Would Harvey have made a difference this past year?

This is something I have been wondering lately, how much did it hurt BYU this year when Harvey left?



The big talk has been the mismanagement of the QB situation with folks believing BYU's record could have been better if Heaps was named the starter for Fall ball, but regardless of that and if the season played out and was managed exactly as it was using the 2 QB system etc, would Harvey have made that much of a difference?



I would go on record saying he probably would not have. I think the running backs this year did a fantastic job with JJ taking over the role Harvey would have played. He was not only the leading rusher, but also the leading receiver, as far as number of catches, on the team. Then add both Q and Kariya and I think the running backs were just as solid as they were the previous year.



I think the only game Harvey may have made a difference would have been the Utah game especially the last 4 plays of the game where his power would have moved the pile a couple of yards and could have given BYU the win, but other than that I don't see any other games that may have had a different outcome.



What do you think?

i don't think he would have, last year we beat OU without him, so i don't think it made a huge difference

If I could go back a year (or whenever gestation began) and have him back for his senior year to play it out and see what happens I absolutely would. Less pressure on players/coaches having him back, who knows maybe they go ahead and start Heaps early on. One more back to pass to equals one less receiver/tight end to drop the ball in the first half of the year. This season wasn't successful overall so YES is my vote.

If Harvey was still around, I think Heaps would have redshirted and I think we would have gone two or three games better in the regular season (USU, AFA, and UofU) without the extra baggage that the 2 QB fiasco put on the team.



Disclaimer before anyone tries to make this into a Riley/Jake thread--I think we would have won those three games regardless of who was starting (Lark even) just as long as we weren't hamstrung in development by the 2QB debacle.

How about would Anae or Hill have made a difference if they were gone before this past year?

Harvey would have made a huge difference in the early games and BYU would have found it's offensive identify - play action pass off a strong running game before the season started.



I think our RBs eventually became a huge asset, but it took too long to get them to that point. The tough thing to measure was blocking in the early games. Reynolds had the flu and minor injuries VS AFA and FSU iirc, and fullback identity took awhile due to newness and Mendenhall injury. Center was new. BB was relatively new on OL. That showed early and maybe Harvey would or would not have helped overcome that.



Now - what if Unga had been here and someone thought outside the bun and Harvey lined up at fullback week 1 - better blocking? Better short passing production. Even better power running.



But if Unga got an injury before the season started again - like 2009 and NFL 2010 - no difference.



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snoscythe wrote:
If Harvey was still around, I think Heaps would have redshirted and I think we would have gone two or three games better in the regular season (USU, AFA, and UofU) without the extra baggage that the 2 QB fiasco put on the team.



Disclaimer before anyone tries to make this into a Riley/Jake thread--I think we would have won those three games regardless of who was starting (Lark even) just as long as we weren't hamstrung in development by the 2QB debacle.

Interesting comments her Sno. I too would have loved Heaps to redshirt this year, but I don't know if I share your optimism of the outcomes of the 3 games. The USU and AFA games were blown up by bad coaching decisions on both sides of the ball and those games were basically over at halftime. The only game I think it could have made an impact was Utah

blue42 wrote:

If Harvey was still around, I think Heaps would have redshirted and I think we would have gone two or three games better in the regular season (USU, AFA, and UofU) without the extra baggage that the 2 QB fiasco put on the team.



Disclaimer before anyone tries to make this into a Riley/Jake thread--I think we would have won those three games regardless of who was starting (Lark even) just as long as we weren't hamstrung in development by the 2QB debacle.

Interesting comments her Sno. I too would have loved Heaps to redshirt this year, but I don't know if I share your optimism of the outcomes of the 3 games. The USU and AFA games were blown up by bad coaching decisions on both sides of the ball and those games were basically over at halftime. The only game I think it could have made an impact was Utah

AFA was very good. But, I think BYU would have been running early and often at USU and that would have taken pressure off the QB.



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Absolutely he would have made a difference. The Oline would have been much more consistent knowing they had Harvey in the backfield. He also was very good at making the tough yards when needed most. As good as our backs turned out to be, it took until after the USU game for them to finally gel. Harvey also would have been a leader on offense that was sorely lacking among the upper classmen early this season. He could have yelled at the receivers and the oline to pull their act together.



We win against AFA and USU and likely :utard: with Harvey on board. Yet, I think his absence allowed the offense to go through some necessary growing pains that will pay dividends next season. No more taking winning for granted or relying on one or two players to get the job done. It's a team effort and everyone must do their part if they want great success.

I would have to say yes. Harvey would have provided that vocal leadership on and off the field we needed. i disagree with sno. i think harvey there makes the two qb system less likely and more likely that jake just gets the nod (while i can't say that with much confidence nonetheless). Having Harvey would have taken more pressure off of the young quarterback from the get go. They would have focused early on on running the ball more instead of realizing after a few losses that this was the direction they needed to go. So, I guess with the big assumption that it avoids the debacle that was the two qb system, I think Harvey would have made a difference. Even if the coaches still made that decision, his leadership would have been invaluable.



I think we would have won more games if Harvey came back.

We win more games, but we wouldn't have discovered the Beast that is Quezada and next year we'd have Phillips AND Quezada trying to beat out JJ and Kariya.



What a log jam of talent.

The only way I see Unga making a difference this year would be in leadership.



If he would have been able to provide the leadership necessary for BYU not to self destruct against Air Force when the QBs turned the ball over on successive series, then yes he would have made a difference.

Would BYU's all-time leading rusher have made a difference if he were back for his senior season?



Duh....



Just the mere fact that he is on the field -crutches or no - opens up the passing game.



And I agree with Sno, that Riley could have found wide open enough passes with the defense stacking against Unga (not against Riley himself, big difference), and game-calling against him. Redshirting Jake would have been awesome, and no qb2 would have been the difference of no less than 2 games this season, and maybe as many as 4 or 5. (Just because the fighting was going on the offensive side of the ball in qb2, doesn't mean it didn't spill over to the D side too.)



I also agree with J-lingo that if Riley doesn't get the nod, and "leadership and grit" become less of a commodity - because Harvey is there taking the hand-offs - then it gives them the option to go with Jake, also. They would have their pick of whomever performed better in spring and fall, period.



The bottom line, is that if he is back, qb2 doesn't happen. One way or the other. A RS Jake, or a full on Riley - we would still have won 2-3 games more. He meant that much to the team, and to opposing defensive gameplans.







- We won OU not because of offense, but because of defense. Unga out in that game could have been the difference maker against us, (Kariya had a few nice screen passes, but couldn't run the ball AT ALL, and Harvey would have gotten 3 where Kariya got stopped, 5 instead of 2, etc. etc.) but Clawson helped level the playing field just before half.

jonnylingo wrote:
I would have to say yes. Harvey would have provided that vocal leadership on and off the field we needed. i disagree with sno. i think harvey there makes the two qb system less likely and more likely that jake just gets the nod (while i can't say that with much confidence nonetheless). Having Harvey would have taken more pressure off of the young quarterback from the get go. They would have focused early on on running the ball more instead of realizing after a few losses that this was the direction they needed to go. So, I guess with the big assumption that it avoids the debacle that was the two qb system, I think Harvey would have made a difference. Even if the coaches still made that decision, his leadership would have been invaluable.



I think we would have won more games if Harvey came back.

10!! And I believe he wouldve had Jake's back moreso than anyone else did this season. He would have run over and helped jake up after getting tackled, when the Olinemen were still protesting the whole offensive scheme. Yep, I still see indifference and apathy in some of the players in games 3-5.

reynolds captain leadership was severaly lacking and no one else was stepping up. Harv would have unified this offense--regardless of who was qb

BlueIsBetter wrote:
Would BYU's all-time leading rusher have made a difference if he were back for his senior season?



Duh....



Just the mere fact that he is on the field -crutches or no - opens up the passing game.



And I agree with Sno, that Riley could have found wide open enough passes with the defense stacking against Unga (not against Riley himself, big difference), and game-calling against him. Redshirting Jake would have been awesome, and no qb2 would have been the difference of no less than 2 games this season, and maybe as many as 4 or 5. (Just because the fighting was going on the offensive side of the ball in qb2, doesn't mean it didn't spill over to the D side too.)







- We won OU not because of offense, but because of defense. Unga out in that game could have been the difference maker against us, (Kariya had a few nice screen passes, but couldn't run the ball AT ALL, and Harvey would have gotten 3 where Kariya got stopped, 5 instead of 2, etc. etc.) but Clawson helped level the playing field just before half.

Good post. I agree.



I believe that if Unga had come back, it would have been a no brainer for the coaching staff to redshirt Heaps. The reason they didn't was because although the two (Nelson and Heaps) scored the same in spring and fall camp, it was Heaps potential that far out weighed Nelsons. With the addition of Unga, that potential wasn't necessary to tap into and Heaps could safely be given a year to develop his talent to the college game.

So how much of a "vocal" leader was Harvey? In the previous 3 years I didn't see much of him being very vocal so why would that change all of a sudden this year?



Granted I don't have any contacts inside the program and perhaps he was more vocal when outsiders weren't around, but I didn't see much of it. I know he is BYU's all time leading rusher but I think the RB's did a great job this year, even at the beginning of the year, during the first 5 games JJ was avg just under 6 yds a carry.



I guess most of you could be talking about the intangables that don't show up on the stats. I love Harvey and thought he was fun to watch, but I don't really know how much of a vocal leader he would have been.



Perhaps you are correct that there would have been more game planning to try to stop Harvey which could have opened the passing game a little more for Riley and Heaps, it would have been very interesting to see how it could have transpired.

And if. When. Nelson got injured - either Heaps comes off redshift or Lark takes it. What ifs are tough.



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Harvey didn't play defense so he certainly couldn't help all those scores against us. It's a no brainier though to ask if his skill wouldn't have helped on the offense, he would have been a second or third team All American this year. I disagree that he would have allowed Jake to be red shirted. Though it's easy to see in retrospect Jake needed a red shirt year I don't think he would have gone along with riding the pine for 3 years until it was his turn essentially prolonging the conflict for 3 years. I also think that even though Riley has a lot of heart and leadership skills he just doesn't have a top level D-1 body. He would have been a great QB at Utah State, but a step too slow and too small to make an impact at the Y. And I don't care how short Drew Brees is or Doug Flutie is Riley isn't close to either of them. Anyway that's my opinion and I'm sticking with it.

jake didnt come to redshirt! jake wasnt going on a mission! Some of you are smoking the soon to be california state plant.

Absolutely it would have made a difference. It seems like a lot of people are comparing JJ's production to Unga and assuming that just because he was our most efficient offensive player that we didn't need Unga after all, but that is terrible logic. Our team SUCKED for 7 games, so just because a guy was the best of a bunch of sorry players does not make him an all-time great. Period. If Unga plays he gets the yards that JJ cannot and will not ever get because he is limited. He can't turn the corner and is not strong enough to break the first tackle. Unga gets yards and first downs like clockwork. He would have made a huge difference as the starter and JJ would've done his thing in reserve and as a slot receiver in 2010...but he does not hold a candle to Unga.