he used Riley last year, because as the AFA game showed, it could be pretty bad.

The bottom line is, I will always come to the defense of our players when posters on this or any board live in unsubstantiated generalities about their ability. Riley Nelson is a capable QB. Brandon Doman said so himself when asked the question last year after the air force game.



The main problem last year was on the defense. If Bronco is running the D from day 1, last year is a 9 win team no matter who the QB is.



I do think that Brandon Doman is going to run a better offense then Anae though.

frdbtr, sorry, but I watched the 2nd half of the AFA game. BYU had problems on both sides of the ball last year, not just defense. Our offense looked worse than the defense at times, as bad as they were vs the run. Hence, the changes.

Lawboy wrote:
frdbtr, sorry, but I watched the 2nd half of the AFA game. BYU had problems on both sides of the ball last year, not just defense. Our offense looked worse than the defense at times, as bad as they were vs the run. Hence, the changes.

How many games did we win before bronco took the defense? How many after? TCU was the only team that BYU was out of the game late after bronco took the defense, but that was to be expected since TCU was really good. IMO, BYU wins the Air force game if Bronco is running the defense at that time. Our defense in that game was not stopping the full back dive AT ALL. That is the primary focus to stopping Air force football is to stop the full back dive. I can Promise you that Bronco's defense would have stopped the full back dive. Yes, the offense was terrible in that game and our passing game was attrocious and unfortunately for everyone that wanted Heaps handed the starting job on a silver platter as soon as he walked on campus, it was "proof" that Nelson wasn't "capable" of running a BYU offense. Brandon Doman, after the game in an interview basicly said that was not a correct opinion.

frdbtr wrote:

How many games did we win before bronco took the defense? How many after?

We've talked about this topic ad nauseum, but playing Florida St and Nevada last year was not the same as playing UNM and Wyoming. Strength of schedule also played a significant role.

CougarClaw wrote:

How many games did we win before bronco took the defense? How many after?

We've talked about this topic ad nauseum, but playing Florida St and Nevada last year was not the same as playing UNM and Wyoming. Strength of schedule also played a significant role.

Oh, I know the stats, in fact I posted a bunch of them. I'll just remind you of 2 of them. 24-3 against utah state at half time, Bronco takes the defense and the very next week we shut a good SDSU team completely off in the first half and end up winning the game. BYU wins the AF and the Utah state game last year if Bronco is the D coordinator and it wouldn't have mattered who the QB was. I would put money on the idea that FSU and Nevada would have been games within our grasp as well. It would have taken help from the offense in those games though.

bronco running the defense would have won us the air force game. but so would have a half competent offense.

frdbtr wrote:
The bottom line is, I will always come to the defense of our players when posters on this or any board live in unsubstantiated generalities about their ability. Riley Nelson is a capable QB. Brandon Doman said so himself when asked the question last year after the air force game. .

I "live in unsubstantiated generalities about [my] ability" all the time. Whats the big deal?





You mean U.G.A.T.A. like this? "BYU wins the AF and the Utah state game last year if Bronco is the D coordinator and it wouldn't have mattered who the QB was"??

dmcougar wrote:

The bottom line is, I will always come to the defense of our players when posters on this or any board live in unsubstantiated generalities about their ability. Riley Nelson is a capable QB. Brandon Doman said so himself when asked the question last year after the air force game. .

I "live in unsubstantiated generalities about [my] ability" all the time. Whats the big deal?





You mean U.G.A.T.A. like this? "BYU wins the AF and the Utah state game last year if Bronco is the D coordinator and it wouldn't have mattered who the QB was"??

An unsubstantiated generality is when you say "riley Nelson can't throw the ball more then 10 yards" when evidence supports that he can. An unsubstantiated generality is when you say "Riley Nelson can't run BYU's offense", when evidence supports that he can.



My opinion that Bronco's defense would have beat AF and USU is not an unsubstantiated generality because I am have evidence to support that it shut down better offenses then AF and USU. Last year, the company line on this and other websites was that Riley Nelson had no business having a scholorship at BYU let alone being in charge of the offense. Why did most have this opinion? Was it because he had no ability? Absolutely not, it was simply because everyone wanted the golden boy handed the starting position at BYU without ever having earned the job due to performance in practice or on the field. We saw very clearly what it took to get the golden boy performing the way he needed to after Riley went down with injury and if it wasn't for Bronco's defense, BYU would have been 1-8 by the time he started throwing TD's again.

Lawboy wrote:
If this is true, is another indictment on Anae and how he used Riley last year, because as the AFA game showed, it could be pretty bad.

Would that be the AFA game where Matt Reynolds was doubled over with the flu and iirc had some other injury and the blocking sucked and Heaps looked even worse than Nelson? And it is not clear how significant Nelson's injury was at that point.



Since we are looking back for the moment. Here is a pattern of behaivor I would like to see change. Nelson should have gotten more meaningful reps in 2009. Yes I said 2009. Way back in 2009. That is when coaches should have measured whether he could make the throws and know where to throw in game situations. Instead, in his precious little 2009 playing time, he spent most of it handing off to avoid running up a score. Unfortunatley, we couldn't even blow out New Mexico that year to give Nelson some PT. They should have let Nelson run the full offense every down he was in - regardless of the score - running the standard BYU 2009 offense.



Had they done this, they would have entered Spring 2010 knowing that Nelson either was or was not made of the right stuff and if he proved he was - focused on getting him ready for Fall 2010 and Heaps ready to be back-up or redshirt and prep Lark as back-up. If Nelson did not prove himself capable in 2009 - they could have focused on getting Heaps ready for Fall 2010 and Lark ready to be back-up and transferred Nelson to defense or RB in 2010.



But that did not happen, so they entered Spring not knowing what Nelson would do in game situations. They obviously thought he had something to offer - but he was not battle tested and proven. So we got two starting QBs with relatively little meaningful experience - and two offensive schemes. We did not get 2QB because coaches thought it was a great idea or that both QBs were just too good to keep off the field. We got it because coaches were not confident enough to hand the reins to either of them. But we did not learn fully from all of that.



Yes - by having two starters, Heaps certainly got real reps and minutes from game 1 when he was in. That was the good that came from 2QB - and 2QB did cause confusion for the UW defense. I heard that right from one of the defensive stars for UW. But I digress. When Nelson went down a few minutes into week 3 - not only was Heaps not ready yet - perhaps unavoidable - but Lark was not ready to be back-up to Heaps. So Lark got a few precious minutes after Heaps got things together enough to provide a lead that would allow a back-up to play. But unfortunately - that meant a blowout lead and Lark was not allowed to run the offense.



So we come into Spring 2011 still not knowing quite what we will have from Nelson in a real game situation and having no idea what to expect from Lark in one. in fact, we barely know what to expect from Heaps in a tough game on the road situation.



So - what I am saying is let's hope we get a big lead somehow in some of those early games so Nelson or Lark can go out and RUN THE OFFENSE the way it is supposed to be run so we can see what we have and so they will be ready if called upon. Even Jimmer gets a cramped calf once in a while or mono. And we didn't have a backup for him either. I digress again.



BTW - it is nice to see Nelson accorded some long overdue respect. I realize not everyone will agree that he deserves any. My son, who for some reason does not like CC and does not come on here, told me flat out yesterday that Nelson does not deserve a D1 scholarship and should have quit the team or been switched to safety and that even though my son uses Doman's name in his Moniker, he will lose respect for Doman if he chooses Nelson as a back-up. So I don't think everyone is ready to say that Nelson deserves any kudos. But I have always been a supporter because he is a BYU player and although Blue is Better may not think I behave like his definition of a fan - my definition of a fan is one that supports the players and coaches who have sacrificed to be part of this team. I think all of our quarterbacks deserve their scholarships and that Doman and Bronco have the right to choose how to use them. Now - if we go 6-6 again - I might start questioning the Head Guy. But based on the body of work (catchy pharase this time of year) - Mendenhall still looks pretty good and last year looks like an abberation.



Go Cougs

Go Heaps

Go Nelson

Go Lark

Go Munns



In whatever order and role Doman chooses to use them.

I don't think there is any doubt that the majority of CC posters had stars (5 of them) in their eyes last year and couldn't see very clearly because of them. It boggles the mind that the A.F. game is used so often by them as an indictment against Nelson, when he started the whole second half because he was outperforming Heaps in the first half. Am I happy with the way Heaps started to play about five games later? Yeah. Do I think he's the best man for the job NOW? Yeah. But what Anae put those guys through last year merited his firing and I think we'll be killer this year, even if "the golden boy" (who really IS golden, by the way. Heaps is fantastic) goes down due to sickness or injury.



I think Nelson is MORE than capable to run this offense and so do the coaches. I always heard from Heaps campers last year that he wasn't a "BYU style" QB. Sorry, who can blame him? He was placed in a box as a runner/option QB because of his speed from day one and all the offensive plays he ran gave him that as one of his first options. The coaches EXPECTED him to run. You could tell. That's why they had him in there. They thought they could get the best of two worlds with Heaps' arm and Nelson's feet. They didn't really give him the chance to make any mistakes and work into a throwing rhythm(same with Heaps, hence he sucked against A.F. too).



This is not any kind of an argument to start Nelson over Heaps this year, no sir. I'm just saying that, if the unthinkable happens, we'll be fine.

taekwondave wrote:
I don't think there is any doubt that the majority of CC posters had stars (5 of them) in their eyes last year and couldn't see very clearly because of them. It boggles the mind that the A.F. game is used so often by them as an indictment against Nelson, when he started the whole second half because he was outperforming Heaps in the first half. Am I happy with the way Heaps started to play about five games later? Yeah. Do I think he's the best man for the job NOW? Yeah. But what Anae put those guys through last year merited his firing and I think we'll be killer this year, even if "the golden boy" (who really IS golden, by the way. Heaps is fantastic) goes down due to sickness or injury.



I think Nelson is MORE than capable to run this offense and so do the coaches. I always heard from Heaps campers last year that he wasn't a "BYU style" QB. Sorry, who can blame him? He was placed in a box as a runner/option QB because of his speed from day one and all the offensive plays he ran gave him that as one of his first options. The coaches EXPECTED him to run. You could tell. That's why they had him in there. They thought they could get the best of two worlds with Heaps' arm and Nelson's feet. They didn't really give him the chance to make any mistakes and work into a throwing rhythm(same with Heaps, hence he sucked against A.F. too).



This is not any kind of an argument to start Nelson over Heaps this year, no sir. I'm just saying that, if the unthinkable happens, we'll be fine.

Amen, exactly my thoughts.

you guys didn't get enough Nelson v Heaps during last year's offseason?

Mars wrote:


Riley Nelson didn't win a SINGLE GAME after Bronco took over the defense last year.



;)

Nor did he lose one. :)

Cougarbib2 wrote:

If this is true, is another indictment on Anae and how he used Riley last year, because as the AFA game showed, it could be pretty bad.

Since we are looking back for the moment. Here is a pattern of behaivor I would like to see change. Nelson should have gotten more meaningful reps in 2009. Yes I said 2009. Way back in 2009. That is when coaches should have measured whether he could make the throws and know where to throw in game situations.

I thought it was accepted as fact that Nelson did get meaningful reps, but he bailed on most pass plays and scrambled?

taekwondave wrote:
I don't think there is any doubt that the majority of CC posters had stars (5 of them) in their eyes last year and couldn't see very clearly because of them. .

I would disagree. CC was more pro Nelson than any other cougar message board. Heaps' mom even mentioned that we were pretty "negative" over here.



I think Nelson is easier to game plan for and that after a few games his production always seems to go down. He is different and surprises you, but once you get him he is not difficult to deal with. Just my opinion though. He is obviously not a bad quarterback. I just don't think he fits the byu system, yes, i said it again. I still would like more reps going to lark or munns. they have not had a real shot at developing into better players. I think they have more upside than nelson. i know many would disagree with that, but it is just my opinion. pick the second guy with the most upside and get him more reps, the same philosophy i had last year at qb. Neither seperated themselves, so go with the guy with the most upside (Heaps).



I am just not a Nelson fan. I don't like that he lied to the coaches. I also think he is a good passer but limited which is where the real problem with him lies. And Most importantly I don't like his sunglasses :)