Has Jimmer changed?

Conference play gets testy, we all know that. Jimmer is simply not the same player he was when he started the year. He started a pre-season 1st conference team pick and has become a deity. People write songs, wait for hours in the snow and then the media don't even talk about his "mediocre" 20 point nights.



This changes a person. Here's what I've seen:



Jimmer used to smile all game long. I don't see him smiling much anymore.

Jimmer used to ignore the officials, now I see him having dozens of long conversations with them all game long.

Jimmer used to be single. Now he's dating a frilly cheerleader.

Jimmer is getting his points. but it's been a bit ugly. Turnover are up, shooting % is a bit down over the last few games.

He's also been frustrated. something that never would have happened early on.



I don't think any of this means much. We're still winning and there's no one in the country I'd trade for The Jimmer. But as fun and intense as this season has been, I think it's taking its toll.

CougarClaw wrote:
Conference play gets testy, we all know that. Jimmer is simply not the same player he was when he started the year. He started a pre-season 1st conference team pick and has become a deity. People write songs, wait for hours in the snow and then the media don't even talk about his "mediocre" 20 point nights.



This changes a person. Here's what I've seen:



Jimmer used to smile all game long. I don't see him smiling much anymore.

Jimmer used to ignore the officials, now I see him having dozens of long conversations with them all game long.

Jimmer used to be single. Now he's dating a frilly cheerleader.

Jimmer is getting his points. but it's been a bit ugly. Turnover are up, shooting % is a bit down over the last few games.

He's also been frustrated. something that never would have happened early on.



I don't think any of this means much. We're still winning and there's no one in the country I'd trade for The Jimmer. But as fun and intense as this season has been, I think it's taking its toll.

JImmer was not getting hacked early in the year to the extent he is now and teams have also found ways to double and triple team him more effectively and hold him under thirty points. Meanwhile he is coming down to the wire for POY, national scoring leader, Best BYU player ever, best BYU team ever, best player from the state of Utah ever and on and on. I do think he presses to get his scoring average to keep all of that in play - surpass Ainge, etc. He played injured today. And - all that after having to jet all over making appearances - jet lag and what not.



And he still is a team player and tries to do what the team needs to do to win.



He has changed a little - did I mention NBA draft pressure - but not really that much.

It's hard not to notice those things, but he also knows that the closer he gets to the end of his senior season the closer he is to getting his final judgment from the NBA. I think the last few games have frustrated him because he is not getting foul calls in the lane. What he needs to do is post up in the high post more like he did last night one time. At that range defenses don't have any good options.



His game last night was not good imo. He should have passed a whole lot more than he did...my guess is since the team had missed a few open shots that he assumed he needed to take over. However, that was not the right call.

I'm really glad CougarClaw posted this. It was all stuff that I have been thinking about but I didn't want to be the one to start the post. :blush:



Anyway, I am a little worried about The Jimmer too. I don't know near as much about the game of basketball as all of you guys, but I have noticed this stuff too. I mean, is 30 some-odd points acceptable even if you have a ton of turnovers and a low shooting percentage AND three or four other guys on the team score in double digits.....and.....you WIN the game??!!! Seems to me that is acceptable!



Seems to me it doesn't matter how sloppy he plays if he's sharing the ball (which, contrary to what some critics say, he DOES do). Plus he is scoring 20, 30 or 40 points per game, etc. People are also saying "well, that won't work in the tourney". Really?! Why not?! What's so "different" about the big dance? And don't tell me "Well, the way he plays won't work against teams like Duke or Kansas". Really?! Why not? It's been working all year long.



I don't know, as I said, I don't know near as much as you guys (as is probably apparent from this post), but quite frankly, I am tired of the critics pointing out his "sloppy play", etc. even when the guy kills himself and gets over 30 points, but I do agree with the OP in that The Jimmer is a different ball player than he was earlier in the season. I'm kinda worried about him. He's such a great kid and player.

From my passive watching it seems like his attitude has changed. I'm not attributing that to him thinking he is better than his teammates, rather the frustrations from getting hammered and no fouls called, the pressure from being a NPOY candidate/front runner, etc. I think he understands what it would do for the program if he won the award and they had a deep run in the tourney this year and that much of the potential for a run is dependent upon favorable matchups in the tourney.

I hope he can blow off some of the pressure @ SDSU on saturday and just play within the offense and not force so much. He'll get his points, there's no question in my mind of that, but he can limit his turnovers if he played a little more within the flow of the game. Anyway, my opinion.

For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure Jimmer was dating a cheerleader as far back as last year (I'm not certain it's the same cheerleader, but a cheerleader nonetheless.)



Jimmer these days, at least in terms of on-court persona, reminds me less of a prima donna and more like somebody who is stressed out of his mind. I can accept that the days of smiling and waving to the camera are over if he can use some of the pressure to motivate himself.

Great thread. All reasonably good points. I think Jimmer has changed as well. How could one not change. Austin Collie had a certain swagger and panache. I think anyone who exudes sufficient confidence to take them to the pro level and excel, almost have to have that inner something.

BUt I agree with the stress and toll of all of this more than an arrogance, but that is present too. Frequently complaining about the refs; trying to over-create something and turning it over and expecting a bail-out....he's hammered more in the second half of the season, but he is still getting to the free throw line. I would love to see him retaliate like he did last night when he took it coast-to-coast with authority.

And by the way, JIimmer did try this "approach" against KSU last year in the tourney and his supporting cast did not step up as much as needed and they hit their wall. This year the supporting cast is more experienced and getting it done.

dmcougar wrote:
Great thread. All reasonably good points. I think Jimmer has changed as well. How could one not change. Austin Collie had a certain swagger and panache. I think anyone who exudes sufficient confidence to take them to the pro level and excel, almost have to have that inner something.

BUt I agree with the stress and toll of all of this more than an arrogance, but that is present too. Frequently complaining about the refs; trying to over-create something and turning it over and expecting a bail-out....he's hammered more in the second half of the season, but he is still getting to the free throw line. I would love to see him retaliate like he did last night when he took it coast-to-coast with authority.

And by the way, JIimmer did try this "approach" against KSU last year in the tourney and his supporting cast did not step up as much as needed and they hit their wall. This year the supporting cast is more experienced and getting it done.

Great point. Let's hope that the Jimmer can muster enough confidence in his supporting cast to let them carry some of the load.

Agree, Jimmer certainly doesn't seem to be having as much fun as he used to. There's more pressure on him now and whether he acknowledges consciously or sub-consiously its there.



At the beginning of the season there was no pressure to be national POY, leading scorer, or take BYU to the Final Four. Even we didn't speculate as much. The most we hoped for was a trip to the Sweet 16.



I just hope it doesn't make him crack or affect the team chemistry too much. I mentioned this earlier, with the number of press interviews, etc. he's doing a day he can't help but think about himself more. He spends several hours each day preparing and answering question about himself; consequently, his ego will grow.



Jimmer has always been hacked. It's part of his game. Is he getting bumped around more so than usual, maybe. He got bumped around quite a bit last year too. He may, though, feel more confident or comfortable complaining to the refs. Certainly more is on the line for him than ever before.



He needs to take a step back, play within his elements. He knows the contact is coming, he knows he's not going to get the calls. Perfect time to start boosting your assist numbers.

He's been dating the same cheerleader for almost two years now...so that hasn't really changed.

declocoug wrote:

Great thread. All reasonably good points. I think Jimmer has changed as well. How could one not change. Austin Collie had a certain swagger and panache. I think anyone who exudes sufficient confidence to take them to the pro level and excel, almost have to have that inner something.

BUt I agree with the stress and toll of all of this more than an arrogance, but that is present too. Frequently complaining about the refs; trying to over-create something and turning it over and expecting a bail-out....he's hammered more in the second half of the season, but he is still getting to the free throw line. I would love to see him retaliate like he did last night when he took it coast-to-coast with authority.

And by the way, JIimmer did try this "approach" against KSU last year in the tourney and his supporting cast did not step up as much as needed and they hit their wall. This year the supporting cast is more experienced and getting it done.

Great point. Let's hope that the Jimmer can muster enough confidence in his supporting cast to let them carry some of the load.

Gotta disagree a little bit here - How many shots did Rodgers miss last night? He didn't make any. It was more than 2 or 3. SOmeone posted Jimmer could move his assists number up. That only goes up if guys make the shots. When CSU starts crawling back into the game - I start getting glad Jimmer takes the game over. I wish he had taken the New Mexico game and UCLA game over when everyone else was shooting so cold.



It is a fine line - how long to let guys keep shooting and missing before trying to take it over even when JImmer is a little off on his own shooting.



Let's hope everyone is shooting well Saturday morning.

Cougarbib2 wrote:

dmcougar wrote:
Great thread. All reasonably good points. I think Jimmer has changed as well. How could one not change. Austin Collie had a certain swagger and panache. I think anyone who exudes sufficient confidence to take them to the pro level and excel, almost have to have that inner something.

BUt I agree with the stress and toll of all of this more than an arrogance, but that is present too. Frequently complaining about the refs; trying to over-create something and turning it over and expecting a bail-out....he's hammered more in the second half of the season, but he is still getting to the free throw line. I would love to see him retaliate like he did last night when he took it coast-to-coast with authority.

And by the way, JIimmer did try this "approach" against KSU last year in the tourney and his supporting cast did not step up as much as needed and they hit their wall. This year the supporting cast is more experienced and getting it done.

Great point. Let's hope that the Jimmer can muster enough confidence in his supporting cast to let them carry some of the load.

Gotta disagree a little bit here - How many shots did Rodgers miss last night? He didn't make any. It was more than 2 or 3. SOmeone posted Jimmer could move his assists number up. That only goes up if guys make the shots. When CSU starts crawling back into the game - I start getting glad Jimmer takes the game over. I wish he had taken the New Mexico game and UCLA game over when everyone else was shooting so cold.



It is a fine line - how long to let guys keep shooting and missing before trying to take it over even when JImmer is a little off on his own shooting.



Let's hope everyone is shooting well Saturday morning.

A little off? Jimmer has been shooting only 38 percent in something like the last five games. That's nearly a 10 percent decline in the last 3 weeks. Gotta keep in mind part of the reason Jimmer still gets his 30+ pts despite shooting below 40 percent is because he takes so many shots. Yes, I know you'll say he gets fouled and misses shots because of fouls, but even he admitted during the CSU post-game interview that he's been forcing things and didn't take very good shots.



True, Jimmer's assist number goes up only if his team members make shots, but it's a chicken before the egg type thing. Shooting is as much about getting in a rhythm as it is getting open. Hard to get in a rhythm when you're not getting enough touches.



Also, rather than force a shot and turn the ball over like we've seen many a time from Jimmer the last few games, I'd take may chances with passing the ball to an open Rogers. Jimmer then doesn't get hit with the turnover and there's a good a chance of Rogers making the shot as there is Jimmer trying to thread it between 3 defenders. If he's worried about his draft stock, charging through defenders and dribbling the ball out of bounds looks worse than passing it to an open teammate who then misses the shot. NBA scouts aren't looking at whether Rogers makes the shot, they're looking at whether Jimmer sees and makes the pass, which he isn't doing so well right now.



Agree, let's hope everyone is shooting well come Sat.

benchwarmer wrote:
He's been dating the same cheerleader for almost two years now...so that hasn't really changed.

Two years! He must be waiting for an NBA payday so he can buy her a proper ring.

declocoug wrote:

And by the way, JIimmer did try this "approach" against KSU last year in the tourney and his supporting cast did not step up as much as needed and they hit their wall. This year the supporting cast is more experienced and getting it done.

Great point. Let's hope that the Jimmer can muster enough confidence in his supporting cast to let them carry some of the load.

In the biggest game of the year vs SDSU in the Marriot Center a few weeks ago, the only players to show up offensively was Jimmer and Davies. The supporting cast did not support very well in a game under pressure. If they hope to win at SDSU, it will have to be more than just Jimmer....

I disagree with most everything said on this post.



Jimmer is not full of himself - by any stretch of the terming. Is he confident? Absolutely, but it has been that way for 2 years now.



The guy has a bum shoulder, a bum calf, and is playing 38 minutes a game.

You really expect him to be all smiles playing tough games, hurt, for almost the entire length of the game?



Simply put, basketball is becoming a career for Jimmer, and not a hobby anymore. Each game has serious implications. Each shot has implications. If the game isn't fun for him, it's because it isn't fun playing hurt under a lot of pressure.



I get migraine headaches semi-frequently when I am very stressed out, and I don't go to church when I get them bad. (I am an instructor for the EQ, so that gives you something to measure against.) I just don't want to A) walk around with a fake smile, when every step makes me want to vomit. OR B) Have everyone huddling around me asking what's wrong, and what they can do.

- JImmer has "no choice" to play; tired or no, sick or no, injured or no. So don't expect him to smile as he is being pounded into the floor repeatedly. Don't expect him to smile, when once again, noone on his team wants to take a shot and they are all just standing around waiting for him to make sonething happen again.

Don't expect him to have fun when his team is blowing leads of more than 10 points because they can't hit a bloody wide open shot while he is getting double teamed.

Gunk wrote:

declocoug wrote:

Great thread. All reasonably good points. I think Jimmer has changed as well. How could one not change. Austin Collie had a certain swagger and panache. I think anyone who exudes sufficient confidence to take them to the pro level and excel, almost have to have that inner something.

BUt I agree with the stress and toll of all of this more than an arrogance, but that is present too. Frequently complaining about the refs; trying to over-create something and turning it over and expecting a bail-out....he's hammered more in the second half of the season, but he is still getting to the free throw line. I would love to see him retaliate like he did last night when he took it coast-to-coast with authority.

And by the way, JIimmer did try this "approach" against KSU last year in the tourney and his supporting cast did not step up as much as needed and they hit their wall. This year the supporting cast is more experienced and getting it done.

Great point. Let's hope that the Jimmer can muster enough confidence in his supporting cast to let them carry some of the load.

Actually my response is that 35%, frustrating as it is, beats zero %. Jimmer did not give up on hitting an open Rogers. Rose pulled Rodgers after what seemed like half a dozen misses. You didn't answer the question - how many did Rogers miss?



Gotta disagree a little bit here - How many shots did Rodgers miss last night? He didn't make any. It was more than 2 or 3. SOmeone posted Jimmer could move his assists number up. That only goes up if guys make the shots. When CSU starts crawling back into the game - I start getting glad Jimmer takes the game over. I wish he had taken the New Mexico game and UCLA game over when everyone else was shooting so cold.



It is a fine line - how long to let guys keep shooting and missing before trying to take it over even when JImmer is a little off on his own shooting.



Let's hope everyone is shooting well Saturday morning.

A little off? Jimmer has been shooting only 38 percent in something like the last five games. That's nearly a 10 percent decline in the last 3 weeks. Gotta keep in mind part of the reason Jimmer still gets his 30+ pts despite shooting below 40 percent is because he takes so many shots. Yes, I know you'll say he gets fouled and misses shots because of fouls, but even he admitted during the CSU post-game interview that he's been forcing things and didn't take very good shots.



True, Jimmer's assist number goes up only if his team members make shots, but it's a chicken before the egg type thing. Shooting is as much about getting in a rhythm as it is getting open. Hard to get in a rhythm when you're not getting enough touches.



Also, rather than force a shot and turn the ball over like we've seen many a time from Jimmer the last few games, I'd take may chances with passing the ball to an open Rogers. Jimmer then doesn't get hit with the turnover and there's a good a chance of Rogers making the shot as there is Jimmer trying to thread it between 3 defenders. If he's worried about his draft stock, charging through defenders and dribbling the ball out of bounds looks worse than passing it to an open teammate who then misses the shot. NBA scouts aren't looking at whether Rogers makes the shot, they're looking at whether Jimmer sees and makes the pass, which he isn't doing so well right now.



Agree, let's hope everyone is shooting well come Sat.

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The dude is tired, hurt, we are getting to the end of a long season and as soon as all this is done he will get rewarded with three games in three days at UNLV's home. All this while he is now being mauled by players from the other team. I give him credit for even cracking a smile during the game on Wednesday. I'm just glad the teams so far are not doing what the commentators at MTN suggested. Put a shoulder into the middle of his chest although the elbo to the jaw is probably still hurting.



The one thing that has been bothering me however, is that in many posts people keep talking about going deep into the tournament. Now if you were all about the $ I could see that as being the objective but I sure hope Dave and Co. don't think along those same lines. I hope they are going into this tournment planning to be the last team standing. And I wholeheartly believe that they are one of the few teams that have a very realistic chance of winning the whole thing. I even see us winning the game at SDST Saturday. We have the better team, we have the best defensive player in the MWC and probably top 3 in the ncaa. We have the best scorer in the NCAA, we have one of the best low post defensive players in the MWC (Hartsock), one of the top rebounders who can also score down low and continues to get better and better every game. And all around them we have very capable players that can hit shots, play defense, and get rebounds. We have a complete team. We even have a big man stopper (Abouo) who can stop big men that can dribble penetrate. Guys I like our chances with this team. :crazy:

Has Jimmer changed?

I think the better question is "Have you been changed by Jimmer? Have you received his image in your countenance?" :whistle:









Great discussion guys. Sorry I railroaded it for a second. :blush:

imuakahuku wrote:
The dude is tired, hurt, we are getting to the end of a long season and as soon as all this is done he will get rewarded with three games in three days at UNLV's home. All this while he is now being mauled by players from the other team. I give him credit for even cracking a smile during the game on Wednesday. I'm just glad the teams so far are not doing what the commentators at MTN suggested. Put a shoulder into the middle of his chest although the elbo to the jaw is probably still hurting.



The one thing that has been bothering me however, is that in many posts people keep talking about going deep into the tournament. Now if you were all about the $ I could see that as being the objective but I sure hope Dave and Co. don't think along those same lines. I hope they are going into this tournment planning to be the last team standing. And I wholeheartly believe that they are one of the few teams that have a very realistic chance of winning the whole thing. I even see us winning the game at SDST Saturday. We have the better team, we have the best defensive player in the MWC and probably top 3 in the ncaa. We have the best scorer in the NCAA, we have one of the best low post defensive players in the MWC (Hartsock), one of the top rebounders who can also score down low and continues to get better and better every game. And all around them we have very capable players that can hit shots, play defense, and get rebounds. We have a complete team. We even have a big man stopper (Abouo) who can stop big men that can dribble penetrate. Guys I like our chances with this team. :crazy:

Good points. If both teams show up tomorrow and play well, I like BYU's chances of winning. They all know how big of a game this is.

Have you ever played a board or a card (or sports) game where everyone at the table is cheating but you? It doesn't matter how much you love the game, it just isn't any fun. It pisses you off. And if you're a real competitor, like Jimmer is, you simply can't take it.