Referee to Rose" Take Fredette Out"

I didn't even know they could do this...



Per Drew tweet:



"Referee Mike Reed just told Dave Rose to take Fredette out of the game. Said, "He's losing control."



I can only think of one reason why.

Don't make Jimmer angry. You wouldn't like him when he's angry.


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Yeah, what was up with that? Was the ref worried that Jimmer was going to start throwing punches at the Utes that kept knocking him to the floor? I have an idea...call a foul?!

CAFB_04-12 wrote:
Yeah, what was up with that? Was the ref worried that Jimmer was going to start throwing punches at the Utes that kept knocking him to the floor? I have an idea...call a foul?!

Exactly.



Translation of Referee's lame words= "I'm close to losing control of this game and want you to do something about it."

here's another idea.



MWC asked me not call fouls on JF so can you take him out before I do nothing?

If it was the incident I think it was, here is what I saw happen. On the phantom charge call, Jimmer hit the deck and Jimmer didn't get immediately to his feet. He stayed on the floor and looked up to the ref. Realizing the ref was basically on top of him, Jimmer slid away from the ref before beginning to talk to the ref. Perhaps the ref felt Jimmer was trying to show him up by sliding on the floor.



In all honesty, if this did happen, I can see it from the ref's perspective. However, the ref should not be telling Rose how to manage his substitutions. But I'd rather a ref tell a coach that a player is getting close to a T so something can happen before then.



Officials should be communicating with coaches and players. But they should also be calling all fouls they see. Jimmer shot 13 FTs the last two games when he probably should have shot about 40.



Again, I really think the refs are hesitant to call fouls on Jimmer because they 1) don't want to stop the game every possession and want the game to flow and 2) are afraid of sending Jimmer to the line 20 to 25 times a game. They seem to be okay with him getting there 7-9 times a game, but don't want him in double figure attempts.

Jimmer struggled, forced some bad shots, had a bad game for 33 minutes and was frustrated. I thought Utah played him really well. Jimmer just never got a flow until late. Luckily, Abuou picked the team up tonight early, and Jimmer did late. Not a great BYU performance, but was a win all the same In a rivalry game, you always take it.

I watched on TV and couldn't see the whole event, but it appeared to me that after the referee made what Jimmer thought was a bad call (and he was probably right), instead of handing the ball to the referee, he would throw it to the referee at half court. Nice way to say, "Dude, you screwed up... Instead of giving you the ball so Yewtah can advance up the court, I'm throwing midcourt and he can give you the ball". Another way of nonverbally saying "Bad call"...



By the way, when the Yewts advanced to the Final Four the last decade, they lost early in the MWC tourney and it thought that they benefitted from the rest. With the heavy schedule, it is certainly going to drain this team (especially Jimmer) to win it. Jimmer seems to be more fatigued (and frustrated) than midway through the season when he was in his groove. Three garmes, (with two extremely physical games), in three nights, might be just wasted energy if you don't prevail. I wouldn't bother me to win the 1st game and play some of the starter sparingly the next one or two games. If energy is not preserved (especially Jimmer's), the NCAA seed may be worthless (in fact, embarrasing) if they show up like they did against the Yewts and New Mexico. Tired legs and fatigue, does not bring success. Not pleasant to lose at MWC tourney, but may the best if it preserves energy.... Any opinions?

SenorCougar wrote:
I watched on TV and couldn't see the whole event, but it appeared to me that after the referee made what Jimmer thought was a bad call (and he was probably right), instead of handing the ball to the referee, he would throw it to the referee at half court. Nice way to say, "Dude, you screwed up... Instead of giving you the ball so Yewtah can advance up the court, I'm throwing midcourt and he can give you the ball". Another way of nonverbally saying "Bad call"...



By the way, when the Yewts advanced to the Final Four the last decade, they lost early in the MWC tourney and it thought that they benefitted from the rest. With the heavy schedule, it is certainly going to drain this team (especially Jimmer) to win it. Jimmer seems to be more fatigued (and frustrated) than midway through the season when he was in his groove. Three garmes, (with two extremely physical games), in three nights, might be just wasted energy if you don't prevail. I wouldn't bother me to win the 1st game and play some of the starter sparingly the next one or two games. If energy is not preserved (especially Jimmer's), the NCAA seed may be worthless (in fact, embarrasing) if they show up like they did against the Yewts and New Mexico. Tired legs and fatigue, does not bring success. Not pleasant to lose at MWC tourney, but may the best if it preserves energy.... Any opinions?

Senor Coug-



Yes and no.



Specifically: BYU needs to do absolutely everything in their power to win all games from here on out, and the tourney. If they do that, they have a legitimate claim to a #2 seed. If they have a #2 seed, the best team they would play is like 5th runner up in C-USA. They could almost win that game not playing their starters. The 2nd round they would play a team NO BETTER (and quite possibly worse) than the UNLV's of this year.



Meaning, if they get a 2 seed, they won't/shouldn't be challenged until Sweet 16, and only remotely then. There is a reason that the Finals are almost always comprised of 1,2,3, and 4 seeds. The tourney is completely stacked in their favor.



IMO you do EVERYTHING possible to win out, win the tourney, and get Jimmer POY honors - including overplaying our guys (though best case scenario you don't have to)



Jimmer getting POY honors, and us going 3 deep into the tourney would drastically improve our program overnight! So much so, that we would still be seeing results from it 10-15 years down the line.



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I agree with trying to win as many games as you can for the seeding and I don't think that Jimmer is any more tired than others in the league that are playing significant minutes for their teams.

While winning the #2 seed is certainly desirable, I still question seed vs energy. Jimmer was scoring 35+ points per game several weeks ago, and now is down to the 20's. I understand that he now has a "target" on his back and that he is getting double or triple teamed. When I saw his face in the Wyoming game, he was totally winded. His shots were coming up short. Rose took him out, and he came right in and scored a two point goal and a three point goal, if I recall correctly. NCAA two seeds get beat (remember Weber State years ago taking out a two seed (North Carolina?). After the SDSU game, it became apparent to me that Jimmer is clutch under pressure and Davies a little bit, but nobody else stepped up offensively. If the players felt the pressure of that game, the NCAA is an entirely different level. A tired Jimmer can't carry the team alone in the NCAA tournament. A rested Jimmer can carry a heavy load. I'm just not convinced that the prudent thing to do is seek a two seed AT ALL COSTS. And those 15th seeded teams are not pushovers. BYU tied with Yewtah 48-48 with under 10 minutes left in the game (at home)? No matter how you slice it, a 15 seed team will be MuCH better than the Yewts, who were on a 4 game losing streak. Jimmer is already too spent. Even Rose referred to the needed week off. I just don't see two of three hard core MWC tournament teams in three days and then playing again on Thursday and Saturday in the NCAA. I hope I'm wrong, but if you're going to advance in the NCAA tournament, you are going to have to beat GOOD teams. Without a typical Jimmer performance, that will be hard to do. Rose is going to have to be a master of minute distribution, time outs, and offensive plays that passes the physical beating to the screeners, rather than to Jimmer. Good Luck Cougs.... Hopefully we win both the battle and the war, not the win battle (MWC) and then lose the war (NCAA).

I think tournament week is when you worry about getting rest.

These are 20 year old kids. Do you remember what it was like to be 20? Going full steam on 4 hrs of sleep the night before, etc etc.



I would be more worried about Jimmer's mental makeup, then his physical. Meaning, I am more worried about him taking foul after foul after foul getting no calls, than I am him playing 40 mins a game.



I seriously doubt that a 15 seed is going to give us a better game than a rivalry game vs Utah.



The current 15 seeds as of yesterday are: Florida Atlantic, Long Beach State, Kent State, and the Vermont Catamounts (you know, the team we beat by 30...)



No question in my mind that Utah played us closer at our house than any of these guys could.



And as a 2 seed, the VERY BEST team (so no upsets the first round) you would play in round two is a #7 seed. So that would be today's Tennessee, Washington, Temple, and St. Mary's.



One of these teams we already beat early in the season, the others we would have to play a decent game, but if we played 60% of what our best game has been this year, we would still probably win.

Back to the original topic, err, whatever. I think its pretty ridiculous for an official to tell a coach to take a specific player out of the game. Saying "Coach, your team's getting out of hand" or "please control your players" is one thing, but "Take (insert player name) out," crosses the line.

Let's say we lose the tourney for fear of our starters being tired. That guarantees us no higher than a 3 seed, and maybe a 4 seed.



As a 3 we would be playing Princeton Tigers, Bucknell, Charleston or Fairfield. Still not murderers row, but a little better competition. If/when we win that we would play a 6 seed (w no upsets) and they are currently: Vanderbuilt, West Virginia, Missouri or Illinois... That is instantly increased compeition.



As a 4 seed, (if we lose the tourney and/or SDSU I think we land here or no higher) we would play UTEP, Oakland, Valparaiso, and Coastal Carolina. Not tough again, but maybe the chance to rest is even less... Then we would play a 5 seed w no upsets, and that is currently Louisville, Texas A & M, Arizona, and North Carolina. So much better competition, and possibly a round we don't walk away from.



Let's say we lose to SDSU, and drop the tourney. Jimmer doesn't get POY honors... As a 5 seed we play Missouri State, Michigan State, Belmont and Alabama. We possibly don't get through either "States" with a subpar game, plus I don't think we rest our starters... If/when we win, we would play a 5 seed, who is Kentucky - Florida - Syracuse and Connecticut. And remember, they will be rested, and we probably won't be. I don't think we make it out of that round, and if we do - at what cost to our guys?



We are currently listed as a 2 seed. If we win out, we keep that, and if a few people lose, maybe we get a one. I could keep going, but I think we all get the point.



There is no argument to be made as to any advantage of getting a lower seed. Period. Anything short of breaking any of our players' legs has to be done to secure a higher seed.

For a 20 year old, Jimmer sure is breathing hard at timeouts and his production has dropped. Granted teams key on him, but they have since the first of the year. He even shot an unheard of airball on Saturday with an open shot. Go ahead, play him all 40 minutes three consecutive nights. Then rest 5days tops until Thursday. Play again Saturday against increased competition. Don't underestimate the heart of a #15 seed. It's happened before and I still think that Yewtah with Doleac, Andre Miller, and a young Britton Johnson benefitted from an early exit. And Majerus said that in the title game, he had a dilemma. He needed to play Miller and Doleac more to win, but they were spent. If he rested them, Kentucky (?) would pull away. If he played them the full 40 minutes, they were losing their legs and strength. They lost. Depth played a big part of that game, and Majerus played the cards he had. Only time will tell ........

I haven't seen this mentioned but I assume it comes into play a bit. It seems like production always goes down a bit on the 2nd half of the conference season. You become more familiar with the opponent and their different plays. I guess I put a little more weight in tougher defense because of familiarity of teams.