Archived Topic

New Defense

by YBrit · 10/8/2010

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Y
YBrit
twitter.com/gregwrubell





KSL on sunday will go over the 3-3-5. Greg mentions a couple things about the great 3-3-5. But preludes it to: BYU will not ever use it.





Hmm...







I propose anything will be better to use than taking it up the rear from crappy teams.
C
Cougs_Rule
OOOHHHH Good idea! Lets run a defense that perennially we have our worst, weakest players and most trouble recruiting and keeping enrolled--the defensive backfield (RIch and Johnson excluded).
S
Schmoe
We tried running the 3-3-5 when Bronco was the DC, it went horribly and our strongest unit, the Linebackers, absolutely HATED it.
B
BYULV
Besides, I think rocky long may know a thing or two about the 3-3-5. Sdsu probably not the best team to surprise with the 3-3-5.



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Mars
Schmoe wrote:
We tried running the 3-3-5 when Bronco was the DC, it went horribly and our strongest unit, the Linebackers, absolutely HATED it.

You think our LBs are stronger than our DBs right now?
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Schmoe
Mars wrote:
We tried running the 3-3-5 when Bronco was the DC, it went horribly and our strongest unit, the Linebackers, absolutely HATED it.

You think our LBs are stronger than our DBs right now?


At this very moment, probably not, but we are deeper at LB, they have been our strongest unit in the past, and will be our strongest unit in the future. Our base defense should always be the 3-4, with other package options.
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Brayden Green
Schmoe wrote:
Schmoe wrote:
We tried running the 3-3-5 when Bronco was the DC, it went horribly and our strongest unit, the Linebackers, absolutely HATED it.

You think our LBs are stronger than our DBs right now?


At this very moment, probably not, but we are deeper at LB, they have been our strongest unit in the past, and will be our strongest unit in the future. Our base defense should always be the 3-4, with other package options.


The 3-3-5 would be better suited for our talent this year, and the next. Probably the next after that, too.



Our linebackers are torrid this year, and just think what happens after JP moves on. He is the only one out of the 4 that can even play linebacker at a D-1 level right now. KVN will get there, but that is all we have in the pipes. Anyone else is just stop-gapping.



At the DB position we have Rich this year, Bradley, Logan, Eason, Sampson commited, Everett next year, J'ray, Bills coming back off a mission.



Can you even name our two deep off the top of your head at linebacker?
L
Lawboy
Next year we we'll have Kaveinga, Atkinson back from injury (hopefully), and Stout to man the middle. Add Iona Pritchard back, along with Jorgensen and Leng-Wei, and we will be fine. That does not include 2010 or 2011 HS recruits. We need Frazier and KVN to take over one backer while Pendleton has the other, and hopefully stays healthy. Could use some depth behind him.



I am more concerned about our D-line than any other position. Attrition from kids not making it or getting booted has killed us this year and really been an issue. Stopping the run starts with the front 4 then backers. Not been good this year.
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bball
When linebackers are making too many tackles, it means the down linemen are not. When the secondary is making too many tackles, it means both the down linemen and the linebackers are not making tackles. BYU has played primarily running teams so far, not a pure passing team in the bunch, and BYU has gotten killed. I think this is why Bronco fired Hill and took over. If it was just a talent issue, then firing Hill would not accomplish anything. The fact he fired Hill, to me, says the talent is there---we'll see.



Same thing goes for the offense, although there are likely other issues there, and it's kind of tough to hire a new OC in mid-year, and begin a new offense in mid-year, that clearly makes no sense. But I would bet, if the offense does not improve dramatically from here on out, Anae is gone, Bronco will bring in somebody who can generate some offense.



BYU has the #1 QB recruit in the nation, an experienced and talented Oline, experienced receivers, and capable runners--and we can't score, can't sustain drives, can't catch passes...somebody will pay for this. If BYU does not go to a bowl game (not likely this year), I predict Anae will be fired following the Utah game.
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CougarPeasant
Lawboy wrote:
Next year we we'll have Kaveinga, Atkinson back from injury (hopefully), and Stout to man the middle. Add Iona Pritchard back, along with Jorgensen and Leng-Wei, and we will be fine. That does not include 2010 or 2011 HS recruits. We need Frazier and KVN to take over one backer while Pendleton has the other, and hopefully stays healthy. Could use some depth behind him.



I am more concerned about our D-line than any other position. Attrition from kids not making it or getting booted has killed us this year and really been an issue. Stopping the run starts with the front 4 then backers. Not been good this year.


Good reearch. Here's the list for next season: Starters--Pendleton, Kavienga, Stout, and Van Noy; backups-- Sorensen, Alisa, Pritchard, Hadley, Keoshian and Beck.



That starting group should be as good as any group in the west. And there are 6 solid players to rotate through, not to mention Pulsipher and Hedley, who come in as freshmen next fall. Lawboy has pointed out that the 2004-2006 classes were weak and with little depth to help this team, which is evident in this season's performance and relying on mostly underclassmen or players who came in 2007 and later.



The talent will get swell the ranks in time. It's just unfortunate that this season turned out to be weaker than we expected. Of course, coaching is a factor too, which is why we have a new/old DC leading the defence on Saturday.
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Brayden Green
I can agree with that, Law and everyone else. On paper they look good next year, but they aren't close to good this year. Most people don't understand that in a 3-4 it doesn't matter much what the defensive line does, it is all on the linebackers. This year they are terrible, and they are being put in bad positions too. They need to not just be good in a 3-4 but great. Everything you do centers around their speed and physicality. They are to blame for not stopping the run, they are to blame for not getting to the qb. The DB's have been good with the exception of the Uale/Stevens combo.



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Brayden Green
And let me just add that I think the playcalling has been terrible for them, and they haven't been put in positions to excel (blitz and stunts, anyone?) But that still doesn't excuse them for being DEAD LAST in the nation against the run.



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Y
YBrit
Go back and watch the 2008 ucla game. Tell me what defense we used.





To save time: 3-3-5

Score: 59-0.
C
Cougs_Rule
BlueIsBetter wrote:
I can agree with that, Law and everyone else. On paper they look good next year, but they aren't close to good this year. Most people don't understand that in a 3-4 it doesn't matter much what the defensive line does, it is all on the linebackers. This year they are terrible, and they are being put in bad positions too. They need to not just be good in a 3-4 but great. Everything you do centers around their speed and physicality. They are to blame for not stopping the run, they are to blame for not getting to the qb. The DB's have been good with the exception of the Uale/Stevens combo.



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I'm guessing you really didnt mean "it doesnt matter much what the defensive line does."

What do you think is the key to stopping the run? Better yet, what allows the LB's to hit their gaps and make tackles? Answer: The D linemen are holding their ground against one and usually two linemen. If the O linemen are getting upfield that means disaster for a young LB corps and success for RB and running QB's--ITS WHY WE ARE DEAD LAST IN FBS rush defense.
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Cougarbib
If our offense got even close to having an even TOP, opponents would be getting 2-4 less possessions per game which would cut back 60-180 yards per game and the defense would look mediocre, like it actually is, instead of looking absolutely horrible, which, IMHO, it Isn't. The offense has been horrible.



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BroncoBot
Cougarbib2 wrote:
If our offense got even close to having an even TOP, opponents would be getting 2-4 less possessions per game which would cut back 60-180 yards per game and the defense would look mediocre, like it actually is, instead of looking absolutely horrible, which, IMHO, it Isn't. The offense has been horrible.



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If the defense didn't allow teams to drive the length of the field every possession they could save themselves a lot of criticism as well. It's a vicious cycle. Look at Florida the first couple of weeks. They would have lost a lot of games if their defense wasn't such a beast.



I agree with you bib, just playing devils advocate.
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Brayden Green
dmcougar wrote:
I can agree with that, Law and everyone else. On paper they look good next year, but they aren't close to good this year. Most people don't understand that in a 3-4 it doesn't matter much what the defensive line does, it is all on the linebackers. This year they are terrible, and they are being put in bad positions too. They need to not just be good in a 3-4 but great. Everything you do centers around their speed and physicality. They are to blame for not stopping the run, they are to blame for not getting to the qb. The DB's have been good with the exception of the Uale/Stevens combo.



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I'm guessing you really didnt mean "it doesnt matter much what the defensive line does."

What do you think is the key to stopping the run? Better yet, what allows the LB's to hit their gaps and make tackles? Answer: The D linemen are holding their ground against one and usually two linemen. If the O linemen are getting upfield that means disaster for a young LB corps and success for RB and running QB's--ITS WHY WE ARE DEAD LAST IN FBS rush defense.


No, no it's not.



(FYI I played DE in both a 4-3 and a 3-4 stunt, and also played OLB against option running teams)



So I wasn't belittling the D-line or their effort. What I was referring to is people's idea on multiple threads that if we aren't getting to the qb and stopping the run, it is somehow the D-lines fault. In a 3-4 it isn't. The defensive lines job in a 3-4 is to engage/occupy lineman and try not to get "led" or pushed around. You are right, that they try to create gaps for linebackers to fill. The D line is doing a good job out there, especially Fuga when he was in. I'm sure there are plays here and there where they get dominated, but they are already set up to get dominated. People are complaining about sacks from the Dlineman, and they don't understand that a 3-4 Dlineman will never ever get a sack unless the qb is in the pocket for 12 seconds, or unless someone screws up (or more than one, more likely). In a 3-4 it is all about the linebackers... They get pressure on the quarterback from the outside (and sometimes hit inside gaps), they hit the gaps for the run, they ALWAYS have the assignment for a running qb, they are the make or break aspect of the defense. We have had good linebackers, and that has worked in the past. We don't have good linebackers this year: Our best is a beat-up Pendleton that doesn't set the edge, even against tight ends. After him, nobody is good. Hunter is below-average, Frazier misses 10 assignments a game, and doesn't hit anyone, KVN is gifted - but young, and hasn't been given time to develop/is not ready yet. I mean after JP, who is our next best lineman? Our MLB's are bad... just bad, and the OLB position isn't much better.



I wasn't posting against the D-line, I was actually defending them. Everyone is to blame for the D being so bad, but if you really want to pin it on one crew, look no further than the "two hand touch" linebackers.
D
Ddawg
bball wrote:
When linebackers are making too many tackles, it means the down linemen are not. When the secondary is making too many tackles, it means both the down linemen and the linebackers are not making tackles. BYU has played primarily running teams so far, not a pure passing team in the bunch, and BYU has gotten killed. I think this is why Bronco fired Hill and took over. If it was just a talent issue, then firing Hill would not accomplish anything. The fact he fired Hill, to me, says the talent is there---we'll see.



Same thing goes for the offense, although there are likely other issues there, and it's kind of tough to hire a new OC in mid-year, and begin a new offense in mid-year, that clearly makes no sense. But I would bet, if the offense does not improve dramatically from here on out, Anae is gone, Bronco will bring in somebody who can generate some offense.



BYU has the #1 QB recruit in the nation, an experienced and talented Oline, experienced receivers, and capable runners--and we can't score, can't sustain drives, can't catch passes...somebody will pay for this. If BYU does not go to a bowl game (not likely this year), I predict Anae will be fired following the Utah game.




+1 I think Bronco is taking a hard look @ Anae after the 2 QB debacle, and Zero Offense game after game. Uness Anae turns things around - dramatically (that doesn't mean he HAS to win - but begin moving the cahins w/ consistency), I believe he will be gone.
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SpiffCoug
Ddawg wrote:
I think Bronco is taking a hard look @ Anae after the 2 QB debacle, and Zero Offense game after game. Uness Anae turns things around - dramatically (that doesn't mean he HAS to win - but begin moving the cahins w/ consistency), I believe he will be gone.

Agreed.
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