This year's theme: "What Might Have Been"

I hate to be a wet blanket on this most joyous weekend, but I can't seem to get Little Texas' "What Might Have Been" out of my head. You've guessed it-this is my weekly "if only we weren't plagued by asisininty in august and september" post. This team is a 10- or 11-win caliber team and were it not for poor decisions, I think we would be at least 7-3 but as good as 9-1 right now. I realize that part of the reason for our success is the opponents of late. I also understand that there are benefits to losing early (see SDSU in 2005), but there are more benefits to winning early and I think we could have done so.



I know we can't change the past, but we certainly can learn from it. I think we will roll UNM, defeat Utah and win our bowl game to finish 8-5, even getting some poll votes. Utah, meanwhile, will lose their last 5 (unless they get a garbage bowl opponent, which is very likely). What happens in the off season is anyone's guess, but I know there will still be pressure from big time donors to make a couple coaching changes. I think they will happen.



Ask yourself: 1) is what Anae has done thus far (two 11-2 seasons are the high points) is worth what we went through this year and 2) if you're okay with never being better than a 2-loss team.



My answers: 1) absoultely not, 2) no-and neither is bronco.



flame away.



Go COUGS!!!



P.S. apparently youtube doesn't allow imbedding its videos anymore?

There has to be a learning curve for the true freshmen... what is now exists because of what happened previously. They either learn on the field and struggle or they learn off the field (slower learning) and our team most likely still struggles (it's not like we had world beater upperclassmen that should have been playing)... There was no possibilty that Heaps would have played like yesterday in the 1st few weeks, impossible, impossible, impossible. He's a true freshman.



Bronco does not capture the heart of the defense and get them to play like the 85 Bears without canning Hill and canning Hill doesn't happen without Utah State.



Oneill Chambers getting kicked off the team doesn't happen without these struggles... (why act up in practice if we're winning?) I believe that Ashworth and others don't step up until OCs little rebellion and team cancer are cured.



Jake Heaps doesn't get humbled and learn to work atr a higher level than he knew existed without those struggles.



Ogletree and others dont' become the leaders they now are without struggling to find leaders from the senior class.



Everything we are right now is in part because of everything they went through previous to now. I still see this season as a triumph and if the Cougs can win out from here, I'll consider it as successful a coaching job by Bronco as any he's had previously, maybe even moreso because there's no doubt that this is Broncos team and the turnaround is Broncos doing.

I agree to an extent and understand the learning curve. But Jake heaps is very special. We could have been almost this good ENTERING the season, with a few likely hiccups-losses at FSU, TCU and even AFA. We should not have lost to USU or Nevada. There is no reason that Heaps shouldn't have developed and grown much earlier in the year. But I guess I am wrong, as there is a reason for that. There are three reasons: riley nelson, robert anae and delegation. And I think each of them was a huge mistake.

Further, I think Bronco had long recognized his coordinators' shortcomings and provided this year as an opportunity for them to grow as they enjoyed more freedom and control. He gave them just enough rope to hang themselves, and that's what they did. Now it will be interesting to see if Robert Anae's autonomy will turn out to be fatal for him at BYU.

I think the team's development has shown clearly that Anae has been only a part, and possibly not even the largest part, of why the team was failing earlier in the season. It's fine to still be unhappy with Anae, but there are a lot of people whose hate for Anae is so strong that they've become blind to everything else.

Sammich wrote:
I think the team's development has shown clearly that Anae has been only a part, and possibly not even the largest part, of why the team was failing earlier in the season. It's fine to still be unhappy with Anae, but there are a lot of people whose hate for Anae is so strong that they've become blind to everything else.

If Anae were to stick around (and doman doesn't leave) and we were to eventually win a national championship or at least get into a bcs game, I would then change my stance. As it is, I am tired of settling for 10 or 11 win seasons. I understand why some people are okay with not doing any better than we did in 06 and 09. But, looking back I think we should have been better those years and, looking forward, I think our progression is basically damned with Anae as the OC.



If what I am saying is accurate, how could anyone that wants BYU football to win a title, including bronco, be okay with the status quo, especially as we move into independence?

byutx wrote:

I think the team's development has shown clearly that Anae has been only a part, and possibly not even the largest part, of why the team was failing earlier in the season. It's fine to still be unhappy with Anae, but there are a lot of people whose hate for Anae is so strong that they've become blind to everything else.

If Anae were to stick around (and doman doesn't leave) and we were to eventually win a national championship or at least get into a bcs game, I would then change my stance. As it is, I am tired of settling for 10 or 11 win seasons. I understand why some people are okay with not doing any better than we did in 06 and 09. But, looking back I think we should have been better those years and, looking forward, I think our progression is basically damned with Anae as the OC.



If what I am saying is accurate, how could anyone that wants BYU football to win a title, including bronco, be okay with the status quo, especially as we move into independence?

As long as the honor code exists, I'll always believe that we're going to be short on talent and it would take more than just great play and coaching to win a national championship or BCS game. It'd take a ton of luck.



Even in 1996-97,(arguably our most talented team ever) we were 1 good pass away from losing to Kstate (even though we outplayed them) and an overtime away from losing to Wyoming in what was a very special season and still the winningest team in NCAA history, inspite of 1 loss.



Unless we're willing to give up the honor code to recruit great athletes (good kids that aren't sure they will abide by it) (which we won't) or pay $200k for the services of Cam Newton-like talent (which we won't) or force the NCAA and powers that be to go to a fair system to decide the championship (which they won't) then a national championship might always be out of reach.



I think Broncos credo now (after learning from the "quest for perfection") is that success is determined by how much you improve from today to tommorrow and that what happens on saturdays is just a result.



I'll glady take 10-11 wins a season as ultimately doing so will increase our odds that one year we'll catch some breaks and win them all. Until then, I'll define success on how much we've improved from today until tommorrow, much like i determine success for myself and my family.

byutx wrote:

I think the team's development has shown clearly that Anae has been only a part, and possibly not even the largest part, of why the team was failing earlier in the season. It's fine to still be unhappy with Anae, but there are a lot of people whose hate for Anae is so strong that they've become blind to everything else.

If Anae were to stick around (and doman doesn't leave) and we were to eventually win a national championship or at least get into a bcs game, I would then change my stance. As it is, I am tired of settling for 10 or 11 win seasons. I understand why some people are okay with not doing any better than we did in 06 and 09. But, looking back I think we should have been better those years and, looking forward, I think our progression is basically damned with Anae as the OC.



If what I am saying is accurate, how could anyone that wants BYU football to win a title, including bronco, be okay with the status quo, especially as we move into independence?

That's a different point than you were originally trying to make. Maybe you're right that he's holding us back. But suggesting that Anae is the number one reason why we lost the early games this season is ignoring the other problems we had this year, and discredits all the effort Bronco, the coaches, and the players have put into getting the team to where it is now.

Sammich wrote:

Sammich wrote:
I think the team's development has shown clearly that Anae has been only a part, and possibly not even the largest part, of why the team was failing earlier in the season. It's fine to still be unhappy with Anae, but there are a lot of people whose hate for Anae is so strong that they've become blind to everything else.

If Anae were to stick around (and doman doesn't leave) and we were to eventually win a national championship or at least get into a bcs game, I would then change my stance. As it is, I am tired of settling for 10 or 11 win seasons. I understand why some people are okay with not doing any better than we did in 06 and 09. But, looking back I think we should have been better those years and, looking forward, I think our progression is basically damned with Anae as the OC.



If what I am saying is accurate, how could anyone that wants BYU football to win a title, including bronco, be okay with the status quo, especially as we move into independence?

That's a different point than you were originally trying to make. Maybe you're right that he's holding us back. But suggesting that Anae is the number one reason why we lost the early games this season is ignoring the other problems we had this year, and discredits all the effort Bronco, the coaches, and the players have put into getting the team to where it is now.

My point has always been that robert anae holds us back. In years where we are lean in talent and/or experience, we won't be good enough to cover up his many shortcomings.



I think he is the number one reason for our early offensive struggles, he is the only one on the staff that pushed for riley to be the guy which insured that we would not be able to put everything together offensively until November, he coaches the TE's. Almost every problem we have had has its roots in Robert anae.

craigoscarson wrote:

Sammich wrote:
I think the team's development has shown clearly that Anae has been only a part, and possibly not even the largest part, of why the team was failing earlier in the season. It's fine to still be unhappy with Anae, but there are a lot of people whose hate for Anae is so strong that they've become blind to everything else.

If Anae were to stick around (and doman doesn't leave) and we were to eventually win a national championship or at least get into a bcs game, I would then change my stance. As it is, I am tired of settling for 10 or 11 win seasons. I understand why some people are okay with not doing any better than we did in 06 and 09. But, looking back I think we should have been better those years and, looking forward, I think our progression is basically damned with Anae as the OC.



If what I am saying is accurate, how could anyone that wants BYU football to win a title, including bronco, be okay with the status quo, especially as we move into independence?

As long as the honor code exists, I'll always believe that we're going to be short on talent and it would take more than just great play and coaching to win a national championship or BCS game. It'd take a ton of luck.



Even in 1996-97,(arguably our most talented team ever) we were 1 good pass away from losing to Kstate (even though we outplayed them) and an overtime away from losing to Wyoming in what was a very special season and still the winningest team in NCAA history, inspite of 1 loss.



Unless we're willing to give up the honor code to recruit great athletes (good kids that aren't sure they will abide by it) (which we won't) or pay $200k for the services of Cam Newton-like talent (which we won't) or force the NCAA and powers that be to go to a fair system to decide the championship (which they won't) then a national championship might always be out of reach.



I think Broncos credo now (after learning from the "quest for perfection") is that success is determined by how much you improve from today to tommorrow and that what happens on saturdays is just a result.



I'll glady take 10-11 wins a season as ultimately doing so will increase our odds that one year we'll catch some breaks and win them all. Until then, I'll define success on how much we've improved from today until tommorrow, much like i determine success for myself and my family.

I think many fans would agree with you. I agree in principle, but I think we need to do more to put ourselves in a position to be able to proactively go after a title or at least a bcs bowl game and not hope it lands in our laps.

craigoscarson wrote:
There has to be a learning curve for the true freshmen... what is now exists because of what happened previously. They either learn on the field and struggle or they learn off the field (slower learning) and our team most likely still struggles (it's not like we had world beater upperclassmen that should have been playing)... There was no possibilty that Heaps would have played like yesterday in the 1st few weeks, impossible, impossible, impossible. He's a true freshman.



Bronco does not capture the heart of the defense and get them to play like the 85 Bears without canning Hill and canning Hill doesn't happen without Utah State.



Oneill Chambers getting kicked off the team doesn't happen without these struggles... (why act up in practice if we're winning?) I believe that Ashworth and others don't step up until OCs little rebellion and team cancer are cured.



Jake Heaps doesn't get humbled and learn to work atr a higher level than he knew existed without those struggles.



Ogletree and others dont' become the leaders they now are without struggling to find leaders from the senior class.



Everything we are right now is in part because of everything they went through previous to now. I still see this season as a triumph and if the Cougs can win out from here, I'll consider it as successful a coaching job by Bronco as any he's had previously, maybe even moreso because there's no doubt that this is Broncos team and the turnaround is Broncos doing.

Excellent post. I agree 100%. There is no looking back, I don't think this team is this good without the early struggles.

I completely disagree that our players needed the lowest on-field moment since before the LaVell Edwards era (USU) in order to learn and be where we are now. That's not to say that we don't learn from mistakes, but I don't need to let my family and friends to be brutally massacred to know how much I appreciate them.

I think many fans would agree with you. I agree in principle, but I think we need to do more to put ourselves in a position to be able to proactively go after a title or at least a bcs bowl game and not hope it lands in our laps.

proactively give Cam Newton $200k? proactively get Harvey Unga some birth control pre-marriage? proactively turn a blind eye to Manti and Shiloah Teo, Ronney Jenkins, etc.?



BYU is not an easy place for most, and then there's the religious bigotry that exists. We're never going to have the #1 recruiting class in the country because we're incredibly limited on who we can recruit from day 1 (for honor code, religious and even geographical reasons) and we're not the SECheaters...



For the most part, Bronco has done very well with what he has. The one criticism you give that is incredibly pertinent is how much rope he gave his assistants. It obviously was too much; but after 4 straight double digit winning seasons and complete bowl game dominance, I think he thought it was time to give them their chance, they deserved it. What we learned, was that they weren't ready. Much like giving a straight A student and Eagle scout a drivers liscence at 16; this doesn't preclude them from going out and wrecking the car, just that they did what was required of them to get the chance.

A chorus of voices of sound reasoning have responded. I would like to go undefeated every year andxwhen we don't, 1 loss is better than two.



BYU enjoyed Lavell Edwards for about 30 years as HC. Heisman trophy. Many other trophies. Conference championships. NFL legends. QB factory.



And we have gone undefeated exactly once. Then unrealistic fans drove Edwards to retire early and the best OC in the land to leave bitterly.



Same fans crowned Gary Crowton as diety that would take us to a new level before he proved anything. Crowton took us to a new level after feasting briefly on the supposedly bare cupboard. New level - wrong direction.



If we fired every OC that made us suffer through 1 and 2 loss seasons or worse - we would have fired the one that won the NC before he won it and we would have zero undefeated seasons.



I hope overly ambitious scheduling doesn't leave you whining for every coach we ever get to be fired.



BTW - I have never been a big Robert Anae fan - but those not blinded by what they wish could have been will look around and see legendary coaches at Florida, South Carolina, Texas, and many other places struggling this year because the experience and talent level of their players was off just slightly. Those schools have higher rated recruiting classes than BTU almost every year and even they do not go undefeated most years.



So do some research and list all of the schools in the history of NCAA football that started a True Freshman QB from week 1 and won even 10 games - put an * by the undefeated ones. Then list by name all the coaches you would be firing when they got 5 losses.



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Cougarbib2 wrote:
And we have gone undefeated exactly once. Then unrealistic fans drove Edwards to retire early and the best OC in the land to leave bitterly.

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Unrealistic fans let Lavell stay three or four years too long thinking he could return to his glory years.



I may get lambasted for this, but I don't think Lavell could repeat his tenure at BYU. I don't think he could be as successful now as he was then.

kitic77 wrote:

And we have gone undefeated exactly once. Then unrealistic fans drove Edwards to retire early and the best OC in the land to leave bitterly.

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Unrealistic fans let Lavell stay three or four years too long thinking he could return to his glory years.



I may get lambasted for this, but I don't think Lavell could repeat his tenure at BYU. I don't think he could be as successful now as he was then.

I agree with you to a point. I think BYU was able to keep ahold of some talent that would have been dismissed from BYU in today's fish bowl media coverage. Having said that, Coach Edwards was a great coach and I think he would have been very good even in today's game. He was very good at hiring and training assistants. Just look at some of the assistant coaching talent that came through BYU and you will see one of the reasons that the 80's happened.

craigoscarson wrote:

I think many fans would agree with you. I agree in principle, but I think we need to do more to put ourselves in a position to be able to proactively go after a title or at least a bcs bowl game and not hope it lands in our laps.

proactively give Cam Newton $200k? proactively get Harvey Unga some birth control pre-marriage? proactively turn a blind eye to Manti and Shiloah Teo, Ronney Jenkins, etc.?



BYU is not an easy place for most, and then there's the religious bigotry that exists. We're never going to have the #1 recruiting class in the country because we're incredibly limited on who we can recruit from day 1 (for honor code, religious and even geographical reasons) and we're not the SECheaters...



For the most part, Bronco has done very well with what he has. The one criticism you give that is incredibly pertinent is how much rope he gave his assistants. It obviously was too much; but after 4 straight double digit winning seasons and complete bowl game dominance, I think he thought it was time to give them their chance, they deserved it. What we learned, was that they weren't ready. Much like giving a straight A student and Eagle scout a drivers liscence at 16; this doesn't preclude them from going out and wrecking the car, just that they did what was required of them to get the chance.

I mean go out and get coaching talent that matches our recruited talent.

kitic77 wrote:

And we have gone undefeated exactly once. Then unrealistic fans drove Edwards to retire early and the best OC in the land to leave bitterly.

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Unrealistic fans let Lavell stay three or four years too long thinking he could return to his glory years.



I may get lambasted for this, but I don't think Lavell could repeat his tenure at BYU. I don't think he could be as successful now as he was then.

I agree that he wouldn't be as successful now, but of course Wilt Chamberlain wouldn't have been as dominant now, putting a man on the moon wouldn't seem like a difficult task, and John Wooden wouldnt' have won 1000 national championships in a row.



Lavell was perfect for his time; and at some point you allow legends to stay as long as it makes sense (ala Bowden, Paterno, etc.) the problem with the Lavell era ending, was that we didn't make a smooth transition (this is not unusual though). And it took Crowton falling on his face to get Bronco on board. Gotta take the good with the bad; they're interconnected more than we like to believe.



As to the post above, Norm Chow had worn out his welcome in Provo and his staying a minute longer would have been too long. It's interesting that we eventually replaced him with another polynesian OC that also happens to be a pretty terrible recruiter. (neither Norm or Robert were much for recruiting and have even turned off recruits)

Yeah Chow wore out his welcome and look what we got while Chow performed nationally renowned development of Heisman candidates at NC Freaking State and a USC turnaround of epic proportions.



BTW I was never a fan of his personality or of Roger Reid's personality. Both, IMHO, were greatly unappreciated by BYU fans.



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byutx wrote:
I completely disagree that our players needed the lowest on-field moment since before the LaVell Edwards era (USU) in order to learn and be where we are now. That's not to say that we don't learn from mistakes, but I don't need to let my family and friends to be brutally massacred to know how much I appreciate them.

Losing at home to UNLV was the lowest point in BYU athletics. Maybe losing at Nevada on poor clock management. I don't think anyone should talk of firing Anae unless they can think of someone who is available who can consistantly get us 10 to 11 wins per year. Point is I'm not sure we can find better. I'm quite sure we could find a lot worse. Plus it takes a whole year to transition to a new offense. Why would we sacrifice next year, which should be great, so that this unmentioned OC genius can get his system in place. Bottom line, what has hurt us this year, Anae being slow to trust and adjust, is why this team will do very well the next three years.