College Hoops Heisman or Sweet 16... bigger for BYU?

Which is bigger for the future of BYU hoops?



I'll take the Wooden and AP player of the year aka "Heisman"... this team isn't equipped to win a national championship and it would be a longshot to make the final four (possible) so I want the POY notch in our belt.



I didn't put final 8 or final four because I think the answer would be too obvious, but we haven't been to the 3rd round of the NCAAs in 20 years so don't underestimate the value of the Sweet 16.

Definitely sweet 16 for me.



The POY award would be hollow without making some kind of run in the tourney. I'm pretty sure Jimmer would agree

tmoney35 wrote:
Definitely sweet 16 for me.



The POY award would be hollow without making some kind of run in the tourney. I'm pretty sure Jimmer would agree

I'm sure Jimmer would agree; but I'm thinking about if I had to pick only one, I want the biggest bang for our recruiting buck.



Like I said, elite 8 and final four is such a no brainer choice that I had to put sweet 16 and if I had a choice between POY and Sweet 16, I think we benefit more from the Heisman than a nice but forgettable season in 3-4 years. No one will forget Jimmer.

If we had CC I would say we'd have a lot better shot at advancing pretty deep in the tourney. The Wooden award would be nice but it wouldn't be enough for Jimmer and crew. When is the national player of the year announced? Jimmer may need to take his team to the elite 8 at least otherwise it will probably go to Sullinger. We'd have rough time against a team like Ohio State. Lauderdale and Sullinger would give us fits, especially without CC.



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Without a sweet 16 there will be no final four, everyone still talks about Ainge's dash through Notre Dame, not his POY....

A Sweet 16 run for sure. While Jimmer may not "sweep" the end of season individual awards, he's going to get at least one of them. So the first option is a non-sequitur. Rose can pretty much already sell that one to recruits ("come to BYU and you can be a national player of the year"). What he can't sell yet is a tourney run.

Good point ABYUFAN. Then again, what was remembered was that DA's drive took BYU to the Elite 8--which then becomes the focus not the Sweet 16--which is why Craig delineated by listing Sweet 16 vs Elite 8..

I'd say given the two choices, POY is more visible for recruiting. As was pointed out in another thread, alot of tems have made it to the Sweet 16. I think many recruits would be surprised that we hadnt made it to the Sweet 16, give all the success of the program. Making the Sweet 16 for fans seems much greater because we have showed so poorly in the last 20 years, except for last year. Fans are more hungry for Sweet 16. But a top player would weigh POY higher. We have been making the tourney for several years--thats not the issue. Its Rose's system that really helped produce POY for JImmer, not taking anything away from the Jimmer.

Further, Does Detmer's Heisman stand out or the team's late season collapse that year?

Making it to the Sweet Sixteen is coachable thus in my opinion a better recruiting tool, than something that may not be as coachable (POY). As good as a coach that Rose is do we really think that Jimmer would not have gotten where he is today if he was under another coach? Jimmer is that good and not necessarily a reflection on BYU but a reflection of Jimmer. Sweet Sixteen would be a reflection of BYU and their coaching.



Sweet Sixteen would be my choice.

dmcougar wrote:
Good point. Then again, what was remembered was that DA's drive took BYU to the Elite 8--which then becomes the focus not the Sweet 16--which is why Craig delineated by listing Sweet 16 vs Elite 8..

I'd say given the two choices, POY is more visible for recruiting.

Does Detmer's Heisman stand out or the team's late season collapse?

Agreed, an elite 8 is a no brainer and a sweet 16 itself is a very hard choice. Would I want 2 wins in the NCAAs and that's it (no elite 8 ) or for Jimmer to sweep the POY awards? To me that's the question and I'm really torn.



If you're voting for sweet 16 because it means elite 8 , then I don't think people are getting the idea of the poll.



It's about high watermarks and you can't have both in this poll. Win 2 games in the dance as the notch in your belt or Jimmer sweeps the Wooden and AP player of the year awards. I'm really torn there, but I'll take Jimmer because Ainge was so long ago that I don't think recruits would know his style of play etc. They've seen Jimmer and I think his success = recruiting success and I'm 100% a recruitnik.



An elite 8 is an absolute no brainer which is why it's not a choice.



Neither is assuming that Jimmer has already won the awards; the poll doesnt' offer you a choice to pic sweet 16 because you believe Jimmer will get some too.



It's a hypothetical choice (you don't get anymore than what the poll offers) and if you had to make one, which would you choose?



Hopefully we dont' have to in reality, but here you do and it's one of the tougher choices, I think.

craigoscarson wrote:

Good point. Then again, what was remembered was that DA's drive took BYU to the Elite 8--which then becomes the focus not the Sweet 16--which is why Craig delineated by listing Sweet 16 vs Elite 8..

I'd say given the two choices, POY is more visible for recruiting.

Does Detmer's Heisman stand out or the team's late season collapse?

Agreed, an elite 8 is a no brainer and a sweet 16 itself is a very hard choice. Would I want 2 wins in the NCAAs and that's it (no elite 8 ) or for Jimmer to sweep the POY awards? To me that's the question and I'm really torn.



If you're voting for sweet 16 because it means elite 8 , then I don't think people are getting the idea of the poll.



...



It's a hypothetical choice (you don't get anymore than what the poll offers) and if you had to make one, which would you choose? ....

Hopefully we dont' have to in reality, but here you do and it's one of the tougher choices, I think.

Thank goodness we will not have to make that choice as both will happen...therefore I don't like this poll. :P :love:



Edit-forgot my blue goggles. :crazy: :crazy:

kiwibacon wrote:
Making it to the Sweet Sixteen is coachable thus in my opinion a better recruiting tool, than something that may not be as coachable (POY). As good as a coach that Rose is do we really think that Jimmer would not have gotten where he is today if he was under another coach? Jimmer is that good and not necessarily a reflection on BYU but a reflection of Jimmer. Sweet Sixteen would be a reflection of BYU and their coaching.



Sweet Sixteen would be my choice.

There have been many many teams to win 2 games in the NCAAs, most are forgettable.



The players of the year (that actually swept all the awards) aren't so forgettable.

i see what you're saying, but my vote still goes for sweet 16. My opinion is that another 1st or 2nd round exit in the tourney hurts recruiting more than Jimmer's POY helps.



I just desperately want to make it to the second weekend. POY doesn't matter a whole lot to me

craigoscarson wrote:



There have been many many teams to win 2 games in the NCAAs, most are forgettable.



The players of the year (that actually swept all the awards) aren't so forgettable.

Does the POY reflect on the school or on the player?





As someone said on the "Next Years team will Surprise" thread, Rose has established a system that will consistently be a tournament team. As a recruit that would have more sway on me than if someone that went to that school was the POY. Kids are not choosing to go to BYU because Detmer won the Heisman forever ago...they are choosing to play football at BYU because Bronco has a successful system that is winning.

I agree with Craig. Fredette winning national awards will be much longer memorable than BYU making the Sweet 16. Those awards are the individual player's personal national championship, even though they usually are only won on team that are good along with their star. So in my mind, a player national championship or a team advance of two wins--that just doesn't seem comparable and seems obvious in my mind, but apparently I'm of a minor view.

craigoscarson wrote:
Which is bigger for the future of BYU hoops?

EM_Puma wrote:
I agree with Craig. Fredette winning national awards will be much longer memorable than BYU making the Sweet 16. Those awards are the individual player's personal national championship, even though they usually are only won on team that are good along with their star. So in my mind, a player national championship or a team advance of two wins--that just doesn't seem comparable and seems obvious in my mind, but apparently I'm of a minor view.

I guess I took what he is asking and am looking forward (future) than backwards (memorable/past). What will be bigger for the future: that someone played at BYU or that a coach or system is in place that is always getting to the Sweet Sixteen? Fine we don't make it past sweet sixteen this year but a recruit we say that with them maybe they will next year.

16 teams make the sweet 16 every year, a player like Jimmer who captures the media's attention is a once-a-century kinda guy, I'll take the POY if I have to take just one.

Schmoe wrote:
16 teams make the sweet 16 every year, a player like Jimmer who captures the media's attention is a once-a-century kinda guy, I'll take the POY if I have to take just one.

Except Jimmer has the media's attention whether he wins the POY or not, I think that all of that attention would be wasted if we fail to even win two games in the tournament.

Runs are much more important to future success. Look at what a single run did for Gonzaga years ago. Michigan St. gets the benefit of the doubt every year because they always advance far no matter their seed. BYU needs to reach the status of such teams that regularly justify the selection committee's vote of confidence. Tourney run trumps individual awards because whether or not Jimmer wins anything he will be remembered.

What qualifies as a "tournament run"? Again, for BYU fans, its "make to the second weekend. For top players, it s something more than that, namely win your sweet 16 game, not just have a chance.

To say it another way: Making it to the Elite 8 in dramatic fashion, ala "Danny Ainge's drive" transcends his POY honor. Making it to the Sweet 16 does not transcend NPOY honors. I'm glad that as a player Jimmer doesnt think this (I dont think), but barely making it to the Sweet 16 simply does not transcend NPOY honors particularly for Blue-chip players.

I think both are likely, but most importantly, it comes down to Rose staying.



:utard: made it to the sweet 16 when Bogut won POY. Look at them now.



I think tomorrow will tell all: BYU wins, they will be an Elite 8 team.