Looks like we owe the HC Office and it's people an apology

There has been a lot of anger and hostility shown to the Honor Code Office and the people who work there, going so far as to call them evil, nazis, and worse.



Now it looks like the HC Office had nothing to do with Brandon Davies dismissal from the team, nor with the announcement to the press.



Looks like the true nazis are Coach Rose and Holmoe, or do we not consider them uninspired, worthless people, who are only searching to hurt the AD because they are people we admire?

The decision to remove Davies was made by the university athletics department, pending the results of the full honor code investigation.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/03/04/utah.player.suspended/index.html?hpt=T2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hawk. Are you emplyed by the HC office? jk

Are you now trolling, without references? ;-) jk again (sort of), I know the quotes are everywhere.

And while I have not called them names, i have been critical of the policies and how this was handled. I am still critical of how this was handled and I am quite confident that there will be some changes as a result--for the guilty's sake. we need more than "science" to make critical decisions. Otherwise we could just use allgarythms (sp) and robots. Science has brought many advances but it has also created alot of problems without considering ALL of the moral ramifications.

Besides with the HC office its manage or be managed, kill or be killed. So I am not so quick to exhonerate that office or its policies.

dmcougar, you have been the most outspoken critic of the HC office. So it is no surprise that you don't find that this exonerates them.



But what we know now: The HC office is investigating Davies but hasn't handed down any punishment. The Athletic Dept. removed Davies from the team after discussing it between Davies, Rose and Holmoe, and the PR Dept. used unfortunate choice of words, where they should have said Davies was removed from the team for violation of team rules, they said HC violation.



As for me, I have never worked for, or known anyone who has worked for the HC Office. That being said, I work for a company that works with Universities all across the world, and one of our clients is BYU. I have been in meetings involving lowly staff all the way up to directors (all of which start with a prayer when held at BYU). They drive me crazy quite often, but I have always seen how intent they are to do their business in a way that is in line with gospel principles.

hawkwing wrote:
There has been a lot of anger and hostility shown to the Honor Code Office and the people who work there, going so far as to call them evil, nazis, and worse.



Now it looks like the HC Office had nothing to do with Brandon Davies dismissal from the team, nor with the announcement to the press.



Looks like the true nazis are Coach Rose and Holmoe, or do we not consider them uninspired, worthless people, who are only searching to hurt the AD because they are people we admire?

The decision to remove Davies was made by the university athletics department, pending the results of the full honor code investigation.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/03/04/utah.player.suspended/index.html?hpt=T2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Most of the people in germany who did horrible things to the jews were not necessarily racist, murderous, or as I would guess, even amoral people. When the people in charge create a culture of persecution,it becomes easy for normal people to excuse nazi-like behavior (See the Milgram experiment). I don't think that's what happened in this case of course, I'm just saying your argument isn't iron clad.

Ah..........the PR department. My criticism has been misplaced all this time. Those PR guys. They are the ones that normally can find some way to spin this out of the national fiasco it has become. Did they salso uggest to TH that he use the word "science"? ;-)

Actually it looks like good old franchuck may have had something to do with it as well. TBS has an interesting conversation going on right now in that regards.



Is it true that cougarblue twitter was the first to break the story? the accusations are that davies and his bishop were working through it, then somehow franchuck found out and went to byu and said i am running the story. At that point byu probably felt to protect themselves they had to take those actions, or they may have just taken those actions anyway once they confirmed that the information was true.



Not totally sure if I believe this given there are other reports that davies went and told them on his own.



hard to know.

hawkwing wrote:
used unfortunate choice of words, where they should have said Davies was removed from the team for violation of team rules, they said HC violation.

And i my opinion that was a HUGE "unfortunate" mistake.

jonnylingo wrote:
Actually it looks like good old franchuck may have had something to do with it as well. TBS has an interesting conversation going on right now in that regards.



Is it true that cougarblue twitter was the first to break the story? the accusations are that davies and his bishop were working through it, then somehow franchuck found out and went to byu and said i am running the story. At that point byu probably felt to protect themselves they had to take those actions, or they may have just taken those actions anyway once they confirmed that the information was true.



Not totally sure if I believe this given there are other reports that davies went and told them on his own.



hard to know.

If this is true, I'm going to start feeling murderous myself. I already put Franchuk second in line behind G. Monson in my despised journalists list.

Sammich wrote:

Actually it looks like good old franchuck may have had something to do with it as well. TBS has an interesting conversation going on right now in that regards.



Is it true that cougarblue twitter was the first to break the story? the accusations are that davies and his bishop were working through it, then somehow franchuck found out and went to byu and said i am running the story. At that point byu probably felt to protect themselves they had to take those actions, or they may have just taken those actions anyway once they confirmed that the information was true.



Not totally sure if I believe this given there are other reports that davies went and told them on his own.



hard to know.

If this is true, I'm going to start feeling murderous myself. I already put Franchuk second in line behind G. Monson in my despised journalists list.

I think I should refrain from making any comments about what I will do to Fanchuck (spelling intended) if this is verified AND if I ever "run" across him.

jonnylingo wrote:

used unfortunate choice of words, where they should have said Davies was removed from the team for violation of team rules, they said HC violation.

And i my opinion that was a HUGE "unfortunate" mistake.

I agree.

I think I should refrain from making any comments about what I will do to Fanchuck (spelling intended) if this is verified AND if I ever "run" across him.

For some reason I get the feeling you might be talking literally here. If Franchuk ends up with tire marks across his body...

No, just if I happen to walk by him. He will need my help to get off the road from someone else who will have run roughshod over him in some way or another.

I think it is safe to say that people at BYU who are responsible for releasing information to the public have learned that there are probably better ways to do it, and that they need to be careful with how they deliver messages to the public. Bland wording, simple descriptions and little info are crucial. It is gets out from there, so be it. But I think it would be wise from now on to simply say "violation of team rules" for any athlete that is suspended or booted from school. The HC is a huge part of every teams rules, so it works.

Lawboy wrote:
I think it is safe to say that people at BYU who are responsible for releasing information to the public have learned that there are probably better ways to do it, and that they need to be careful with how they deliver messages to the public. Bland wording, simple descriptions and little info are crucial. It is gets out from there, so be it. But I think it would be wise from now on to simply say "violation of team rules" for any athlete that is suspended or booted from school. The HC is a huge part of every teams rules, so it works.

I like the teams rules statement.

Lawboy wrote:
I think it is safe to say that people at BYU who are responsible for releasing information to the public have learned that there are probably better ways to do it, and that they need to be careful with how they deliver messages to the public. Bland wording, simple descriptions and little info are crucial. It is gets out from there, so be it. But I think it would be wise from now on to simply say "violation of team rules" for any athlete that is suspended or booted from school. The HC is a huge part of every teams rules, so it works.

I truly hope they have learned this lesson for their own sakes and for the sakes of all of the students, be they athletes or not.

Lawboy wrote:
I think it is safe to say that people at BYU who are responsible for releasing information to the public have learned that there are probably better ways to do it, and that they need to be careful with how they deliver messages to the public. Bland wording, simple descriptions and little info are crucial. It is gets out from there, so be it. But I think it would be wise from now on to simply say "violation of team rules" for any athlete that is suspended or booted from school. The HC is a huge part of every teams rules, so it works.

If that would have happened we would not likely have seen this blow up as big as it did. it would have been limited to sports publications, not good freakin morning america.

Lawboy wrote:
I think it is safe to say that people at BYU who are responsible for releasing information to the public have learned that there are probably better ways to do it, and that they need to be careful with how they deliver messages to the public. Bland wording, simple descriptions and little info are crucial. It is gets out from there, so be it. But I think it would be wise from now on to simply say "violation of team rules" for any athlete that is suspended or booted from school. The HC is a huge part of every teams rules, so it works.

Wouldn't count on it. From the press conference yesterday they seemed rather pleased with how they handled it.

I suspected it was a joint decision between Davies, Rose, and Holmoe. The HC was not responsible for the fallout.



Yet, if it's just explained as violating team rules and then learned later it was, in fact, a serious honor code violation, isn't it better to just deal with it now than later? It was clear what the transgression was and what the likely punishment will be. Why wait another 4 weeks? This would only open up BYU to charges that it sat on the news so it could have Davies for the rest of basketball season. (Desirable as that is for all concerned, it's not how the Church and by extension, BYU, operates.)



I view it as pulling the bandage off. You can do it now and cause some pain, or delay it and cause pain then, but with possible more serious repercussions.



Lastly, most of the news reports and commentaries I am reading are viewing this as a POSITIVE thing for both BYU and Davies. They don't view the pre-marital sex part as any big deal, but that BYU and Davies are living by their commitments to be a big deal. Although BYU loses an important player to this year's team, they have gained immensely as being that university that has standards and sticks by them.

Lawboy wrote:
I think it is safe to say that people at BYU who are responsible for releasing information to the public have learned that there are probably better ways to do it, and that they need to be careful with how they deliver messages to the public.

Good grief!!! By the year 2011, a bona-fide PR dept. should have their crappola packed tight enough to not make such a Freshamn mistake! The whole way this was handled has really smoked me ..... it stinks!!!

Lawboy wrote:

Bland wording, simple descriptions and little info are crucial. It is gets out from there, so be it. But I think it would be wise from now on to simply say "violation of team rules" for any athlete that is suspended or booted from school. The HC is a huge part of every teams rules, so it works.

I work with the Public Relations Dept. @ my work all the time. There are times we are going 10,000 MPH & things are happening very fast. Information is getting cranked out & press conferences are being held every 3-4 hrs. or so.



Even during those times - we double & triple check out our press releases!!! We are careful & measured in our approach. Obviously, the BYU machine really gorked this one badly.

Ddawg wrote:

I think it is safe to say that people at BYU who are responsible for releasing information to the public have learned that there are probably better ways to do it, and that they need to be careful with how they deliver messages to the public.

Good grief!!! By the year 2011, a bona-fide PR dept. should have their crappola packed tight enough to not make such a Freshamn mistake! The whole way this was handled has really smoked me ..... it stinks!!!



Bland wording, simple descriptions and little info are crucial. It is gets out from there, so be it. But I think it would be wise from now on to simply say "violation of team rules" for any athlete that is suspended or booted from school. The HC is a huge part of every teams rules, so it works.

As important as that is, another thing I have learned is NEVER feel that you have to react on their time schedule. You set the time. If you need more time to frame the message, then take it. I have found that people who act in haste caving into the belief that if they do not response immediately soon regret acting so quickly "We have no comment at this time" IS a valid response