UH's recruiting Problem = Mainland (PAC 10) Opportunity

Colorado Scores Big in Hawaii's Top 10



http://www.staradvertiser.com/sports" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;





The University of Hawaii has a recruiting problem. This happens both for academics and for athletics. They lose most of the very best local talent to the mainland. Academically speaking, it often goes to the East Coast and especially to Boston schools although other places are popular like UW, for instance.



Athletically, it once was dominated by BYU and others. New contenders are establishing success, but others come and go.



The Honoulu Star Bulletin published an article stating where the top 10 prospects in Hawaii went and another article stating who UH got. The Top 10 went mostly out of state, and therefore UH mostly imported players from out of state including one highly touted player who got in trouble elsewhere and after a year at a JC is getting a 2nd chance - i.e. not HC material. UH loaded up on wide receivers and DBs.



I feel sorry for UH - the details of the who they got were buried on page 5 and the details of where the Top 10 went were on the cover page.



Some have posted that BYU does not need Kahuku. I don't agree. Maybe not this year - Kahuku had a light crop. In fact Hawaii had a light crop. Maybe that is why the BYU talent pool lacked headliners - the Hawaii contribution to that pool was light this year.



Details only for those with interest - others can just skip to the next post.



Saint Louis High produced #1, 3, 4, and 6 this year. Kamehameha School produced #2. Punahou School produced #5, a linebacker. Kahuku High school produced #7 and #8 in an off year for them. They had a star LDS player commit suicide after the season ended. A technical error around a seldom used athlete's eligibility caused them to be excluded from the State Championship Game and a lawsuit to quickly reinstate them failed. Just an off year for Kahuku.



Most of the Polynesian Pipeline coming from Hawaii comes from Oahu. That is because most of the people in Hawaii live on Oahu. The football mills, in order of typical production (of HC compatible D1 players)are probably:



Kahuku High School - North Shore - Public School right near the LDS Church run Polynesian Culltural Center in La'ie where BYU Hawaii and the LDS Temple are located - i.e. nearly as LDS as Provo.

Kahuku - I listed Kahuku again just because they are so LDS intensive and so isolated from most of the jobs and businesses on Oahu. They are almost an island on an island due to limited roads and distance. Football is life at Kahuku for the entire community.

Kahuku - I listed Kahuku a 3rd time - because it includes La'ie and those two neighboring communities isolated at the north end of Oahu, often produce athletes that either commute or have their families relocate so that they can attend the much stronger academic institutions - usually private schools - like Punahou, Iolani, and others if they can afford to do so or if they get a scholarship. I believe Manti Teo did this. In other words, the Kahuku contribution is greater than the already incredible amount that graduates from Kahuku High School.

Kahuku - I list Kahuku one more time because it seems that everyone in Hawaii is related and if you burn someone in Kahuku, they will have a cousin in Kailua, Kaneohe, Hawaii Kai, Kahala, or on West Oahu - count on it. Everyone in Hawaii is called Auntie or Uncle by many of the the Keiki (Children) - even me.



Saint Louis School - Private Catholic school - Oahu - Honlolulu area - known for football wrestling, etc - has a high % of Polynesian students. Perennial football powerhouse.



Kamehameha Schools - Oahu - Honolulu area - Private school. You must have some native Hawaiian blood to get accepted and must meet certain academic criteria. If you get in, it is a private school education with basically zero cost. They have near college level facilities due to the money from the trust fund established to fund this school and give something back to the native Hawaiian people who had much taken from them by early missionaries and settlers.



Punahou School - most prestigious private school in Hawaii and possibly the largest one in the country. Obama, Chow, and Manti Teo went here.



Others are sporadic in production at best. Many of the schools near Honolulu or east Oahu are very highly Asian and produce few football players. Waianae is a public school that will show up on occasion. NormChow coached there 35 or 40 years ago. Kaimuki - near my house - produced #9 on the Top 10 list this year but would rarely show up. Iolani is the #2 private school academically in the state, and will show up on occasion.



The Big winners (PAC 10 took 7 of the Top 10) were Oregon who got #1 and #2 and Colorado, a new comer and late entrant to the party, who got #3, 4, and 5 even though their coaching staff is new and only had two weeks of allowed player contact to make this late run. They stole one from UW due to pressure from his Saint Louis teammate who also chose Colorado, and due to Colorado having two Polynesian coaches recruiting in Hawaii. One of the Colorado recruiters is named Tuiasosopo - I don't know if he is the former BYU player or another of that same name. Oregon State got #6. The Univeristy of Hawaii was able to cling on to #7 and #8, both from Kahuku. Washington State got #9 from the public school near me (a rare contribution from this mostly Asian school). Utah state got #10 from a school I am not familiar with - possibly a neighbor island school. Utah got zip and UW lost the one they thought they had in the bag to Colorado (O/L named Asiata - the one who's friend talked him into Colorado instead of UW).



I would love to see BYU renergize its recruiting in Hawaii even though I do realize that there are a few Polynesians living on the mainalnd too.

You do realize that BYU has a Poly connection instate now, right? and that those schools are putting off more D-1 talent than Hawaii? Between Bingham and Timpview, BYU loads up on solid locals who are easier to recruit and have less island issues. Would love to have got Te'o, Schwenke and Jamora, but at the end of hte day, BYU did not lose them as much as the kids chose to bail on BYU. And that is the island dilemma. Island kids do not want to be held to the HC. Until that changes, recruiting will not either.

Lawboy wrote:
You do realize that BYU has a Poly connection instate now, right? and that those schools are putting off more D-1 talent than Hawaii? Between Bingham and Timpview, BYU loads up on solid locals who are easier to recruit and have less island issues. Would love to have got Te'o, Schwenke and Jamora, but at the end of hte day, BYU did not lose them as much as the kids chose to bail on BYU. And that is the island dilemma. Island kids do not want to be held to the HC. Until that changes, recruiting will not either.

That is a sweeping generalization about the morals of every Polynesian in Hawaii. Do you know the three players you just named well enough to know that HC was in issue for all three? I recognize that something went on with Teo when he visited and his cousin has documented alcohol useage while at BYU. The other Teo that left - I never saw anything of the sort for him. I have near no documentation of those kind of problems with Schwenke or Jamora. I don't know those boys. I am not saying they are HC compatible or that they are not. Do you really know or is this just a way to rationalize BYU's recruiting failures in Hawaii as of late.



BYU has had two Polynesian players from Hawaii very recently that I know personally. No HC issues there. Their families are the salt of the earth. They are related to the Kahuku families. They are not all good and they are not all bad.



Bottom line - the PAC 10 has figured out the formula to recruit these kids. I was glad to see that Notre Dame was absent from the picture this year. There are two safeties on that list. And if the QB that Oregon snagged #1 on the list is as good as some other Saint Louis QBs have been - well that could have been someone in the pipeline for when all 4 of our current QBs are gone almost all at once.



I am not suggesting that we would have wanted all 10 of these guys. Maybe there is one or two in there, though, that would have strengthened our class and been as willing to obey the HC as the ones we got.

I do know that Jamoura and Kona are not HC problems. I kinda hope they serve missions so they can reflect on their futures (funny how missions do that). This is a kind of slow year which is odd because this was one of the most dominant years for Kahuku. They didn't lose a game and had an outstanding defense. Hill and the LB were pretty tough players and come from pretty athletic families. I knew Tigi's dad and he was the meanest and toughest kid I ever knew. He wasn't the biggest but he wouldn't have backed down from anyone. I'm hoping his cousin continues to shine there. I think he (Ku-J Tapusoa) has the potential to make people forget about Manti. He started as a soph at OLB which is pretty impressive at Kahuku considering the talent they have every year. I know the family very well and he will not have any problems with the HC. I also know that he loves Doman and Bronco and would go to Shilo's home everytime they (Bronco and/or Doman) came for a visit.

All I can say is that the off field issues BYU has had the last 3-4 years have either come from non-LDS kids, or island kids, whether on a recruit trip, whether a player DUI or 2, or whether it was a kid or two or more who bailed on their verbal commits.



I am hoping Graham Rowley reverses the trend. BYU has not had many key contributors from the island is quite while.

Lawboy wrote:
All I can say is that the off field issues BYU has had the last 3-4 years have either come from non-LDS kids, or island kids, whether on a recruit trip, whether a player DUI or 2, or whether it was a kid or two or more who bailed on their verbal commits.



I am hoping Graham Rowley reverses the trend. BYU has not had many key contributors from the island is quite while.

From the horses mouth (someone who was at the party), it wasn't just island kids. It just so happened that one of the island kids was a HUGE recruit and so he got the publicity.

Looking at this list of the top 10 recruits from Hawaii, it's obvious Hawaii had a really down year. If the 3rd best recruit is going to Colorado, BYU isn't in the business of stooping down to the level of Colorado talent. And the 10th best goes to Utah State? Clearly not even worth talking about.

hawkwing wrote:
Looking at this list of the top 10 recruits from Hawaii, it's obvious Hawaii had a really down year. If the 3rd best recruit is going to Colorado, BYU isn't in the business of stooping down to the level of Colorado talent. And the 10th best goes to Utah State? Clearly not even worth talking about.

Keeping in top of mind, the fact that I have long agreed and again agreed in this thread that this is a solid but small BYU class - your response above seems like an oversimplification and seems a bit defensive of the BYU class.



The OP and attached article both stated that UH had an off year in the talent pool. No disagreement there. I would not call it a really down year - if that means bereft of even 1 candidate worthy of BYU's attention and pursuit.



Oregon took #1 and #2. Oregon played for the NC in 2010. They do not seem desperate. They had a highly rated class. It would seem that at least two of these candidates are worth talking about.



It might seem easy to dismiss Colorado for their mediocrity. Does that mean that they have never had 1 recruit that might be beneficial to BYU? Does it mean that the new Colorado coaching staff that scrambled in two weeks of player contact to grab 3 candidates at the last minute might not have a story that played well with the switch in conference afiliation to the PAC 10 which clearly is more geographically and otherwise favored by island athletes and a new staff with two Poly recruiters might have made inroads. What about next year. Could this be a dangerous inroad being established by yet another PAC 10 or BCS school. Is it possible that the recruit they stole from UW that UW fought for as hard as they fought for Jamora last year might be as good as Jamora. UW hated losing him. And he went with a teammate to Colorado.



Oregon State is no slouch. Are you totally confident that the player they took is completely beneath BYU?



I see some disturbing trends in BYU recruiting and I truly hope that the new coaches turn it around. Nobody seems to want to talk about it.



U of Utah - in the past the U has not taken many Utah athletes. I know at least one Utah alum, season ticket holder, who has felt in the past that it was arrogance on Utah's part that the local's were not good enough for them. idk. In some cases, I think Utah had just surrendered that turf to BYU - for LDS athletes particularly and felt they could not compete. idk. This year, Utah recruited heavily in Utah as it saw "more competitive" recruiting as it moves to the PAC 10. At least two of those candidates were listed in the Tribune as having turned down BYU offers. Utah indicated that they will be recruiting the state of Utah hard in the future. Maybe that could futher erode Bingham High where Utah took the #1 rated candidate from that program. Yes we got several others from Bingham. And that concerns me - so many eggs in one basket. Is it possible in a loaded program like Bingham that the team as a whole is so overwhelming to opponents, that some of the players look better than they would look on a less loaded team where opponents could double team them? Just a little concerned. Not panicked. I am not suggesting that Utah took more local players from us than we took from them. I am just concerned that we have totally owned Utah in the past and may have lost a little of that edge with the Utes moving to the PAC. Maybe Hawaii does matter.



Hawaii. It isn't just 2011. 2010 was pretty loaded. We did not do well. ND, UW beat us out for players we wanted and thought we had in the bag. I did not see the Top 10 list last year to see who else landed top talent. And yes, they are not all LDS / HC compatible. In 2009 - we missed out on a 5* - Manti Teo. Later we lost two other Teos from the team. The Teo fiasco may have been totally unavoidable and maybe at least two of them just do not fit BYU. But then we have a linebacker from Reno Nevada that we are perfectly OK with having redemption take its course.



If all we lost was a Teo or two or three and Langi in Utah and Hawaii - I would not be at all concerned. we have alwasy lost a few. It just seems that it slipped a bit further in Utah this year and has totally slipped in Hawaii over the past three years.



Some have posted that star ratings do not mean much. Bronco does not bank on them. I agree that they are not guarantees. I just think if you recruit five players with 5 stars a piece and five with 2 stars a piece - you will on average come out better with the first five.



We do pretty well with occasional 2 stars or no stars that overachieve. Those are my favorite players. But, count the first round draft picks we have sent to the NFL in the past decade. We are not at that level - all "stars" or "lack of stars" aside. So this class is solid, it is very similar to our typical classes in ranking, and it is not a "take us to the next level" class like 2010 was for us. But keep in mind, 2010 was only about a Top 30 class.



So the erosion this year by Utah, the 3 year virtual drought in Hawaii, the lack of ***** almost evey year, and the sparceness of **** do cause me concern, if for no other reason, our schedule last year, this year, and probably in the future is going to be more demanding and we will need better players just to get back to 11-2 seasons. I am just fine with 11-2 seasons. It keeps us in the discussion and who knows one of those years - maybe we win eem all. I am OK with a bad season - if that means 7 wins and a Bowl victory - every 5 years when we have a complete reload on both sides of the ball. So 52-12 or so over 5 years - sign me up. We will need better players to maintain that with the road schedules being signed for the future.



Our new recruiting coordinator said it best when he said that in his new role he needs to help BYU recruit "better players". The talent pool for us has some limitations - significant ones, that is why I hate to see ay of us so easily dismiss Hawaii players, Langi, and others that we missed. If they are LDS, HC compatible, we cannot afford to miss one and the bright lights of the PAC 10, ND and others are starting to take a little bit bigger toll in that regard in two key states - Utah and Hawaii.

Your concerns are unwarranted. Maybe they'd be more warranted if you were a fan of another school, but recruiting at BYU is vastly different at BYU than any other school in the NCAA.



I didn't read your entire post, it was simply too long.



Lawboy said it best when he said there are typically better poly recruits in Utah now than the islands most years.

hawkwing wrote:
Your concerns are unwarranted. Maybe they'd be more warranted if you were a fan of another school, but recruiting at BYU is vastly different at BYU than any other school in the NCAA.



I didn't read your entire post, it was simply too long.



Lawboy said it best when he said there are typically better poly recruits in Utah now than the islands most years.

I pointed out to LawBoy that U of Utah had vastly increased success in Utah this year and KWhitt indicated that U will focus on in-state recruiting more in the future.



I asked you if the 2 Hawaii recruits that went to Oregon who just played for a NC, OSU, and the one Colorado stole from UW might indicate that even in an off year - there might have still been one or two in there worth fighting for - like Jamora or Schwenke level. Not instead of Utah Polys - but in addition to.



Made some other points in there too - but those were most pertinent to your comment.

BYU will almost always win the in-state recruiting battle for kids they want. That being said, there are a lot of talented kids in Utah that are not HC kids. Utah will pick these kids up.



As for the Hawaii kids there is a possibility that 1 or 2 of the top 3 would have been athletically gifted enough to play at BYU, but the fact that none of them were recruited by BYU says to me that the staff didn't feel they were suited to be at BYU.



As I've said a million times to you, and you've never been able to accept is that recruiting at BYU is completely different than any other school. When you begin to understand that difference hopefully you'll be better able to follow my points.

I think people ignore the HC far too often as both a help and a hindrance to BYU athletics ability to achieve. While it helps BYU get the top LDS talent in most cases, it hinders BYU from getting the top non-LDS talent in most cases.



The Shilah Te'o and Manti Te'o issues, along with how Schwenke and Jamora treated BYU are having an affect on island recruiting. With good reason. Maybe next year will be better. Depends on the kids. BYU will approach them the same.

hawkwing wrote:
BYU will almost always win the in-state recruiting battle for kids they want. That being said, there are a lot of talented kids in Utah that are not HC kids. Utah will pick these kids up.



As for the Hawaii kids there is a possibility that 1 or 2 of the top 3 would have been athletically gifted enough to play at BYU, but the fact that none of them were recruited by BYU says to me that the staff didn't feel they were suited to be at BYU.



As I've said a million times to you, and you've never been able to accept is that recruiting at BYU is completely different than any other school. When you begin to understand that difference hopefully you'll be better able to follow my points.

Which part of BYU recruiting do you think I don't understand.



This is what I do understand about the advantages and disadvantages of BYU recruiting.

Many LDS kids will not live the HC. Some will come anyway and likely go up in flames and others will make excuses and go elsewhere.



Active LDS parents generally prefer their kids to go to BYU over just about anyplace on the planet except for a minority that place the prestige of a degree from USC, Stanford, Duke, etc over the special environment BYU and only BYU can offer or clearly NFL bound athletes that see better exposure and competition in BCS conferences. That is what Independence enabled exposure is supposed to help us solve.



Some non-lds students and their parents will want to be at BYU because of the values the school encourages and enforces and thus overcome worries about their kid getting converted to the LDS Church or not fitting in. Others, including especially in-state non-LDS develop a strong anti- LDS bias and will not come.



There are far more LDS people in the West, especially un Utah, So. Idaho, No Arizona, and California than in the South or the East.



The LDS Church has shown special interest in the Polynesian peoples and those peoples have come to the US - especially in the West and are closely knit.



There are hardly any African American members of the Church.



All of this makes it a challenge to get enough blazing fast RBs and DBs and WRs.



So we need to leave no stone unturned looking for those.



Did I miss anything critical?



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">