Why Bronco WON'T Hire Cahoon, Detmer, Drage etc.

I need some pro bono hours before the end of the year, so allow me to play Devil's Advocate. I think it is a point worth thinking about.



Most every one on the internet seems convinced that IF Ty and Cahoon apply for the QB coaching spot and the WR coaching spot, they will get the job. The more I think about it, the less convinced I am that Bronco will hire one of Lavell's player's without coaching on their resume. Why? Look at what's happened in the past---look at who Bronco has hired, and who he hasn't hired.



The two big hires Bronco has made since the first year have been OL coach, and secondary coach. Did Bronco reach out to former players? Did he even hire someone LDS? No, he didn't. He hired proven coaching commodities in the areas of their expertise. He hired Jaime Hill--a guy with 18 years experience as a secondary coach. He hired Mark Weber--a guy with 17 years experience as a collegiate coach, 19 years as an OL position coach. I think they were both great hires (note that I said hires--I think Hill was great as a secondary coach. The mistake with him was the promotion to DC).



Let's counter those two examples by looking at the one NFL great from Lavell's era that we all know wants/wanted to help out--Chad Lewis. When Chad came to Bronco and volunteered to coach the tight ends, did Bronco hire Chad? No. In fact he pretty much turned him down flat. He made Chad come in and prove he could coach and do it as a volunteer. Only after Chad earned Bronco's trust was he given more and more latitude with the tight ends.



So, to me, it looks like Bronco is all about bringing the tradition and glory back from the Lavell days and welcomes the former players to visit and feel some ownership of the program, but that doesn't mean he trusts them with the X's and O's of the team. Kelly Poppinga is the only former player Bronco has added to the staff--promoted from a graduate assistant, and not one of Lavell's players--a Bronco protege.



In short, I don't know that a long NFL career or an outstanding CFL career are going to be enough for Bronco to take a chance on one of Lavell's players. An 8 year, 3 pro bowl career wasn't enough for Chad Lewis to get a paid position, so I don't see how things would work out differently with Detmer or Cahoon. Bronco seems to want guys who have a long coaching history or people he knows and trusts personally. Detmer and Cahoon (Drage etc) don't fit that mold.



I would look for Bronco to hire two people we've never heard of. Probably someone with Snow, Or. St., or UNM ties or someone with a long resume.

Bronco has only made one hire with no coaching experience: Doman. I'm not sure Bronco would want to add two coaches with no experience (and coaching is different than playing) at the same time. And heading into independence. I could see him adding one such coach if they could be coupled with a more experienced coach (i.e. bring Cahoon in for WRs along with another coach to lead TEs and help break Cahoon in).



The more I think about Ty, the less convinced I am he's coming.

(Kitic beat me to it - I need to type faster) As a counter to your argument, don't forget Doman was also Bronco's hire, straight from the 49ers with less experience playing than anyone mentioned above and no coaching experience. From Doman's own account about the hire, however, it was a grueling and very thorough interview process with Bronco. I think we do get Cahoon, although I did hear that Bronco wanted him to come on as a graduate assistant first which would support your premise to some degree. Overall, I think Bronco is looking more for like-minded coaches/players than for the most experience or complete resume. I think Bronco's first priority is to change the culture and attitude of the program and he will hire the coaches to help do that - So Doman stays. Cahoon may be a reluctant hire in the sense Bronco would prefer a more proven coach, but can't pass up the opportunity to get a guy like Cahoon. Detmer would be a great fit/match if he had the fire to coach and if there was a spot for him which I don't think there is.

I put more money on Cahoon coming than Detmer. My thinking is that, IMO, our two biggest coaching deficiencies were in the play calling (offensive coordinator) and the wide receivers. While the WRs came around by the end of the year, I think they were sufficiently awful that a coaching change is needed (remember they had to be called out both as a group and individually during team meetings and with the head coach).



So, I think we attempt to rectify the play calling issue by promoting Doman to OC and the wide receiver issue by bringing on Cahoon.

I left out the first year for a reason--Dick Harmon now (after 6 years) is saying that Anae was not Bronco's hire--that Anae was in place before we had a HC. I don't believe this myself--I know one person whose opinion was sought in the hiring process who stated that part of Bronco's pitch was Robert Anae as OC, but I will admit that maybe Bronco made that part of his pitch knowing Anae was already on board. If Harmon is right, Doman was possibly a Robert Anae hire, not a Bronco Mendenhall hire.

I personally believe that Bronco has his eyes set on greatness and I'm not sure that following the same set of rules for hiring that he followed the 1st time is neccessarily a recipe for great success.

snoscythe wrote:
I need some pro bono hours before the end of the year, so allow me to play Devil's Advocate. I think it is a point worth thinking about.



Most every one on the internet seems convinced that IF Ty and Cahoon apply for the QB coaching spot and the WR coaching spot, they will get the job. The more I think about it, the less convinced I am that Bronco will hire one of Lavell's player's without coaching on their resume. Why? Look at what's happened in the past---look at who Bronco has hired, and who he hasn't hired.



The two big hires Bronco has made since the first year have been OL coach, and secondary coach. Did Bronco reach out to former players? Did he even hire someone LDS? No, he didn't. He hired proven coaching commodities in the areas of their expertise. He hired Jaime Hill--a guy with 18 years experience as a secondary coach. He hired Mark Weber--a guy with 17 years experience as a collegiate coach, 19 years as an OL position coach. I think they were both great hires (note that I said hires--I think Hill was great as a secondary coach. The mistake with him was the promotion to DC).



Let's counter those two examples by looking at the one NFL great from Lavell's era that we all know wants/wanted to help out--Chad Lewis. When Chad came to Bronco and volunteered to coach the tight ends, did Bronco hire Chad? No. In fact he pretty much turned him down flat. He made Chad come in and prove he could coach and do it as a volunteer. Only after Chad earned Bronco's trust was he given more and more latitude with the tight ends.



So, to me, it looks like Bronco is all about bringing the tradition and glory back from the Lavell days and welcomes the former players to visit and feel some ownership of the program, but that doesn't mean he trusts them with the X's and O's of the team. Kelly Poppinga is the only former player Bronco has added to the staff--promoted from a graduate assistant, and not one of Lavell's players--a Bronco protege.



In short, I don't know that a long NFL career or an outstanding CFL career are going to be enough for Bronco to take a chance on one of Lavell's players. An 8 year, 3 pro bowl career wasn't enough for Chad Lewis to get a paid position, so I don't see how things would work out differently with Detmer or Cahoon. Bronco seems to want guys who have a long coaching history or people he knows and trusts personally. Detmer and Cahoon (Drage etc) don't fit that mold.



I would look for Bronco to hire two people we've never heard of. Probably someone with Snow, Or. St., or UNM ties or someone with a long resume.

While has technically never been a quarterback coach, I think its fair to say in all reality he is has many years experiences as a "quarterback coach." The biggest drawback I see to hiring him is hte meshing with Bronco issue. If he is not interested in working really hard (referencing vai's article) and buying in, then Bronco is not going to hire him. But getting detmer as a qb coach would be huge for any program from a recruiting and coaching perspective. I think that is fair to say.



You make good points. I suspect we will all be a little suprised at what Bronco and Holmoe end up doing.

Bronco will hire who he wants. Period. And it will be for reasons he wants. Culture being one of those reasons. I think he learned the value of getting guys that understand BYU being different, so former players would fit that bill. If they can teach and recruit, and have that fire abot BYU, Ithink experience will be less of a hindrance.

To be a devil to the devil's devil (CraigO): Why is Anae not a "blue-blood"? He helped BYU win the National Championship for goodness sake.



But I agree with your concerns for not hiring Detmer: http://www.cougarcorner.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6712&start=10.



To Sno, I wonder how much of the Hill/Weber hires were "diversity hires". Most of the staff at that point were either white or polynesian, and I can't think of any non-LDS on the coaching roster when they were brought on. So it's not necessarily that he was going out of his way to avoid Edwards' players, but more that he also had demographic considerations when making the hires.



Of course, with Hill now gone, there could be an effort to do the same. That diversity is very important, I believe. It's useful both in recruiting and retention of the non-white/poly and non-LDS kids (and parents) to have a coach "like them." That's one reason I think Weber stays.

CrimsonCoug wrote:
To be a devil to the devil's devil (CraigO): Why is Anae not a "blue-blood"? He helped BYU win the National Championship for goodness sake.



But I agree with your concerns for not hiring Detmer: http://www.cougarcorner.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6712&start=10.



To Sno, I wonder how much of the Hill/Weber hires were "diversity hires". Most of the staff at that point were either white or polynesian, and I can't think of any non-LDS on the coaching roster when they were brought on. So it's not necessarily that he was going out of his way to avoid Edwards' players, but more that he also had demographic considerations when making the hires.



Of course, with Hill now gone, there could be an effort to do the same. That diversity is very important, I believe. It's useful both in recruiting and retention of the non-white/poly and non-LDS kids (and parents) to have a coach "like them." That's one reason I think Weber stays.

In the college football world, diversity is important. Although Bronco will hire who he wants, he will frame that hire to benefit recruiting, which includes being diverse like the athletes he wants. Of course, it will be tempered by fitting within BYU standards, but many want BYU standards so it won't be too hard to find someone wanting that lifestyle as a coach.

To me, Bronco is just not anywhere close to a typical coach and that is consistent with his personality. You learn to trust him, but you notice that he is bull-headed enough at times to make mistakes that he could probably have averted if he was more open to some feedback. You really wonder where he gets feedback since he claims in many instances (pressers) to not have been aware of some issue that is hot in the media, but at the same time he admits that Sundays at church can be rough at times with all the arm-chair QBs he encounters. He's not inclined either to divulge much of what is going on until he needs to, so I have no idea how much influence over this whole offensive coach issue has been brought on by conversations with TH and how much he came up with himself.



I would agree with those that have stated that it seems unlikely that Bronco would hire two coaches with no coaching experience, but Detmer is actually a coach, just only on the high school level and with very few years under his belt, but at least he spent a lot of time nurturing fellow QB's on the roster of his NFL teams. I don't see how anyone could look on his resume and not say that he has sufficient experience to handle coaching QB's on a college level.



I have faith that all EVENTUALLY comes out okay with Bronco, but sometimes it's hard to weather his still apparent "rookie" behavior when he comes upon issues he's never handled before. On a coaching level this season has been a bit bizzare.

CrimsonCoug wrote:
To be a devil to the devil's devil (CraigO): Why is Anae not a "blue-blood"? He helped BYU win the National Championship for goodness sake.



But I agree with your concerns for not hiring Detmer: http://www.cougarcorner.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6712&start=10.



To Sno, I wonder how much of the Hill/Weber hires were "diversity hires". Most of the staff at that point were either white or polynesian, and I can't think of any non-LDS on the coaching roster when they were brought on. So it's not necessarily that he was going out of his way to avoid Edwards' players, but more that he also had demographic considerations when making the hires.



Of course, with Hill now gone, there could be an effort to do the same. That diversity is very important, I believe. It's useful both in recruiting and retention of the non-white/poly and non-LDS kids (and parents) to have a coach "like them." That's one reason I think Weber stays.

Anae certainly has BYU cred, but he doesnt' carry himself like a BYU lifer, he doesn't recruit like a BYU lifer (in fact he doesn't recruit at all, which is sad considering he has the polynesian roots) and if you've ever met him, he can be quite aloof in BYU circles.



Who doesn't fit here? Doman, Reynolds, Kaufusi, Anae....



If Detmer and Cahoon were interested and took the BYU jobs, they would most certainly fit the bill and act the part. I have no idea of their interest and I think that's ultimately what will mean Detmer doesn't come. Bronco is a "how bad do you want it" guy and I'm not sure Detmer wants it that bad; however if he took the job, then he does so knowing what it demands and I'm 1000% sure he'd throw himself at it like he did as an NFLer; that's completely the question.



Detmer knows what it would take to be great and I'm not sure he's willing to make that sacrifice. If he takes the job (if offered) then I'll be sold that he's going to throw himself at it.

Another issue he could be looking at is their connections to high school programs and areas of the country. That is one edge that experience hires would bring.

craigoscarson wrote:
If Detmer and Cahoon were interested and took the BYU jobs, they would most certainly fit the bill and act the part. I have no idea of their interest and I think that's ultimately what will mean Detmer doesn't come. Bronco is a "how bad do you want it" guy and I'm not sure Detmer wants it that bad; however if he took the job, then he does so knowing what it demands and I'm 1000% sure he'd throw himself at it like he did as an NFLer; that's completely the question.



Detmer knows what it would take to be great and I'm not sure he's willing to make that sacrifice. If he takes the job (if offered) then I'll be sold that he's going to throw himself at it.

That's exactly how Bronco recruits players, so I don't know that he'd change his model for recruiting coaches. Not saying that's a right/good decision. Bronco has lamented having to sit in the living room of a 17-18 yer old and convince them to come to the program. I think it's different when you are trying to bring in the mentor/care-taker types that will be the coaching staff, but I see Bronco going with the model until it fails him. Then tweaking.

scott715 wrote:
Another issue he could be looking at is their connections to high school programs and areas of the country. That is one edge that experience hires would bring.

BYUs recruiting is so specific and peculiar that I'm not sure that "big name" doesn't trump "knows a particular area." Outside of Utah, the only other regular hotbed we can count on is the Phoenix area and Southern California, and I suppose Hawaii if you believe that we can actually count on Hawaii (which I don't), even if we brought in a Hawaii specific recruiter. Of either of those areas, I haven't heard of a candidate that has a strangle-hold on an area that we've considered.



For BYU, no name would rock the recruiting landscape more than "Detmer" unless you managed to bring in "Young"; it's an awe inspiring name in BYU circles and that awe would carry over into recruiting. This is something we havent' had since Lavell was at the top of his game.



Texas and other areas will always be hit or miss and extremely irregular because of the LDS nature of our school. There are recruits out there, but not enough that we can count on them with any regularity, but with Doman and Tidwell leading the charge (both stellar at what they do in recruiting) then Detmer and Bronco as good cop/bad cop closers (Bronco can really intimidate a kid in a good way and sometimes in a bad way) we could really increase the baseline talent level at the Y.



While Lane Kiffin is a buffoon of catastrophic proportions, there are very few coaches out there that understand the importance of recruiting in this country more than he and his staff (including Orgeron) and his hires have been done so, in order to attract recruits and it has worked; you can win in spite of bad coaching with great recruiting just not with regularity (ask Texas).



When you combine great coaching with great recruiting then you get dynasty caliber teams. If Bronco wants to ever win a national championship then the Heaps '10 class has to be a regular thing not a once every decade thing and that requires more cache in recruiting.



There are many great Xs and O's guys out there that could coach at the highest levels of college; in fact there are small college coaches that could handle the X's and Os at the big time, I have no doubt. How they recruit really seals the deal for me.



What did Higgns and Anae bring to recruiting? Nothing

I think a name people threw around months ago, that has not got much traction recently should still be on the radar. That person is Micah Alba. Bronco would bring him in to coach the DBs as he does at FSU, slap a co-DC label on him, and basically groom him to take over the D. he is also a BYU grad, and fills the diversity position. When Coach Hill got ran, he was also DB coach, and the staff got temporarily rearranged. I think this is an area people are forgetting about because of the offensive changes, but I could see this happening for 2011, and would be surprised if BYU did not make a run at Micah. HE is a Bronco type of guy.

HoosierCougar wrote:

If Detmer and Cahoon were interested and took the BYU jobs, they would most certainly fit the bill and act the part. I have no idea of their interest and I think that's ultimately what will mean Detmer doesn't come. Bronco is a "how bad do you want it" guy and I'm not sure Detmer wants it that bad; however if he took the job, then he does so knowing what it demands and I'm 1000% sure he'd throw himself at it like he did as an NFLer; that's completely the question.



Detmer knows what it would take to be great and I'm not sure he's willing to make that sacrifice. If he takes the job (if offered) then I'll be sold that he's going to throw himself at it.

That's exactly how Bronco recruits players, so I don't know that he'd change his model for recruiting coaches. Not saying that's a right/good decision. Bronco has lamented having to sit in the living room of a 17-18 yer old and convince them to come to the program. I think it's different when you are trying to bring in the mentor/care-taker types that will be the coaching staff, but I see Bronco going with the model until it fails him. Then tweaking.

Like I said, I don't think Bronco will change his attitude on "how bad do you want it" which is why I think Detmer is a longshot. HOWEVER, if Detmer were hired, then I think we all have to believe that he wants it and passed the Mendenhall scrutiny test.



On a different note; I think it has failed Bronco at times in recruiting. Not all kids respond the same to the same methods of recruiting; I think it failed him with Manti Teo, Schwenke and Jamora, among others and I think it'll cost him Hinds if he's not careful.



However, I also dont' know how consistent he is in this method. Tayo Fabuluje had no idea how bad he wanted it because he obviously didn't understand what it would take. Teo, Jamora, and Schwenke were much more prepared for what it would it would take, having LDS and Poly ties and still walked away after committing at one point in time. While they'll all say they love Bronco, I also think they were put off by his take it or leave it nature. I think there's a happy medium and under no circumstance, does Bronco take the blame for the wishy-washy nature of Hawaiian recruits, or the few occasions when the honor code was a deal breaker, but don't for a second believe that Mendenhalls recruiting method is sure fire.



I've personally talked to a recruit for 2012 that has mixed feelings about Bronco as a recruiter (and feels a little intimidated with him), yet has zero concerns about him as a head coach. Enter Doman and potentially Detmer and you might just get your cake and eat it too.



While Doman is an ace recruiter and Tidwell has been very good for a very longtime. I think the best recruiter at the entire university is the church and its membership... however for whatever reason that has not been enough to seal the deal on many 4-5 star talents. Broncos method hasn't really changed that.



The guy that I think gets it the very best at the school is Dave Rose. The guy simply does not miss. He doesn't miss on talent and he doesn't miss on his targets. This would be the man that I would want to tap and emulate as far as the style of recruting that works best.



Bronco does his thing and it works relatively well, but I think that the reason it works is because Tidwell and Doman are more like Dave Rose than Mendenhall. I think Detmer brings a Lavell/Rose quality that would pay off big time; assuming he passes the "how bad do you want it" Mendenhall test 1st.

craigoscarson wrote:

craigoscarson wrote:
If Detmer and Cahoon were interested and took the BYU jobs, they would most certainly fit the bill and act the part. I have no idea of their interest and I think that's ultimately what will mean Detmer doesn't come. Bronco is a "how bad do you want it" guy and I'm not sure Detmer wants it that bad; however if he took the job, then he does so knowing what it demands and I'm 1000% sure he'd throw himself at it like he did as an NFLer; that's completely the question.



Detmer knows what it would take to be great and I'm not sure he's willing to make that sacrifice. If he takes the job (if offered) then I'll be sold that he's going to throw himself at it.

That's exactly how Bronco recruits players, so I don't know that he'd change his model for recruiting coaches. Not saying that's a right/good decision. Bronco has lamented having to sit in the living room of a 17-18 yer old and convince them to come to the program. I think it's different when you are trying to bring in the mentor/care-taker types that will be the coaching staff, but I see Bronco going with the model until it fails him. Then tweaking.

Like I said, I don't think Bronco will change his attitude on "how bad do you want it" which is why I think Detmer is a longshot. HOWEVER, if Detmer were hired, then I think we all have to believe that he wants it and passed the Mendenhall scrutiny test.



On a different note; I think it has failed Bronco at times in recruiting. Not all kids respond the same to the same methods of recruiting; I think it failed him with Manti Teo, Schwenke and Jamora, among others and I think it'll cost him Hinds if he's not careful.



However, I also dont' know how consistent he is in this method. Tayo Fabuluje had no idea how bad he wanted it because he obviously didn't understand what it would take. Teo, Jamora, and Schwenke were much more prepared for what it would it would take, having LDS and Poly ties and still walked away after committing at one point in time. While they'll all say they love Bronco, I also think they were put off by his take it or leave it nature. I think there's a happy medium and under no circumstance, does Bronco take the blame for the wishy-washy nature of Hawaiian recruits, or the few occasions when the honor code was a deal breaker, but don't for a second believe that Mendenhalls recruiting method is sure fire.



I've personally talked to a recruit for 2012 that has mixed feelings about Bronco as a recruiter (and feels a little intimidated with him), yet has zero concerns about him as a head coach. Enter Doman and potentially Detmer and you might just get your cake and eat it too.



While Doman is an ace recruiter and Tidwell has been very good for a very longtime. I think the best recruiter at the entire university is the church and its membership... however for whatever reason that has not been enough to seal the deal on many 4-5 star talents. Broncos method hasn't really changed that.



The guy that I think gets it the very best at the school is Dave Rose. The guy simply does not miss. He doesn't miss on talent and he doesn't miss on his targets. This would be the man that I would want to tap and emulate as far as the style of recruting that works best.



Bronco does his thing and it works relatively well, but I think that the reason it works is because Tidwell and Doman are more like Dave Rose than Mendenhall. I think Detmer brings a Lavell/Rose quality that would pay off big time; assuming he passes the "how bad do you want it" Mendenhall test 1st.

Thanks Craig, I enjoy your comments on this thread. I agree with you that recruiting is perhaps 70% of the battle. Bronco does a good job, but not an outstanding job. I will quibble about one thing regarding bringing on a coach like Detmer or Young. Individuals like that would be a coup for BYU to get and to demand that they pass the same "do you want it badly enough" review on someone like that over say someone without that pedigree, would be insulting in my opinion. They should be vetted out that they know what they are doing and have a vision, but the fact they would apply for a position beneath their resume would demonstrate to me that they were serious about the job in the first place. They've been overacheivers all their lives, why would it be any different at this stage?



Bronco sometimes is too Bronco at times.

craigoscarson wrote:

craigoscarson wrote:
If Detmer and Cahoon were interested and took the BYU jobs, they would most certainly fit the bill and act the part.............then I'll be sold that he's going to throw himself at it.

While Doman is an ace recruiter and Tidwell has been very good for a very longtime. I think the best recruiter at the entire university is the church and its membership... however for whatever reason that has not been enough to seal the deal on many 4-5 star talents. Broncos method hasn't really changed that.



The guy that I think gets it the very best at the school is Dave Rose. The guy simply does not miss. He doesn't miss on talent and he doesn't miss on his targets. This would be the man that I would want to tap and emulate as far as the style of recruting that works best. ...

Craigo, I usually enjoy your comments, be they long or whatnot. But it seems to me if you look back over the years, Rose has missed on a few also. I realize this is football and not BB, but Kingma isn't coming, and the bottom of the BB bench doesn't contribute that much, and they were Rose recruits. So it is just a numbers game, since FB recruits so many more than BB.



There are many parents of kids who have been recruited who were very impressed with Bronco, whether the kid came or not.



To me Bronco doesn't appear to be a fast learner.

When he finds something that works, he hangs on, tho sometimes too long when exceptions are in order.

He seems to hold on to values and keeps them himself. Walks the walk.

Is trying to surround himself with the best that he can. (I think Detmer fits this mold)

Is awesome for BYU.

One of my friends who gets to work with the team has expressed his opinion that Bronco is considered almost an angel among the BYU hierarchy.



As I was sitting eating lunch with other officials during one of the BYU FB camps, Bronco walked by/thru our group to his office. Of course we all chimed in to hear how things were. His only comment was along the lines of how life is so different as the BYU coach with some 300 emails a day full of suggestions, critiques, advice, etc. He sort of hinted that he wondered how we would like it, asking how we would like to handle 300 emails a day along those lines. We all just sort of backed off. He has an interesting load. No wonder he has commented that this is not a life long expectation for him.



I realize these comments are disjointed, but those are my thots about what you surmise. I think Bronco is the best at this we have ever had. Lavell brought greatness to the program, but Bronco is for this generation.



I hope we get Detmer. Those at Green Bay when he was there indicated that he was the smartest qp they had ever had. The defensive coach did not like to have him running the scout teams, because he was better at it than the qb they would go up against in the games.



Cahoon brings a mindset which would do the Y receivers greatness. (not just do them good) His pure commitment goes back to the old Y possession receiver mentality. Don't know if he could impart it to the players tho.