Loneliness

Quote from Gordon B. Hinckley in a devotional address @ BYU in 1969.



"The price of leadership is loneliness. The price of adherence to conscience is loneliness. The price of adherence to principle is loneliness. And I think it's inescapable."



I think that covers both Davies's and BYU's position in all this.

As Shakespeare wrote, "Devils can quote scriptures too".

I'm not saying you're a devil, just saying we can dredge up all sorts of "principle-based" quotes to make us feel better and create some self-justifying image about what HC leadership feels. But sometimes its simply a mask for poorly executed decisions. The HC office acted hastily and I expect time will indict this process not support it.



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dmcougar wrote:
As Shakespeare wrote, "Devils can quote scriptures too".

I'm not saying you're a devil, just saying we can dredge up all sorts of "principle-based" quotes to make us feel better and create some self-justifying image about what HC leadership feels. But sometimes its simply a mask for poorly executed decisions. The HC office acted hastily and I expect time will indict this process not support it.



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I read that the HC Office is still evaluating Davies' future with the University and the team. I have not read anywhere tha the HC Office made the decisoin to suspend davies from the team. Are you certain that Dave rose did not make that decision?



Dave Rose has said that Davie's did th eright thing and is very supportive of Davies eventually playing again, but it does not seem clear to me who actually decided to suspend Davies - let alone based on what information.



It does seem clear that whatever information Rose has is not in dispute with Davies' communication with Rose.



Fortunatley or unfortunatley depending on your view - it wil never be formally announced re everything that happened, how many times, previous warnings about HC, if any, remorse, etc., etc., etc.,



It will remain a mystery and be left to rumor and time. Luckily time will put the memory of this on the back burner most of the time - but it will long remain as a footnote to the greatest team BYU has ever had and what could have been.



Handling and balancing all of the issues involved is certainly complicated and the HC Office will always be an easy target to cast your frustrations upon.



A young player made a mistake as did his girlfriend. Many people make that same mistake, including Church members, and in some cases very good people, who just made a bad choice in the heat of the moment. I am not judging that. And there is a path back from that.



But as a result of that, I have seen an un-named roomate thrown under the bus who may or may not have even said anything to the HC office, the HC Office has been criticized fo rtheir handling of it, the Church has been caled under scrutiny for its policies, Dave Rose has been called out for not getting the team prepared to move on quickly enough, even Michelle Peralta has been called out who had absolutely nothing to do with this other than possibly being an inspiration to a tattle tale if there was one, fans will get called out for how they handle this, it will go onand on.



It is too bad we can't just move forward, trust the Church and it's University to handle things, and accept that basketball championships are way down the list of Church priorities. A bitter pill to swallow, but I am going to swallow it right now.



Go Cougs

I haven't seen criticism of the church, nor the Brethren. And I am certainly not. But I am critical of the HC office and their handling of this. And I believe BYU can remain true to the standards of the church while improve the administration And policies And procedures of the HC office.



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dmcougar wrote:
I haven't seen criticism of the church, nor the Brethren. And I am certainly not. But I am critical of the HC office and their handling of this. And I believe BYU can remain true to the standards of the church while improve the administration And policies And procedures of the HC office.



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I think they were left with little choice on this one. Unfortunately.

dmcougar wrote:
I haven't seen criticism of the church, nor the Brethren. And I am certainly not. But I am critical of the HC office and their handling of this. And I believe BYU can remain true to the standards of the church while improve the administration And policies And procedures of the HC office.



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What I find "hilarious" is BYU thinks they handled the situation "perfectly."



In today's press conference they talked about having the process down to a science at this point and how they handled it like any other time.



Ummm....no you didn't. And just because something may have been handled the same way it's been done before doesn't mean there isn't a better way to handle something. Try asking the poor student athletes that have been "handled" by the HC Office and ask them if they think it could have been handled better.

Joseph Smith said (paraphrasing) A religeon that does'nt demand a great deal of it's members will never have the power to lead them to exaltation. I recently saw a program on BYU TV, in which an ancient prophet, who has been dead for a long time, named Gordon B Hinckley, talked about the HC being inspired, and coming from the first presidency. Now, I know that the administraters thereof don't always handle things right, but who actually knows how they have handled this situation? All we know is what we know. The rest of this is all just speculation. Criticism of the HC, by inescapable extension, is criticism of the church leadership who, under the direction of the Savior, created it.



P.S. I can already see all the hate posts this will generate for me, but as Joseph Smith said "hit pigeons flutter."

(I really am not trying to cause argument, but to point out the silliness of a lot of the things that are being said by people who claim to believe that the LDS church is The Savoir's Church)

bigbluepuma wrote:
Joseph Smith said (paraphrasing) A religeon that does'nt demand a great deal of it's members will never have the power to lead them to exaltation. I recently saw a program on BYU TV, in which an ancient prophet, who has been dead for a long time, named Gordon B Hinckley, talked about the HC being inspired, and coming from the first presidency. Now, I know that the administraters thereof don't always handle things right, but who actually knows how they have handled this situation? All we know is what we know. The rest of this is all just speculation. Criticism of the HC, by inescapable extension, is criticism of the church leadership who, under the direction of the Savior, created it.



P.S. I can already see all the hate posts this will generate for me, but as Joseph Smith said "hit pigeons flutter."

(I really am not trying to cause argument, but to point out the silliness of a lot of the things that are being said by people who claim to believe that the LDS church is The Savoir's Church)

Really BBP? Did you just say that? So I guess you dont believe in continuing revelation? I guess you believe that dead prophets are more important than live prophets? I'm not saying that to disrespect President HInckley or any past prophet at all, but rather to point out that if you want to bare your testimony of the HC office, you might want to know a little about their history before you claim its true (as far it is translated [administered] correctly).



And please, if you are going to be so strictured in your adherence to church principles, please provide a reference for your quote and verify that it is accurate. Because if the quote is accurate as you present, that "the HC is inspired" then BY your "inescapable extension" logic does that mean that it is administrated perfectly by imperfect people.

The honor code is inspired, and therefore The honor code office is inspired. Good one. Thats a part of the whole problem. Then why have they changed their policies over and over again? Shall we go banning shorts of any kind? Yep, pure inspiration that ended that policy.

Well, they're already fluttering. I don't have a clue how to find what I SAW Pres. Hinckley say, but I saw it (my reference to him being an ancient prophet was TIC). I also didn't claim that the HC administrators do it right, or are even fair, but a lot of what I have been seeing in many of these threads is directed directly at the HC. What I did say about how they have handled this situation, is that we don't know. All we can do is speculate, and most of the speculation is simply inflamatory. I would simply like to see us judge less on what we know nothing about.

dmcougar wrote:

Joseph Smith said (paraphrasing) A religeon that does'nt demand a great deal of it's members will never have the power to lead them to exaltation. I recently saw a program on BYU TV, in which an ancient prophet, who has been dead for a long time, named Gordon B Hinckley, talked about the HC being inspired, and coming from the first presidency. Now, I know that the administraters thereof don't always handle things right, but who actually knows how they have handled this situation? All we know is what we know. The rest of this is all just speculation. Criticism of the HC, by inescapable extension, is criticism of the church leadership who, under the direction of the Savior, created it.



P.S. I can already see all the hate posts this will generate for me, but as Joseph Smith said "hit pigeons flutter."

(I really am not trying to cause argument, but to point out the silliness of a lot of the things that are being said by people who claim to believe that the LDS church is The Savoir's Church)

Really BBP? Did you just say that? So I guess you dont believe in continuing revelation? I guess you believe that dead prophets are more important than live prophets? I'm not saying that to disrespect President HInckley or any past prophet at all, but rather to point out that if you want to bare your testimony of the HC office, you might want to know a little about their history before you claim its true (as far it is translated [administered] correctly).



And please, if you are going to be so strictured in your adherence to church principles, please provide a reference for your quote and verify that it is accurate. Because if the quote is accurate as you present, that "the HC is inspired" then BY your "inescapable extension" logic does that mean that it is administrated perfectly by imperfect people.

The honor code is inspired, and therefore The honor code office is inspired. Good one. Thats a part of the whole problem. Then why have they changed their policies over and over again? Shall we go banning shorts of any kind? Yep, pure inspiration that ended that policy.

If nothing in the church that was inspired ever changed, we would still be doing everything the way they did it in 1830. The Lord's principles never change, but practices do all the time.