Rank Our Players?

Too soon to tell. but heres what I would put after watching one game--

1. Jimmer

2. Jackson

3. Noah (benefit of doubt, tho he didnt play)

4. KC

5. Davies (wish he was stronger and fewer TO's--but have to have a post in top 5, right?)



6.ABouo

7.Chris C

8. Anderson

9. Martineau

10.Zylstra

11. Magnussen

12 Winder

13 Rogers

talent or production?



Talent: (physically there is no close 2nd to Charles and his footwork and strength, hoopswise it's a no brainer for Jimmer)

1. Jimmer

2. Charles

3. KC

4. Jackson

5. Brandon

6. CC

7. Noah

8. Anson

9. Stephen

10. James

11. Nick

12. Brock

13. Logan



Production (what I expect)

1. Jimmer

2. Jackson

3. Noah

4. Charles

5. Brandon

6. KC

7. CC

8. James

9. Nick

10. Stephen

11. Brock

12. Logan

13. Anson (redshirt)



What I hope is that Brandon moves up to 2-3 on production and Charles is 3-4

Mars wrote:


Last year the team was deep, and to help that almost the entire team was doing a great job shooting free throws well.



This year, we have a lot of bodies, but so far I'm unsure of who we can count on against great opponents. We have:



1. Jimmer

2. Emery

3. Hartsock

4. Davies

5. Abouo



After that? All relatively unproven guys. Which of them are true high-major I-A talents? Which of them are more walk-on material than actual scholarship guys? I just don't know yet...



6. Chris C.?

7. Anderson?

8. Kyle C.?

9. Rogers?

10. Martineau?

11. Winder?

12. Zylstra?

13. Magnusson?



I'm more looking at 2011 than long-term here, as guys like KC could obviously be huge as an upperclassman...



Your thoughts?

It's hard to look to 2011 when this is Jimmer's last season playing college ball. He is the driving force of this team and without him we have almost no chance of doing anything in the tourney...

Hmm...here's my list. Keep in mind I haven't seen any games this season. So, this list is primarily based off what I know from last season and what I hope is true for this season.



1. Jimmer - the obvious choice

2. Abouo - I actually think he's better than Jackson. I like his defense better, he's a good shooter and has some post up moves. With some confidence, his potential is huge

3. Jackson - I think he's flat-lined a bit, though he's invaluable on defense, moving the ball around and leading the team, but not the most prolific scorer. 2nd leading re-bounder last season

4. Hartsock - Could be more aggressive, but he has an uncanny knack for being in the right spot at the right time. Best re-bounder on the team last year and best shot blocker

5. Davies - Showed flashes of brilliance at the 5 last season. Poses more of a threat down-low than Miles ever did, but plays defense with his hands



After that...it's a crap shoot. I'd expect it to be:



6. C. Collinsworth - was a great spark off the bench his freshman year. Once he gets his legs and shot back, I'd expect him to be able to hoop it up. Late in the season, my guess is he'll really start clicking

7. Martineau - sounds like he's solid, which is all we need from the back-up point guard. Wish we still had Loyd, but as long as Martineau isn't a liability I'm fine with that

8. Anderson - this is his 3rd season, so I expect a Junior to be up there on the chart. Plays way too soft for his size and is turn-over prone (if he kept the ball up high and didn't bring it down most of that would go away)

9. K. Collinsworth - judging by the hype seems like he ought to be a contributor this season. Hasn't played in a legit D1 basketball game yet, so jury is still out on this kid for me

10. Rogers - don't know. Never seen him play, but supposedly he's a "good" shooter

11. Zylstra - like his hustle and attitude

12. Magnusson - I think I remember seeing him play for a couple of min. in a few games last season. Seemed okay...

13. Winder - Have no idea who this guy is.

Mars wrote:


I don't get Abouo. If he's 2nd on the team in talent, then why was he way down at 9th in the rotation last season?

Maybe because this year is different than last year. Maybe because talent and production are different things.



Maybe because 9th in the rotation is misleading since you don't rotate everyone the same. There isn't one position on the floor and Abouo was the 9th person to see time at that position.

Mars wrote:


I don't get Abouo. If he's 2nd on the team in talent, then why was he way down at 9th in the rotation last season?

Talent and production are very very different. I've seen many teams that look like they have enough talent to do damage but find ways to lose games (SDSU, Tennesee, Texas). I've seen other teams that seem to have little to no talent and are competitive (Utah State, New Mexico, Wichita State, Creighton)



Charles has the tools to be our best player next year after Jimmer graduates... will it happen? Depends on if his mental game catches up to his physical skills. He can shoot, defend, rebound, and take it to the hole, but he hasn't put it all together.



This is not really that unusual; every year there are players that finally put it all together in their junior and senior seasons and weren't world beaters before that. I'm not saying it'll happen, but I'm also not saying I'd be surprised if it did. (who expected Michael Loyd to drop 25+ in some very big games?)



Regardless, I'll take Abouo on defense over anyone else we have right now at the 3, so he's going to get plenty of minutes to show that he's ready.

IMO the reason that Abouo hasn't gotten the big minutes is that he can't dribble. We run a three guard offense. And the '3' needs to be able to run a fastbreak. Also in the halfcourt this limits him.



He is also limited because Emery fills the same roles-- Outside shooter, primary perimeter defender, guard rebounder and fast break finisher.



Now if you are pairing Abouo with Kyle C. and Jimmer then he would have plenty of ball handling support. And he could fill an 'Emery' type role.

Qman wrote:
IMO the reason that Abouo hasn't gotten the big minutes is that he can't dribble. We run a three guard offense. And the '3' needs to be able to run a fastbreak. Also in the halfcourt this limits him.



He is also limited because Emery fills the same roles-- Outside shooter, primary perimeter defender, guard rebounder and fast break finisher.



Now if you are pairing Abouo with Kyle C. and Jimmer then he would have plenty of ball handling support. And he could fill an 'Emery' type role.

Tyler Haws didn't handle the ball on the break either. Charles didn't start because Tyler played with more confidence, has an outstanding hoops IQ. didnt' turn the ball over, and made shots; however Charles was a soph last year and would have started for 2/3 (there are over 300) of D1 teams in the country at the 2 or 3. He's finally earned his chance to start for a preseason top 25 and I personally think he'll make the best of it.



My 1st impression of Charles 1st hand was his freshman year at Tulsa. Tulsa had a ton of weapons and 3 guards who were very good with the ball. Jimmer and Jackson were having real trouble covering Ben Uzoh (currently in the NBA) and after Jackson got hurt, Charles came in and completely shut down Uzoh.

Same thing happened at ASU when Charles was finally put on James Harden. (Harden was going to the hoop with ease until Charles came in).. remember Charles also put in the game winner (until the dirty refs took it away).



Let's not minimize how important defense is... this is where he's the greatest contributor to this team.

Craig, I think you are right. Other than his attempts at thunderous dunks--some not so successful, Charles is that kind of player who is just solid in most things, particularly defensively and with rebounding. It seems for some reasons his offensive style isnt as well suited for BYU--not ill-suited--just not as well. Maybe he fits better in the half-court game.

Against Laval, it did take BYU some time to get the run and gun going. Laval was pesky (albeit 101 points doesnt look like we struggled with any part of our game [except rebounding-shouldve dominated]). I wondered if it was the absence of say Tyler Haws that caused us to slow it down. Case in point, if Charles is rebounding and a little less likely to run, in comparison to Tyler (or a KC), then that would leave Jackson and Jimmer to push it.

But, then again, the pace, while not run and gun, at least in the first half (sorry I dont have fast break point stats for either half--too lazy), Everybody seemed less frantic/fast paced; AND as a result will this serve BYU better through the long season, to not run out of gas by Vegas tourney?

Maybe it's just me, but I think Charles can move up and down the court just fine.



Keep in mind Haws started and played about twice as many minutes as Abouo, so had twice as many opportunities to streak down the court, so our impression of Abouo moving down the court is limited.



Plus, the person grabbing the board usually isn't the same person streaking down the court. On a per min basis, Abouo is our best rebounder, so you have to factor in Abouo was usually busy grabbing the ball and passing it to the person who would than push it up the court. Again, limiting the number of times we'd see him move the ball down.



Given our team's performance on the glass and the fact Jimmer and Jackson are just as capable of pushing the ball down the court, Abouo should fit in perfectly.



Jackson was the team's 2nd leading rebounder last season. Maybe it's jut me, but your shooting guard shouldn't be the 2nd leading rebounder. Granted many of the boards he likely grabbed were long rebounds, but it still seems a little unbalanced.

I'll got with Mars.

YBrit wrote:
I'll got with Mars.

There's more to hoops than reading last weeks box scores.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APAySMepRm8&feature=player_embedded

Here is my "assessment" of this year's players.



Fredette: obviously, he's a great player, I don't need to comment

Jackson: another excellent player, who has proven himelf.

Collinsworth boys: These guys can play. I am impressed with both, though Kyle is the more polished player at this point, but these guys can play--and will. Kyle plays in control, rebounds, shoots, runs the floor.

Abouo: has a lot to offer, but I think the fact he allows himself to play out of control and erratic at times, prevents him from being a great player. His shooting has improved, and I would like to see him secure a very successful spot on this team.

Davies: I get really frustrated with him. He can't shoot, even in close around the basket, his shots rarely go in. He's slow and a low energy guy. I hope he can develop and improve, but currently, he's a disappointment for me.

Hartsock: is a smart player, physical, and a good rebounder, but he has no body control, and needs to learn there are things he can't do. I can't believe he missed an uncontested two hand dunk in the Hawaii game.

Zylstra: I like this kid, he is an agressive, can shoot, and boy I like his play. BYU fans will come to like this kid too.

Rogers: I haven't seen enough of this guy, but he seems to be somebody who can help the team. He's supposed to be a great shooter, I hope he is.



I don't see anybody on this team being a real, aggressive rebounder, other than maybe Hartsock. Davies is too lackadaisical, not agressive, and takes only what comes to him. This is still going to be the Jimmer and Jackson show, I think. If the Collinsworth boys can come along, they could steal the show at times. Abouo could make his mark, but I haven't seen much promise of that yet.



I think this is going to be a good team, one that can challenge for the league title, capable of winning the conference, the MWC tournament, and win some games in the NCAAs.