Talent Succession Failure

Talent Succession Failure -



Between recruits that didn't qualify academically, got booted, got injured, didn't live up to expectations, backed out at the last minute with little notification, quit the team, went on un-planned missions, or would not change positions when requested for the good of the team - and players that acted entitled and did not work hard, players are the biggest issue. Then take into account players not performing well due to taking things for granted, and maybe even coaches looking past New Mexico last year, and instead of a blowout win with opportunities to play everybody - the starters were in until the last second clinging on for the victory.



Admittedly, coaches recruit the players and are responsible to develop them. Head Coaches are responsible to recruit and develop Coordinators, Position Coaches, and players. Coordinators are responsible to recruit and develop position coaches and players. Position coaches are responsible to recruit and develop players. There has been a general failure of the entire coaching staff in this regard - but with an inordinate number of circumstances at a time when the need to replace great players was the greatest.



Harvey Unga shoulda been here. A lot of players with the same last name from Hawaii could have and some should have been here. We likely would have been fine at RB, Line Backer, and Safety had all of the Teo's joined Harvey for this season. But, it didn't work out. Which coach should we blame for those melt-downs. Let's go with Anae since Hill is already gone. Or let's be fair and just admit that Stuff Happens. Then throw in the other guy that flaked and went to ND, and another flake or two and that made a bit dent.



But imagine that Anae, or Doman, or Bronco had the foresight last year to say "If we don't stick Nelson in here this season, frequently, in special circumstances i.e. wildcat, or to mop up in blow-out losses or blow-out wins, and let him go full out and throw the ball and run it and see if he has the stuff or not before the supporting cast all departs, we will have a big stinking QB controversy next year and will have problems in the team and with the fans no matter what we do". Had they done that, we would all know Nelson actually is a DI QB that can make enough of the throws to lead this team - or we would know clearly that he is not.



That is the biggest issue I have with coaching and its impact on this team. Just extend the same logic to returners (Chambers got too many touches, made me shudder every time, shoulda developed some others). We shoulda developed some linebackers.



I almost forgot Kyle Van Noy. He shoulda been here a year ago, gotten experience a year ago, and started this season.



Coaches shoulda figured out who the next center was going to be and developed that last year.



And, tight ends - wow - if any of them were actually here last year and red-shirting - I have lost track - they shoulda been seeing the field.



Coaches have been criticized for indecision. It would have been a lot easier to decide which QB and which tight end this year, if they had done some look / see last year.



And, we seem to be repeating that failure this year.

Cougarbib, I totally agree. My initial reaction to your post was to think that it seemed like there were very few true "mop-up" games last year, but as I reviewed last year's schedule, I realized that I was projecting my feelings about this year's futility onto last year's team: 54-3 over Tulane, 42-23 over CSU, 35-17 over USU, 52-0 over Wyoming (they must have counted a 25-20 loss as a moral victory this year!), 38-21 over AFA, 44-20 over OSU. That means we won half of our games by 17 points or more. Maybe I just felt like some of the games were closer than they should have been, like the SDSU game which was within a touchdown until we kicked a field goal with 2 min. left in the game, or when New Mexico was a failed 2 pt conversion away from being within a field goal with 4 min left in the game. Or the Utah game, which almost always gives me a heart attack. And, of course, the woodshed losses to TCU and FSU left an impression.



I know it is a coaching catch-22 to decide when to give backups reps. You have to maintain consistency and continuity for the starters in preparation for the next game. Frequently you have to be conservative with what you allow the backups to do so that you don't unnecessarily risk the momentum and the outcome of a game, and your team's confidence (case in point--Even though we beat USU pretty handily, I still felt like that game was a lot closer than the score showed because USU imposed their will on us toward the end of the game and seized back momentum). Also, there are a good number of us who are constantly calling for the best players to be on the field, and we, the fans prefer a good blowout to be preserved.



All that being said, there really is no excuse for not evaluating the players better and having a good idea a year in advance who has been consistent and who is making plays in practice or on the scout team, etc. so that we don't have to hold try-outs for QBs or for 5 different tight ends during the season.

Bib, nice thread. I think its mostly right on. The sad part about Nelson, is that whether his "take the game over with his running" was a result of undeveloped, untested talent, poor play calling or just his happy-feet; his gutsy style, trying to win it with his legs, with that mid-size body was doomed to injury. Its one thing to put a team on the back and arm of a QB but to put it on his body--which was not exactly Tebow size, and his attitude of giving it his all, he was headed toward injury. Which supports your theory. Because post-Nelson injury, enter Jake. Lark or Munns werent ready so a true freshman was thrown into battle--talent succession failure: not even near enough time to develop.

I know ball and football are not equal, but Dave Rose does an excellent job developing his young players early in the year so at years end he can rely on them during games if necessary and they are much better prepared to take over starting/key roles the following year. He develops depth and it has made a huge difference in bball. Of course managing 12-15 guys is a lot easier than 80 guys, especially with te mission turnstile.



Bronco has done exceptionally with managing missions and developing a program we can all be proud to be a part of regardless of wins and losses. Bronco has been a great leader and has tried to give his coaches autonomy, unfortunately some of those coaches either couldn't handle their job or just aren't good enough at it. Bronco should not have to oversee everything being done on offense, defense and special teams and micromanage. Why have coordinators if they can't do the job. Obviously the defensive coordinator wasn't living up to expectations. We'll see about the OC.



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Richard Wilson should have the scout team TE last year instead of working as a LB.

I agree with part of this, but part of it is just not correct.

Cougarbib2 wrote:
Talent Succession Failure -



But imagine that Anae, or Doman, or Bronco had the foresight last year to say "If we don't stick Nelson in here this season, frequently, in special circumstances i.e. wildcat, or to mop up in blow-out losses or blow-out wins, and let him go full out and throw the ball and run it and see if he has the stuff or not before the supporting cast all departs, we will have a big stinking QB controversy next year and will have problems in the team and with the fans no matter what we do". Had they done that, we would all know Nelson actually is a DI QB that can make enough of the throws to lead this team - or we would know clearly that he is not.



I almost forgot Kyle Van Noy. He shoulda been here a year ago, gotten experience a year ago, and started this season.

Well, Bronco and Co. had all last season in practice and limited game situations to review Riley. And we also had some games this year, including the 2nd half of the AFA game. And guess what? Riley still is a sub par down the field passer (good enough on short routes, though) with a run first mentality. He'd be perfect for an option like attack--which we don't have. Go back and watch the AFA game for a reminder. Perhaps you'd prefer Jake to run it 21 times himself, too, right?



As to Van Noy? What? We are lucky to even have the kid after what happened. DUI and all. No idea how he should have had a year in when it is clear we are fortunate he got it together to qualify in teh first place.



As to the rest, I think I have posted on this in various other threads. The 2004 and 2005 classes are thin. It gets better from 2006 and beyond. We still have lost guys, mostly on DLine and DBs, but overall, our depth will improve greatly starting next year. Just need the QB to get up to speed now. Didn;t help that Lark waited a year to serve either.

Lawboy - you missed the whole point. I will focus on Nelson since that is such an emotional issue with you - then Van Noy which is simpler to explain my point.



Nelson - if they had given Nelson the reins a number of times last year and let him play all out rather than hand off and take a knee, surrounded by very good tight ends, receivers, and backs, he either would have performed or not and developed or not, with no room for excuses, and it would have been obvious what his on-the-field potential was or was not last December and if he hadn't shown it last year go full on with Heaps in the Spring without dividing the team. If he did show it - then you go with Nelson and redshirt Heaps and get Lark ready to backup Nelson. All would have been easier to decide before Spring.



Van Noy and 3 players from Hawaii with the last name Teo and Unga hurt the program by making poor personal choices. But yes I am glad Van Noy fought his way back and hope he manages to stay out of trouble . Van Noy is a very good player, that I wish had been ready week 1 and would have been had he been here last year. I wish Unga was here. I wish some sober Teos were here to help out at linebacker and safety - especially Manti teo with a year of experience. The linebackers would have been in great shape sooner. We would have another choice or two for Safety. And, iroinically, the soberest Teo aparently was not willing to switch to defense.



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I can't edit on my iPhone so I will fix the typos when I get to my PC. "beverage" was supposed to be "manages to stay" out of trouble nut it is ironic that autocorrect changed my typing to beverage.



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Another helpful player would be a DE that shall not be named who is started at UW as a freshman.



Also if the NCAA would have allowed Kavengia to play this year without siting out like the other USC transfers.



Too bad Bills decided to go on a mission...



Too bad we apparently didn't recruit (or mismanaged timing) any TE's for three years since the only non-freshman TE is a walk-on who probably is only on the team because of his namesake.



Too bad there apparently aren't more than two leaders on the team (one on offense and one on defense) based on the fact that we elected to only go with two captains. I think anytime your quarterback isn't a captain is a problem for the offense. Its understandable to have one year without your quarterback the captain when you have new ones coming in, but if you Heaps or Nelson aren't captains next year I see that as becoming a problem.

I think recruiting has remedied much of this, and depth won't be an issue next year and after. We are just now feeling the pain from the last Crowton year and his recruiting messes, and the approach Bronco had to take with recruiting in 2005 and 2006 in order to get the program in order. It was character over raw talent, and had to be. With a culture in place, we are chasing mroe talent now because we have better systems in place to help those types of guys make it at BYU now. I think we are lucky to have not felt in before this year. But Beck, Hall, Collie, Unga, Pitta and George basically are the reasons we didn't.



Youth still might be an issue next year, but not depth. I think the coaches are showing great restraint with the redshirts they used this year. We have some talented guys that are sitting and could help us. But that does not change the fact that we are getting very little from the TE position, not enough from the WR position and our QB is acting like a true freshman this year. Those issues should be worked out next year, and if not, then the coaching will really be on the hot spot for that.

It will be better in those areas next year - OL - may go the other direction. I hope the late start of this unit results in Reynolds not going in this year's draft. The offense, in total will be improved week by week and even more after an off-season to think about what they learned and to work on it. But they won't be playing like seasoned veterans by any stretch and even though we are in great shape with running backs returning - so far, I have not seen NFL written on any of the ones getting PT this year. Maybe they will look NFL(ish ) eventually (Juice), too early to tell and not next year.



Keeping in mind that even our NFL(ish) backs of the past never make it big in the NFL, and looking at the schedule some of you have dreamed of and I have had nightmares about, hope that 2011 gets finalized with a little frosting on a couple of cupcakes and not with another stretch game on the road. The schedule will be brutal early for this team iirc.



So no, I don't expect USU, even early in the season before their lack of depth gets exposed by injury, to waltz into Provo and blow us out next year. Even if they moved the game to Logan to be nice and prove a point, I think BYU would prevail. But some of those other games will be a problem and Utah will be even better next year than this year. Don't get me wrong - Utah is a little overrated this year and I don't see them in a BCS Bowl kicking Albama's butt this year - unless they are (ie anything is possible).

Shoulda red-shirted George. We have no targets on 3rd down because we have no tight ends. I'm sure the coaches banked on Unga coming back, but that one was not their fault. George not being red-shirted was, however.