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Have we come full circle?

by Cougarfan87 · 10/19/2010

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Cougarfan87
BYU's offense was invented and implemented in the late 70's when defenses were built to stop the power running attacks of Oklahoma, Nebraska, Michigan, etc. The linebackers built for stopping the power run were not effective in pass coverage. So BYU could play with any team in the nation because the defenses they were facing were not capable of stopping BYU's pass happy offense (admittedly we took some lumps too, but in the late 70's and early 80's, BYU's O was pretty unstoppable). Now that the spread, spread option, etc. has become the flavor of the day, and defenses are built with speed to stop the passing offenses, is it time for the return of Power I football? Wisonsin pounding it down the throat of Ohio State, and the big runs we tore off against TCU out of the I (and then for no reason abandoned) seem to indicate that with a power running game, we could run through a lot of defenses built for speed.



Just curious if we have come full circle and will not start seeing offenses move toward the power running game to take advantage of undersized, but faster defenses.
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SpiffCoug
It is an interesting idea and there is probably some merit to it. We become cutting edge again, by doing what no one else is doing now and what everyone was doing then.
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Y12
I don't like using Wisconsin. That was one game.



Wisconsin needs to play in a National Championship game before I will believe that going back to the power run game might work.



We ripped up OU's top 10 defense last year.



The problem is that we think things will be just as easy as the 70s and 80s, that somehow those years give us some right to 10 win seasons if we are living right.



If we had been more serious about the quest for perfection, meaning, not getting complacent then we wouldn't let other teams ambush us. Anyone in the coaching profession should know that "any team on any given week ..." so even if we beat TCU and Utah two years in a row, we need to be ready for a back lash from them. We need to work for double digit point wins, not single score barn burners.



We need to respect the name of the program. Florida State is Florida State, even if Bobby Bowden hadn't won 10 games in almost a decade, they play with pride, especially early in the season, and are not going to give a game to BYU because they are ranked in the top 10. So what if a name program is having a down year, until BYU beats them, they are still better than BYU and we should be giving the same effort to beat an unranked name program as we would a ranked name program.
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runbyu1
Great post. I've been thinking and wondering the same things. And yet, it's so sad because we've lost our advantage and because a passing attack is so much more fun!
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Y 4 Ever
runbyu1 wrote:
Great post. I've been thinking and wondering the same things. And yet, it's so sad because we've lost our advantage and because a passing attack is so much more fun!


I actually thoroughly enjoyed the SDSU game and our offensive game plan. I could get behind a power-run offense - especially for this season.
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Lawboy
In the NFL, guys are both fast and large. So it is both, which is why the NFL is about precision, especially in the passing game. It is also why SEC teams are given more respect, because they have massive guys that can run, typically.



I just think we can play a pro style offense with Jake and do better. With the 2010 team, running between the tackles has worked, and it can set up the pass for us. Moving forward, I like seeing what it could do for us because we have the offensive line players to make it work. Look at the recruits we have had in the O line the last 4 years--they are absolutely MASSIVE. We can power run it or pass it behind a line like that.
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QuarterbackU
Y12 wrote:
I don't like using Wisconsin. That was one game.



Wisconsin needs to play in a National Championship game before I will believe that going back to the power run game might work.



We ripped up OU's top 10 defense last year.



The problem is that we think things will be just as easy as the 70s and 80s, that somehow those years give us some right to 10 win seasons if we are living right.



If we had been more serious about the quest for perfection, meaning, not getting complacent then we wouldn't let other teams ambush us. Anyone in the coaching profession should know that "any team on any given week ..." so even if we beat TCU and Utah two years in a row, we need to be ready for a back lash from them. We need to work for double digit point wins, not single score barn burners.



We need to respect the name of the program. Florida State is Florida State, even if Bobby Bowden hadn't won 10 games in almost a decade, they play with pride, especially early in the season, and are not going to give a game to BYU because they are ranked in the top 10. So what if a name program is having a down year, until BYU beats them, they are still better than BYU and we should be giving the same effort to beat an unranked name program as we would a ranked name program.


two things: 1. Wisconsin did not use its power running game in one game, they've been doing it for years and years and years remember Ron Daine. OSU knew what what going to happen and they got punched in the mouth. Good for Wisconsin. 2. I agree with you completely on FSU. the thing that bothers me is that Bronco admitted several times that he overlooked FSU last year. If we could keep have kept our heads on straight last year we may have been able to beat TCU AT HOME with Game Day and made some real noise. Every chance we have had to take the next step, has failed. We have to start performing in those situations. Every chance Utah and BSU have gotten, they've taken full advantage. Same goes for TCU with the exception of the loss to BSU in their bowl game last year.
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SpiffCoug
Y12 wrote:
We ripped up OU's top 10 defense last year.

Yep, we ripped them to the tune of:

14 points (we averaged 35.5 in 2009)

17 first downs (we averaged 22 in 2009)

28 yards rushing (we averaged 146 in 2009)

329 yards passing (we averaged 281 in 2009)

147.99 passer rating (we averaged 160.71 in 2009)

357 total yards (we averaged 427 in 2009)

2 lost fumbles (we averaged 1.1 in 2009)

2 interceptions (we averaged 1.1 in 2009)

10 penalties (we averaged 7.2 in 2009)

47.1 % 3rd down conversion (we averaged 55.6% in 2009)



So we beat our season average in ONE offensive category and we ripped them up? We beat OU because they were even worse offensively. They got just 15 first downs, converted only 2 of 11 (18.2%) on third down and had a passer rating of 121.72. It was a defensive struggle that we came out on to of because Bronco knows how to win close games (14-5 in games decided by 7 or less including the last 13).
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Cougarfan87
A good power running game would shorten the game, which would help out our defense. It is the kind of thing I think Bronco would really get behind. If you become known as a great power running team, that really opens up the play-actions, reverses, and trick plays for big yards down field. I don't know. It's just something I have been thinking about lately as I see more and more teams downsizing for speed. Those athletes with great size and speed are rare, and make up the NFL rosters, but do not fill out most college teams we would be playing.



Although, I am curious how our future nationwide schedule might influence the offensive scheme we run.
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mizzoucoug
Heck, we're practically already running the pathetic Nebraska vs UT 2009 offense--run all 3 downs and if you don't get it that's fine, just trust in your D to make stops and win the field position battle approach. This season is a bust and Heaps hasn't shown much of anything except for a few moments during home games. Might as well try something new--no more of this "ex&*$&%^&ion" of the same sorry offensive scheme BS!
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jonnylingo
Cougarfan87 wrote:
BYU's offense was invented and implemented in the late 70's when defenses were built to stop the power running attacks of Oklahoma, Nebraska, Michigan, etc. The linebackers built for stopping the power run were not effective in pass coverage. So BYU could play with any team in the nation because the defenses they were facing were not capable of stopping BYU's pass happy offense (admittedly we took some lumps too, but in the late 70's and early 80's, BYU's O was pretty unstoppable). Now that the spread, spread option, etc. has become the flavor of the day, and defenses are built with speed to stop the passing offenses, is it time for the return of Power I football? Wisonsin pounding it down the throat of Ohio State, and the big runs we tore off against TCU out of the I (and then for no reason abandoned) seem to indicate that with a power running game, we could run through a lot of defenses built for speed.



Just curious if we have come full circle and will not start seeing offenses move toward the power running game to take advantage of undersized, but faster defenses.


Very intersting post. I think for the rest of this year at the very least it is the way to go. keep the ball out of hte other team's hands for as long as possible and slowly grind out some yardage only forcing jake to throw every now and then to keep the defense honest.
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Lawboy
It works for Alabama is all I know. They can throw it well enough, but they are going to hold onto the ball, wear you out, and dominate you physically late on both sides of the ball. This has been a winning formula since football was first played. And it actually plays to our strengths this year.
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QuarterbackU
the main problem with this change in offensive identity is that our run offense was generally set up by the pass and we don't really have the offensive line for a power running attack. Our offensive line is very good at pass protection but in my opinion they are a bit slow for a power running style. We are terrible at screen passes to the RBs because our Lineman are so slow. I say we stick with the BYU offense that made Beck and Hall a star and make it click the next few games agaisnt the weak schedule. Look up Max's stats verses TCU the last two years and against Utah and you'll have no problem with what Heaps did against TCU last Saturday. We need to stick with the plan. I did love the fact that we started dumping down alot more to the backs ala the Curtis Brown days. Max sort of went away from that when he had Pitta now it looks to be back in the offense.
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Cougarfan87
QuarterbackU wrote:
the main problem with this change in offensive identity is that our run offense was generally set up by the pass and we don't really have the offensive line for a power running attack. Our offensive line is very good at pass protection but in my opinion they are a bit slow for a power running style. We are terrible at screen passes to the RBs because our Lineman are so slow. I say we stick with the BYU offense that made Beck and Hall a star and make it click the next few games agaisnt the weak schedule. Look up Max's stats verses TCU the last two years and against Utah and you'll have no problem with what Heaps did against TCU last Saturday. We need to stick with the plan. I did love the fact that we started dumping down alot more to the backs ala the Curtis Brown days. Max sort of went away from that when he had Pitta now it looks to be back in the offense.




I think the effectivness depends on the type of running play. For example, out of the power I, Kariya (or whoever was running) gained 9 yards, 4 yards, and another 9 yards. But the draws were not effective at all for DiLuigi. So, my take is that if the O line is allowed to fly off of the line of scrimmage and make contact with the defensive line, we are going to get good yards on running plays because defenses are not built to stop those kinds of running attacks--unless you are in the SEC. If the Oline is not flying at the snap of the ball to knock a defensive player out of the way, we are not getting the yards because defenses are too quick to peel off the blocks and get to the runner. If they are knocked out of the play by the Oline, that isn't a problem. So, we need to think power run, with throw over the middle off of play action. That would be a great recipe to give Jake confidence over the next four games. Slinging it around the field right now won't work until he and the receivers get some more confidence. See Utah State. They didn't have a great defense, and yet we were still kept in check offensively. I don't see how we are just going to dictate a disfunctional offense against any of our remaining MWC foes either, unless we establish a rhythm first like we did in the SDSU game. I still think Jake should be throwing out from under center to help establish his rhythm.
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Cougarfan87
See, we do have some pull with Bronco. He is following my idea. :crazy: http://www.cougarupdate.com/article_link.html?id=-13934352&source=rss In all seriousness, I do wonder how often the sportswriter's of today get their "good ideas for a piece" from the forums. Also, I am not taking credit for what everyone with half a brain could see in the TCU game.
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CAFB_04-12
This is a very interesting thought. BYU was certainly more effective running from the I-formation against SDSU. I think TCU will be the anomaly. They were dang good.
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SpiffCoug
I said this in another thread and it echos what others have said. BYU would do well to run more plays out of the same formation. Give the defense more to think about because we're not as predictable due to the formation and personnel group tipping our hand.



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BroncoBot
Sure, running the ball isn't as sexy as passing 3 out of 4 plays. But I'd love to see BYU winning games again and punishing teams.



I'd also love to have the ball 45 minutes of the game.
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mizzoucoug
Cougarfan87 wrote:
See, we do have some pull with Bronco. He is following my idea. :crazy: http://www.cougarupdate.com/article_link.html?id=-13934352&source=rss In all seriousness, I do wonder how often the sportswriter's of today get their "good ideas for a piece" from the forums. Also, I am not taking credit for what everyone with half a brain could see in the TCU game.


LOL, I guarantee it. I've seen too many instances of this to think otherwise.
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Mars
Y12 wrote:
Wisconsin needs to play in a National Championship game before I will believe that going back to the power run game might work. We ripped up OU's top 10 defense last year.

14 points isn't "ripping". OU's offense was just worse, due to a weak rebuilt OL relying on a poor TE that couldn't quit false-starting to save their lives. IMO.
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