Kyle Collinsworth

Someone in my ward is a former assistant basketball coach at Provo High and he said two things to me recently about Kyle Collinsworth:



1) He was under the impression that Kyle is not planning on serving a mission - my impression from reading this board is that he is going...



2) He had a very good jump shot in high school - why is his jump shot and free throw so horrible right now??



That's it.

He had a good jump shot?



We'll see about a mission. It's amazing what a freshman year at BYU can do as far as motivating someone to go on a mission.



I think KC suffers a bit from his own ego. Rather than be content with stopping and popping up for the jump shot he'd rather try to take it to the lane and attempt some Jordon-esque move. He needs to realize points are points and points from a "boring" jump shot are better than a layup miss or swat (he got swatted like three times against UNLV). His future is at shooting guard, so he better get to shooting.



A classic example of the smart thing to do was Emery pulling up for the 8 footer on the fast break last night. Rather than risk splitting two defenders and take it to the rim, Emery hit a wide open jumper, 2pts on the stat sheet.



Honestly, I think the kid is overrated. Haws is much better. Not saying KC isn't a good player or doesn't have the potential to be one, just not impressed with him based on the hype.

Gunk wrote:
Honestly, I think the kid is overrated. Haws is much better. Not saying KC isn't a good player or doesn't have the potential to be one, just not impressed with him based on the hype.

So far I'd have to agree with you. Tyler was much more of a force on the team at this juncture last season.

Haws may have been a little better offensively but KC's defense is FAR superior in my opinion. KC's rebounding is awesome as well. Not sure how many RPG's Haws had last year but I'll bet KC is his equal or better and KC's scoring is probably not that far behind Haws. Our defense seems to be much improved this year and I contribute that to the replacement of JT with Hartsock/CC and the addition of KC at the 3. Defense/Rebounding wins championships

Haws is certainly a better shooter but for BYU's purposes, KC is a much better asset. Last year we had lacked size and those who were big couldn't rebound or contest shots. KC plays good D, gets swats, and most importantly gets big rebounds. We need this kind of player way more than we need Haws' jumpshots to go deep in the tourney.

I've had some experiences with him and

1. I doubt he goes on a mission.

2. He is a really physically gifted. Long, strong, athletic, smart ....

3. He thinks he is the Shiiiiiiiii+++++

4. He will be a very good player for us, I think he is still just feeling things out.

5. His shot looks horrible, always thought it looked horrible. Its a lot easier shooting over 6 " high school kids than athletic long 6'6" men. Possibly why he is not shooting as well as some expected.

Kyle Collinsworth current season vs Tyler Haws last season comparison:



Stat: Kyle - Tyler

Min/gm: 24.5 - 26.4

pts/gm: 6.4 - 11.3

Reb/gm: 3.1 - 4.2

ast/gm: 2.2 - 1.4

stl/gm: 1.0 - 0.7

to/gm: 1.6 - 1.2



So they both played the same number of minutes per game, Tyler outscores Kyle 2:1 and out-rebounds him. Whereas Kyle out-dimes Tyler, out-steals him, and commits fewer turnovers. I think I remember Tyler being more impressive because of the scoring, but looking at their individual stat lines as a whole it's hard to choose a clear winner.

BerliNY wrote:
Kyle Collinsworth current season vs Tyler Haws last season comparison:



Stat: Kyle - Tyler

Min/gm: 24.5 - 26.4

pts/gm: 6.4 - 11.3

Reb/gm: 3.1 - 4.2

ast/gm: 2.2 - 1.4

stl/gm: 1.0 - 0.7

to/gm: 1.6 - 1.2



So they both played the same number of minutes per game, Tyler outscores Kyle 2:1 and out-rebounds him. Whereas Kyle out-dimes Tyler, out-steals him, and commits fewer turnovers. I think I remember Tyler being more impressive because of the scoring, but looking at their individual stat lines as a whole it's hard to choose a clear winner.

Actually Tyler commits fewer turnovers according to these stats. Kyle does give 1 more assist per game and one more steal per 3 games.

I don't believe either Collinsworth had a good jump shot in high school; they shot outside when they had a no brainer wide open shot. but they usually pounded it in side on the drive.

Provo was not very good woth Kyle as a senior without Davies or his brother, because other teams would hold the ball for ridiculous amounts of time (no shot clock in high school) and then force KC and his teammates to shoot.



KC is the type of player that gets better with a better team though, because he can handle the ball, dsitribute and play tough solid defense. When you add a seasoned and healhy Chris, DeMarcus Harrison and (please please please) a confident Abouo as a senior, Kyle will be very dangerous distributing on the break.



Unless they drop Winder, Martineau, or Anderson ... there isn't a scholarship for KC next season.



KC has told the media that he plans on a mission... if he doesn't, then for continuity sake, I like it. We need a star next season, he could be it, and I'm sure for him it would be fun to play with his brother for another 2 years.



I'm betting on a mission though, unless he's paranoid about the shape of his brother right now post-mission.



btw - did we just dominate UNLV without Chris? :)

Gunk wrote:

Rather than risk splitting two defenders and take it to the rim, Emery hit a wide open jumper, 2pts on the stat sheet.

Right, why split two defenders when you can be like Jimmer and split 3 or 4?... :D

craigoscarson wrote:
I don't believe either Collinsworth had a good jump shot in high school; they shot outside when they had a no brainer wide open shot. but they usually pounded it in side on the drive.

Provo was not very good woth Kyle as a senior without Davies or his brother, because other teams would hold the ball for ridiculous amounts of time (no shot clock in high school) and then force KC and his teammates to shoot.



KC is the type of player that gets better with a better team though, because he can handle the ball, dsitribute and play tough solid defense. When you add a seasoned and healhy Chris, DeMarcus Harrison and (please please please) a confident Abouo as a senior, Kyle will be very dangerous distributing on the break.



Unless they drop Winder, Martineau, or Anderson ... there isn't a scholarship for KC next season.



KC has told the media that he plans on a mission... if he doesn't, then for continuity sake, I like it. We need a star next season, he could be it, and I'm sure for him it would be fun to play with his brother for another 2 years.



I'm betting on a mission though, unless he's paranoid about the shape of his brother right now post-mission.



btw - did we just dominate UNLV without Chris? :)

Not sure if I agree with you on handling the ball, unless handling encompasses passes and holding onto it. If by handling you mean just dribbling and moving with the ball then I'm not sold on his ball handling skills, especially when doubled. Against UNLV there were a couple of times when he put it on the floor that made me cringe.



Great passer, though. And he's great at keeping a tight hold on the ball and moving down the court in transition.

I was really impressed by Kyle's overall game against UNLV. He was doing so many things that don't get on a stat sheet. The way he helped spread the floor on offense and he is totally a garbage getter. I love his hustle and he seems to play a very unselfish game IMO... 8)

Kbear wrote:
I was really impressed by Kyle's overall game against UNLV. He was doing so many things that don't get on a stat sheet. The way he helped spread the floor on offense and he is totally a garbage getter. I love his hustle and he seems to play a very unselfish game IMO... 8)

I thought Kyle struggled with UNLV's pressure.

kitic77 wrote:

I was really impressed by Kyle's overall game against UNLV. He was doing so many things that don't get on a stat sheet. The way he helped spread the floor on offense and he is totally a garbage getter. I love his hustle and he seems to play a very unselfish game IMO... 8)

I thought Kyle struggled with UNLV's pressure.

Agree. But he is a true freshman and may improve quickly.



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Gunk wrote:

I don't believe either Collinsworth had a good jump shot in high school; they shot outside when they had a no brainer wide open shot. but they usually pounded it in side on the drive.

Provo was not very good woth Kyle as a senior without Davies or his brother, because other teams would hold the ball for ridiculous amounts of time (no shot clock in high school) and then force KC and his teammates to shoot.



KC is the type of player that gets better with a better team though, because he can handle the ball, dsitribute and play tough solid defense. When you add a seasoned and healhy Chris, DeMarcus Harrison and (please please please) a confident Abouo as a senior, Kyle will be very dangerous distributing on the break.



Unless they drop Winder, Martineau, or Anderson ... there isn't a scholarship for KC next season.



KC has told the media that he plans on a mission... if he doesn't, then for continuity sake, I like it. We need a star next season, he could be it, and I'm sure for him it would be fun to play with his brother for another 2 years.



I'm betting on a mission though, unless he's paranoid about the shape of his brother right now post-mission.



btw - did we just dominate UNLV without Chris? :)

Not sure if I agree with you on handling the ball, unless handling encompasses passes and holding onto it. If by handling you mean just dribbling and moving with the ball then I'm not sold on his ball handling skills, especially when doubled. Against UNLV there were a couple of times when he put it on the floor that made me cringe.



Great passer, though. And he's great at keeping a tight hold on the ball and moving down the court in transition.

Just like I promised a few years ago about Hartsock being a player that is always in the right spot and rarely, if ever make mistakes; I'll make you a promise you about Collinsworth. By the time he's a senior, you'll be bragging to America about the kid with the golden handles. Kyle is very adept at handling the ball; he's just not adept at being a college freshman at the highest level, yet.



The reason that Haws and Jimmer contributed just a bit more as freshmen was because they could shoot. Kyles game needs refining and his shooting is average at best, but other portions of his game are very very mature including his ball handling.



I spoke to Mekeli Wesley and Jeremiah Hartsock this summer about Kyle and they both told me that he plays like a seasoned college player... the difference though, is in summer ball they don't call but the hardest fouls and there's a lot more running and passing. Kyle excells in the tough mans game and can push the ball as well as any 6'6" + guy in the country. (He could just as easily play in the Big east with his style)



There will be a point in Kyles career when the light turns on and he'll never look back, I assure you. He's "Jimmers shooting ability" (which he'll never have) from being the next Ainge. Jimmer will never defend or create the mismatches that Ainge created in the game, and if Kyle develops even a semblance of a defendable J... he's going to be scary AND better than Tyler Haws (who's dad I worship and who's shooting ability and ice cold demeanor I admire.. Tyler is the ice man)... yet still Kyle has more upside.

craigoscarson wrote:
I spoke to Mekeli Wesley and Jeremiah Hartsock this summer about Kyle and they both told me that he plays like a seasoned college player... the difference though, is in summer ball they don't call but the hardest fouls and there's a lot more running and passing. Kyle excells in the tough mans game and can push the ball as well as any 6'6" + guy in the country. (He could just as easily play in the Big east with his style)

He certainly didn't look like a seasoned player against UNLV. He looked overwhelmed in spots and tried to do somethings that he shouldn't. He had some inopportune turnovers. He'll do better in the future and learn to call timeouts instead of forcing a pass when trapped.

kitic77 wrote:

I spoke to Mekeli Wesley and Jeremiah Hartsock this summer about Kyle and they both told me that he plays like a seasoned college player... the difference though, is in summer ball they don't call but the hardest fouls and there's a lot more running and passing. Kyle excells in the tough mans game and can push the ball as well as any 6'6" guy in the country. (He could just as easily play in the Big east with his style)

He certainly didn't look like a seasoned player against UNLV. He looked overwhelmed in spots and tried to do somethings that he shouldn't. He had some inopportune turnovers. He'll do better in the future and learn to call timeouts instead of forcing a pass when trapped.

He's also a freshman who has looked very seasoned for the most part this year. He's ahead of schedule and I agree that it's just a matter of time and he'll be a GREAT player instead of the "very good" player he is right now. I like KC's game more than Tyler's, but I think that Tyler was ahead of KC as far as overall progression at this point.

kitic77 wrote:

I spoke to Mekeli Wesley and Jeremiah Hartsock this summer about Kyle and they both told me that he plays like a seasoned college player... the difference though, is in summer ball they don't call but the hardest fouls and there's a lot more running and passing. Kyle excells in the tough mans game and can push the ball as well as any 6'6" + guy in the country. (He could just as easily play in the Big east with his style)

He certainly didn't look like a seasoned player against UNLV. He looked overwhelmed in spots and tried to do somethings that he shouldn't. He had some inopportune turnovers. He'll do better in the future and learn to call timeouts instead of forcing a pass when trapped.

Jimmer looked worse as a freshman in many games.

http://espn.go.com/ncb/player/gamelog?playerId=36409&year=2008" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



^Jimmers freshman year



http://espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=51670" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



^Kyles freshman year

kitic77 wrote:

I spoke to Mekeli Wesley and Jeremiah Hartsock this summer about Kyle and they both told me that he plays like a seasoned college player... the difference though, is in summer ball they don't call but the hardest fouls and there's a lot more running and passing. Kyle excells in the tough mans game and can push the ball as well as any 6'6" + guy in the country. (He could just as easily play in the Big east with his style)

He certainly didn't look like a seasoned player against UNLV. He looked overwhelmed in spots and tried to do somethings that he shouldn't. He had some inopportune turnovers. He'll do better in the future and learn to call timeouts instead of forcing a pass when trapped.

UNLV was KC's first legit big-time road game. UCLA, I guess kinda counts, but the atmosphere at UNLV is still on a different level. I think he got caught in the headlights a bit. He looked frazzled at times and at others tried to do too much. Like I said earlier, he needs to learn to just pull up for the jumper rather than try and windmill his way to the rim.



I hope you're right craigo and certainly see the potential. I certainly do think KC is more disruptive on D than Haws was even though it may not show up on the stat sheet.



At the end of the day I guess I just like Abouo better at the 3.