Reporting an HC Violation

If you knew about a prominent BYU athlete who was knowingly breaking the Honor Code, would you report it? What if you weren't a student?

Hell no (but see caveat below). For a few reasons:



1. I hate the HC gestapo

2. It's none of my business. It's not my job to go around narcing on kids who made a mistake. It's between them, their church leaders, and the Lord (notice I left the HC office out of this equation?)

3. BYU athletic success is far more important to me than seeing a kid punished for making a dumb mistake.

4. My name isn't Michelle Peralta



(CAVEAT: If the offense was a potential public safety issue - i.e. drunk driving - then I would report it - but not to the HC office, directly to the police. If that resulted in a suspension or permanent ban, then so be it.)

I really dont' know what I would do. I know putting a "I'm not sure" option is kind of a cop-out, but I really don't know. I'm not a student, so i'm not bound to report it. I hope I never am faced with it.

Y 4 Ever wrote:
Hell no (but see caveat below). For a few reasons:



1. I hate the HC gestapo

2. It's none of my business. It's not my job to go around narcing on kids who made a mistake. It's between them, their church leaders, and the Lord (notice I left the HC office out of this equation?)

3. BYU athletic success is far more important to me than seeing a kid punished for making a dumb mistake.

4. My name isn't Michelle Peralta



(CAVEAT: If the offense was a potential public safety issue - i.e. drunk driving - then I would report it - but not to the HC office, directly to the police. If that resulted in a suspension or permanent ban, then so be it.)

Not a flame to you, numbers, but I just read your number 3 and I just keep reading it like this "BYU athletic success is far more important than someones eternal salvation".



Whether it is a parent, an ecclesiastical leader, a coach, whoever is levying out the "punishment" is not doing it just to spite the person. It is being done to help the person put more perspective on the situation. It is being done as a reminder that a repentance process must be done. They are not doing it just to be a pain in the arse.

To the question posed by Kitic...I would probably approach the person who is violating the HC and talk with them first. I would remind them that they know and I know that what they are doing is harmful (not because the HC may find out but because most major HC infractions are indeed damning to the soul, you know progression stopping). I would encourage them to take corrective action and to stop whatever it is they are doing. I would tell them that I will follow up with them. I also will tell them that because now I know they are doing it, that I am now held responsible for not taking action (again we are talking bigger picture look here) and I can not in good conscience not say anything if they are not working on rectifying the issue. This question is bigger than HC violations. The HC is so minute in the realm of things. I live in California. I do not have a BYU HC. My fellow ward members do not have a BYU HC. If I see one of them violating the law of chastity, WOW, etc...same thing applies. Approach them in love, express my concerns for their eternal well being and try to help them repent and make restitution. I feel if I did not act on behalf of them to help them eternally progress then I too am transgressing.

kiwibacon wrote:

Hell no (but see caveat below). For a few reasons:



1. I hate the HC gestapo

2. It's none of my business. It's not my job to go around narcing on kids who made a mistake. It's between them, their church leaders, and the Lord (notice I left the HC office out of this equation?)

3. BYU athletic success is far more important to me than seeing a kid punished for making a dumb mistake.

4. My name isn't Michelle Peralta



(CAVEAT: If the offense was a potential public safety issue - i.e. drunk driving - then I would report it - but not to the HC office, directly to the police. If that resulted in a suspension or permanent ban, then so be it.)

Not a flame to you, numbers, but I just read your number 3 and I just keep reading it like this "BYU athletic success is far more important than someones eternal salvation".



Whether it is a parent, an ecclesiastical leader, a coach, whoever is levying out the "punishment" is not doing it just to spite the person. It is being done to help put more perspective on the situation. They are not doing it just to be a pain in the arse.

Now you're twisting my words and taking my statement out of context. Whether or not I chose to "tattle" to the HC office on a BYU athlete...let's even leave athlete out of the equation and say "student"...will have no bearing on their "eternal salvation". The question was specifically would you report to the HC office if you knew of a violation. I wouldn't. Period. Depending on the situation, would I talk to someone ELSE about it? I might - depending on the situation, and my relationship with that individual. I might discuss it with them, their parents, their bishop, or even report it to the police, etc. It's not my duty to report HC violations to the HC gestapo, and I wouldn't do it no matter the situation. And I wouldn't feel like I was jeopardizing their eternal salvation because of it. I wouldn't jeopardize someone's "eternal salvation" for athletic success - but I wouldn't jeopardize athletic success so that the HC can dole out punishments. And in my mind, these two are very different.

I think I would also go and talk to them. Then I'd have them sign a document promising me 10% of their professional salary in exchange for my silence.



It's the only right thing to do cause athletics and millions of dollars are more important to me.

Y 4 Ever wrote:

Y 4 Ever wrote:
Hell no (but see caveat below). For a few reasons:



1. I hate the HC gestapo

2. It's none of my business. It's not my job to go around narcing on kids who made a mistake. It's between them, their church leaders, and the Lord (notice I left the HC office out of this equation?)

3. BYU athletic success is far more important to me than seeing a kid punished for making a dumb mistake.

4. My name isn't Michelle Peralta



(CAVEAT: If the offense was a potential public safety issue - i.e. drunk driving - then I would report it - but not to the HC office, directly to the police. If that resulted in a suspension or permanent ban, then so be it.)

Not a flame to you, numbers, but I just read your number 3 and I just keep reading it like this "BYU athletic success is far more important than someones eternal salvation".



Whether it is a parent, an ecclesiastical leader, a coach, whoever is levying out the "punishment" is not doing it just to spite the person. It is being done to help put more perspective on the situation. They are not doing it just to be a pain in the arse.

Now you're twisting my words and taking my statement out of context. Whether or not I chose to "tattle" to the HC office on a BYU athlete...let's even leave athlete out of the equation and say "student"...will have no bearing on their "eternal salvation". The question was specifically would you report to the HC office if you knew of a violation. I wouldn't. Period. Depending on the situation, would I talk to someone ELSE about it? I might - depending on the situation, and my relationship with that individual. I might discuss it with them, their parents, their bishop, or even report it to the police, etc. It's not my duty to report HC violations to the HC gestapo, and I wouldn't do it no matter the situation. And I wouldn't feel like I was jeopardizing their eternal salvation because of it. I wouldn't jeopardize someone's "eternal salvation" for athletic success - but I wouldn't jeopardize athletic success so that the HC can dole out punishments. And in my mind, these two are very different.

Again, it was not meant as a twist of words etc...I think you and I are in agreement. I would probably not report it to the HC either but I would definitely talk to them and their peer and possibly any authority that should know about it. I did not mean to twist your words. I guess I was more just saying what thought kept coming to my head even though I know that is not what you meant.



You did bring up one follow up question. I did not attend BYU so I do not know EVERYTHING pertaining to the HC. When you are a student and therefore sign an HC agreement, is there something in the HC that you signed and agreed that states if you see HC violations that you must report them to the HC? If there is would some people still not report it? I probably would not depending on the severity of it but I guess I will never know what I would really do because I will never be placed in that circumstance.

Unless it is harming someone, other than the person committing the misdeed, it is absolutely 0% your business. 0%, none, nada, zilch, mind your own business. It is between them, their conscience, god, and their Ecclesiastical leader. If they are ok lying to get a free education then that is up to them. Not you to "save" them from themselves. I know a girl who was reported to the HC office for "immodest" pictures on her facebook. This is serisously what these kids have to deal with.

I would say no. I would probably handle in one of a few ways with the two most likely being



1. If he is a friend too I would try to be a good example and help him make better choices and do whatever he needed to in good standing with the Lord.



2. If I didn't know him I would forget about it because I am external to his situation. As far as I know he has been fighting some behavior and may actually be right on the cusp of overcoming it and me getting involved may cause him to backslide. In situations like this I think of the guy that was driving real fast and was passing a bunch of cars and got me so mad that I followed him to let him know that he was wrong. So while I chewed him out when we finally stopped the nurse had to ask me to get out of the way so they could take his comatose child into the ER. (didn't really happen but it was a story I had heard that kind of emphasied to me the point that I should never assume).



3. One last reason would be that I don't know the entire situation. And by that I mean I don't know the people that would be involved. I would hope they were interested in person's eternal salvation, that to me is the point of the HC. But someone in that office may have a bone to pick and that could lead to a bureaucrat weilding the power of the University for retribution. I have a relative that slept through church growing up. When he graduated from HS he stopped going altogether. A couple of years later a new EQ Pres sent home teachers to visit him and he told them he didn't want to be visited. He then told his mom to tell the people at church to just leave him alone. So the EQ gets upset, goes to his appartment and wants to talk to him and "straighten out" the issue. As far as my relative was concerned there was no issue. Just leave him alone. Well now the EQ pres is furious becuase the guy wouldn't let him in to talk about it. So he sends a letter basically stating that he wants him off the rolls of the church. The kid tells him mom to tell them to take his name off but she says she won't do it. It becomes evident that he doesn't really want to be taken off but that he just isn't ready to put church where it belongs in life. Doesn't phase the EQ Pres. FF a year, my relative is engaged, he and his fiance graduate. They take a job in another state and instead of getting two appartments they get one. They commit to each other to "wait until they get married" and move into seperate rooms in the appartment. He comments to his mom a few times that they want their wedding day to be special and are not "doing" anything. The job is an 18 month stint before coming back to finish his masters. So they return 18 mos later. The EQ pres finds out they are in his ward again. He hears through the grapevine that they may have lived together for a month or so before getting married. Next thing you know my relative is getting a letter to appear before a church court. He has no interest in appearing there, he doesn't want home teachers let alone to face a church court. So the EQ presses and because he doesn't show, based on hearsay, my relative gets excommunicated. Bare in mind that he didn't have a testimony, had been asking some questions of his mom about "what do we beleive" and married a Catholic girl. I still find it unbelievable that he got excommunicated without any concrete evidence and that it was pushed and pushed until it happened by that EQ pres. Now he has no desire to come back, his wife is very upset with the treatment he got and his kids will grow up hearing mostly bad things from their parents about the church. One guy pissed off because someone had the odacity to not let him, the EQ President, into their home. I knew the EQ Pres very well and knew of at least a few people he had "gotten rid of" at work because they said or did something to upset him. These people exist and so I will always take the approach that discretion is the better part...

You are not required to report honor code violations. The Honor Code asks signees to "Encourage others in their commitment to comply with the Honor Code."

Honestly it depends on the violation... I had a roommate who would retrurn home at 5:00 in the morning as I was leaving to work after spending the night with his girlfreind. I never thought to report him, I tend to leave people alone...but if he was drinking IN the apartment and it affected me I'd have talked to him or reported if it didn't go away soon enough - So I put "no" but it's really a "it depends"

So, personal story on this one.



I had a roommate that was an athlete. Not football or basketball, but an athlete nonetheless. He was a member, but not a big fan of the Honor Code. Most of the time, he was just really, really, REALLY obnoxious without doing anything wrong. When he kept me from getting sleep before a midterm because he and his brain-dead bimbo squad were still in the apartment after midnight and didn't have the simple decency to at least shut up, tolerated it and asked him not to do that anymore.



When I had to step in between him and the girl that was on the floor in the hallway calling for help and ended up wrestling him (I was way overmatched - dude was a ripped 230 and I'd very generous saying that I was a scrawny 135), I left it to the girl to report it to the HC office. Whether or not she did I don't know.



When he had a bipolar explosion and threatened to kill me, I told him to go ahead, but that there would be consequences. As this was at a time where I was flying out to job interviews on weekends and only had 3-4 days a week to actually get my classwork done, I decided it was high time he was no longer just my problem. So I took it to the university police and the Honor Code office. While at the latter, I found out that he already had 5 other complaints against him in various states of processing. Sadly for me, nothing was done before the rest of the semester and I spent a good portion of my time avoiding my apartment, and I am eternally grateful to divine providence that I still managed to get decent grades and not die that semester. I graduated and moved out of state, so I have no idea about the details of what happened from all that.



What I do know is that he was removed from the team and lost whatever scholarship he had. He eventually went on a mission, and that is definitely not the direction he was headed in when he lived with me. I think in the end it all worked out positively for him. I hope so, anyway.



My experience may not be representative of how these things usually play out. But if it is, what it tells me is that it takes quite a while to get the ball rolling on some of these things, even if violence and the police get involved, and usually the major complaint that ends things isn't the first or only one. Now, on a high profile case they may fast track things, I dunno. But depending on the issue, it may not only be the best thing for the person you're going to narc on (i.e., a wake-up call so they can mend their ways), but also the best thing for those they interact with (i.e., protection against violence, collateral damage from substance abuse, sexual abuse, etc.). If we're aware of something that's going on, athlete or not, we need to be involved as early as possible in trying to help them. Whether that means a personal chat with them, talking to their bishop, talking to the HC office, or getting the police involved is going to depend on the situation. But the focus needs to be on helping them and protecting others. We don't do anybody a favor by completely ignoring inappropriate behavior at any level.