Archived Topic

Should the church drop BYU sports?

by taekwondave · 10/3/2010

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taekwondave
I made the mortal mistake of reading cougarboard today. Some Aggie fan who is LDS said he thought the church should drop BYU sports because too often it can shed a negative light on the church through over-zealous behavior.



Now, obviously at first I wanted to punch him, but I continued to read and he had a couple of good points. I don't think the church should drop sports at BYU, but I DO think there are some ways they could take the reigns in turning up the sportsmanship notch a little bit. That is, if indeed they wish to use BYU football as a chance for positive public exposure, which I've heard is a big reason for keeping it. I mean, it's not so we Mormons have someone to root for. Were BYU sports not around we'd all find other teams for other reasons. But considering the mission of the church and the fact that BYU sports does REFLECT on the church (some say it REPRESENTS the church. I disagree with that. Reflect is a better word to me.), it might be wise to take steps to reaffirm Christ-like love (i.e. sportsmanship) at games.



Now I think that prayer at home games is good, but I kind of wish whoever gave it would quote what Uchtdorf just said in his talk every time; the part about all of God's children wearing the same jersey. As of now the common prayers are just to bless our troops and keep everyone from getting injured. Sometimes someone says something about sportsmanship, but that word has been stretched to the broadest limits of interpretation even by yours truly here :P For some reason that word doesn't carry much meaning for me, and I suspect many others from what I've seen and heard at our games.



Something else I would like to see is some outward sign of brotherhood from our team offered to the other team before the game. Something along the lines of our whole team lined up at mid-field, helmets off, hands extended to shake the opponents' hands or something similar. Just some kind of outward sign, whether it be our team buying a super cool gift for their team to take home, or providing visiting teams with coupons for a nearby pizza place or SOMETHING. You know what I mean?



And ESPECIALLY when playing Utah. I would hope we would go above and beyond what we do for any other team when we play them. Why? Well, when you return love for hate, like the light dispels the darkness it can change the nature of a relationship almost overnight. Even some kind of friendly wager between teams, like the loser agrees to put on the opponents jersey after the game and take pictures with the owner of it. That would make the game extra intense, as nobody wants to wear their rivals uni, but the intensity could relax after the game when the loser of the contest shows a ton of humility and plays along and does it. When you're humble towards your opponent, they can't help but like you more. Stuff like that could do wonders for our image.



I hate the hate with the Utes and I would love for our team to do some game time sign of good will towards them. (You see, I LOVED the haka, but I can see how that seemed obnoxious and inflammatory to some other teams. I didn't really realize that until all the Polys at Utah came out in 2008 and disrupted it. I was pissed at them for it, but in hindsight maybe a pre-game war cry wasn't the best way to get people to like us.)



Anyway, I'm sure if I sat around and thought about it I could come up with some other things that would make playing BYU, win or lose, an overall good experience that causes no ill will for our opponents. I definitely don't think we should ditch sports, but coaches and administrators could probably do more in regards to pre-game and post-game traditions, etc that would help dissipate ill will between the players of both teams, as well as the fans of both teams. I would LOVE for people, after losing to BYU 42-0 say, "You know, we lost to them, but they're just so dang...LIKABLE."



That would be cool.
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snoscythe
If that choice was even on the radar, I doubt the Board of Directors would green-light Holmoe and Samuelson to do whatever they wanted in regards to independence and realignment. If they were thinking about it, why let them buy out of existing contracts (the MTN) and enter into new multi-year contracts that they would just have to buy out later when they drop athletics?



That thought isn't even on the radar.



Yes, as President Hinckley said, BYU could do without athletics. It could probably do without a business management program and law school too. That doesn't mean it's going to get axed.
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CAFB_04-12
The same argument could be made for dropping the law school, since some lawyers turn out bad and do bad things.



I do like the idea of a pregame handshake with helmets off.
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Ddawg
Q: Should Notre Dame drop sports because it might affect their Christian efforts & Christian image????? Beyond silly.



This is a ridiculous discussion!!!! Give me a break. Screw the damn Yewts!!!!!

:crazy:
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YBrit
This is a different matter but what's positive exposure when your church's team loses to crappy teams?



Exposure was a bad thing with Crowton, and is a bad thing when we are awful. We'd better get good with ESPN exposing ourselves to the country.
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taekwondave
YBrit wrote:
This is a different matter but what's positive exposure when your church's team loses to crappy teams?



Exposure was a bad thing with Crowton, and is a bad thing when we are awful. We'd better get good with ESPN exposing ourselves to the country.


HAHA, I really hope ESPN doesn't expose ourselves ;)
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taekwondave
snoscythe wrote:
If that choice was even on the radar, I doubt the Board of Directors would green-light Holmoe and Samuelson to do whatever they wanted in regards to independence and realignment. If they were thinking about it, why let them buy out of existing contracts (the MTN) and enter into new multi-year contracts that they would just have to buy out later when they drop athletics?



That thought isn't even on the radar.



Yes, as President Hinckley said, BYU could do without athletics. It could probably do without a business management program and law school too. That doesn't mean it's going to get axed.


Oh, I totally agree. I don't think it's on the radar. There is too much potential with BYU football, but as of right now (and my roommate and i were just talking about this) we may be getting EXPOSURE for the church, but we could do a lot more to ensure that it's POSITIVE EXPOSURE. Winning would help with that, I believe, so making the program as good as possible is vital, but I definitely think we could do some really cool things so that opponents walked away with a very favorable impression of the Church.
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Guest
taekwondave wrote:
If that choice was even on the radar, I doubt the Board of Directors would green-light Holmoe and Samuelson to do whatever they wanted in regards to independence and realignment. If they were thinking about it, why let them buy out of existing contracts (the MTN) and enter into new multi-year contracts that they would just have to buy out later when they drop athletics?



That thought isn't even on the radar.



Yes, as President Hinckley said, BYU could do without athletics. It could probably do without a business management program and law school too. That doesn't mean it's going to get axed.


Oh, I totally agree. I don't think it's on the radar. There is too much potential with BYU football, but as of right now (and my roommate and i were just talking about this) we may be getting EXPOSURE for the church, but we could do a lot more to ensure that it's POSITIVE EXPOSURE. Winning would help with that, I believe, so making the program as good as possible is vital, but I definitely think we could do some really cool things so that opponents walked away with a very favorable impression of the Church.


This is exactly why Bronco is head coach and Holmoe is AD. They, better than anyone, know how important it is to put forth the image of the church. It's also why football is 4th or 5th on the priority list.
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taekwondave
hawkwing wrote:
snoscythe wrote:
If that choice was even on the radar, I doubt the Board of Directors would green-light Holmoe and Samuelson to do whatever they wanted in regards to independence and realignment. If they were thinking about it, why let them buy out of existing contracts (the MTN) and enter into new multi-year contracts that they would just have to buy out later when they drop athletics?



That thought isn't even on the radar.



Yes, as President Hinckley said, BYU could do without athletics. It could probably do without a business management program and law school too. That doesn't mean it's going to get axed.


Oh, I totally agree. I don't think it's on the radar. There is too much potential with BYU football, but as of right now (and my roommate and i were just talking about this) we may be getting EXPOSURE for the church, but we could do a lot more to ensure that it's POSITIVE EXPOSURE. Winning would help with that, I believe, so making the program as good as possible is vital, but I definitely think we could do some really cool things so that opponents walked away with a very favorable impression of the Church.


This is exactly why Bronco is head coach and Holmoe is AD. They, better than anyone, know how important it is to put forth the image of the church. It's also why football is 4th or 5th on the priority list.


Agreed, but do you think they're doing enough? I mean, I can see how Bronco's priority list helps with recruiting the kind of player that won't get booted for d.u.i. and how much parents like his song, but overall do you think BYU does enough to give a favorable impression?
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Guest
taekwondave wrote:
taekwondave wrote:
If that choice was even on the radar, I doubt the Board of Directors would green-light Holmoe and Samuelson to do whatever they wanted in regards to independence and realignment. If they were thinking about it, why let them buy out of existing contracts (the MTN) and enter into new multi-year contracts that they would just have to buy out later when they drop athletics?



That thought isn't even on the radar.



Yes, as President Hinckley said, BYU could do without athletics. It could probably do without a business management program and law school too. That doesn't mean it's going to get axed.


Oh, I totally agree. I don't think it's on the radar. There is too much potential with BYU football, but as of right now (and my roommate and i were just talking about this) we may be getting EXPOSURE for the church, but we could do a lot more to ensure that it's POSITIVE EXPOSURE. Winning would help with that, I believe, so making the program as good as possible is vital, but I definitely think we could do some really cool things so that opponents walked away with a very favorable impression of the Church.


This is exactly why Bronco is head coach and Holmoe is AD. They, better than anyone, know how important it is to put forth the image of the church. It's also why football is 4th or 5th on the priority list.


Agreed, but do you think they're doing enough? I mean, I can see how Bronco's priority list helps with recruiting the kind of player that won't get booted for d.u.i. and how much parents like his song, but overall do you think BYU does enough to give a favorable impression?


Yes. But thats not to say that there aren't other ideas to implement.
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tripwire
Okay, please don't take this the wrong way. But as far as positive exposure and goodwill the church has a lot worse problems to worry about than the BYU football program.

I think BYU football is good because it shows mormons as normal people who do normal things like play a violent game like football.

But honestly I doubt many football fans think much about the church when they think BYU football. I am sure most know the affiliation but I doubt many care much.

After all how much do you think about Baptists when you see Baylor play?
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imuakahuku
tripwire wrote:
Okay, please don't take this the wrong way. But as far as positive exposure and goodwill the church has a lot worse problems to worry about than the BYU football program.

I think BYU football is good because it shows mormons as normal people who do normal things like play a violent game like football.

But honestly I doubt many football fans think much about the church when they think BYU football. I am sure most know the affiliation but I doubt many care much.

After all how much do you think about Baptists when you see Baylor play?


What you are forgetting are the comments and the "stories" that are done durning the games. You hear a lot of comments about missions, sacrifice, etc durning the games. And this will only get better as the games get more publicity. Add to that all the service projects and firesides that the players do. As for making people like you, you can't.
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Brayden Green
what I'm wondering Dave, is why do you start a thread, and argue both sides of it? Or spend 3 pages with 12 posts that are each 10 paragraphs long stating the same thing over and over again, and repeatedly telling people "you must have not read everything I typed on this matter (everything in this thread...etc.)" You must have too much time on your hands in those dorms. Find a girlie out there and take her to a movie or something...
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CannonCougar85
BlueIsBetter wrote:
what I'm wondering Dave, is why do you start a thread, and argue both sides of it? Or spend 3 pages with 12 posts that are each 10 paragraphs long stating the same thing over and over again, and repeatedly telling people "you must have not read everything I typed on this matter (everything in this thread...etc.)" You must have too much time on your hands in those dorms. Find a girlie out there and take her to a movie or something...

:lol: :lol:
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taekwondave
BlueIsBetter wrote:
what I'm wondering Dave, is why do you start a thread, and argue both sides of it? Or spend 3 pages with 12 posts that are each 10 paragraphs long stating the same thing over and over again, and repeatedly telling people "you must have not read everything I typed on this matter (everything in this thread...etc.)" You must have too much time on your hands in those dorms. Find a girlie out there and take her to a movie or something...


And yet you've read all of them :) Kettle, meet pot.



As to your first question, arguing both sides of it? Where did I argue both sides of it? I think it's pretty clear I do NOT think we should get rid of our sports, but that we should do some extra things to create more goodwill towards us as a church. How is that both sides again?



As for the dorms. I'm 27. As for the girl? Been dating her 11 months. Which is the reason I spend so much time on here like the rest of you married dudes. I'm not out chasing. Don't get personal dude.
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Brayden Green
taekwondave wrote:
what I'm wondering Dave, is why do you start a thread, and argue both sides of it? Or spend 3 pages with 12 posts that are each 10 paragraphs long stating the same thing over and over again, and repeatedly telling people "you must have not read everything I typed on this matter (everything in this thread...etc.)" You must have too much time on your hands in those dorms. Find a girlie out there and take her to a movie or something...


And yet you've read all of them :) Kettle, meet pot.



As to your first question, arguing both sides of it? Where did I argue both sides of it? I think it's pretty clear I do NOT think we should get rid of our sports, but that we should do some extra things to create more goodwill towards us as a church. How is that both sides again?



As for the dorms. I'm 27. As for the girl? Been dating her 11 months. Which is the reason I spend so much time on here like the rest of you married dudes. I'm not out chasing. Don't get personal dude.


Good for you. I mistook roomate for dorms. My bad.



I speed read most of your posts. (It is a skill that one can learn, kind of like your amazing speed - and that is not TIC. ) I retain somewhere around 80-90% of the context of your posts, and I see the same things over and over. Just because people disagree with you it doesn't mean they are right and you are wrong, and you have to argue vehemently against it. Sorry for getting personal, my friend. Just trying to give some help and I went about it the wrong way.
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Cougy_Monster
Love the sinner and hate the sin can be applied to all yewts with whom we come in contact.



It is sinful that they go/went to that school and cheer for that team (only during good seasons of course). But underneath it all they are just a stadium full of lost sheep. Lets be kind.
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taekwondave
imuakahuku wrote:
Okay, please don't take this the wrong way. But as far as positive exposure and goodwill the church has a lot worse problems to worry about than the BYU football program.

I think BYU football is good because it shows mormons as normal people who do normal things like play a violent game like football.

But honestly I doubt many football fans think much about the church when they think BYU football. I am sure most know the affiliation but I doubt many care much.

After all how much do you think about Baptists when you see Baylor play?


What you are forgetting are the comments and the "stories" that are done durning the games. You hear a lot of comments about missions, sacrifice, etc durning the games. And this will only get better as the games get more publicity. Add to that all the service projects and firesides that the players do. As for making people like you, you can't.


You know, I really believe you CAN make people like you. Whether we CARE to or not or whether we KNOW HOW to or not is often a different story. But you definitely CAN. Many previously unliked people that discover the basic principle behind it turn their haters into fans every day. In fact, when you know how, it's relatively easy to make people like you.



Here's a funny example for you: I didn't get to my current height 5'10" until my senior year of high school. Sophomore year I was barely breaching 5'3". I wasn't physically menacing but I had done martial arts since I was little and people didn't want to take the chance of losing a fight to a tiny ninja just the same. One day I did something stupid. A big kid with low self esteem was sitting at a table in one of my classes talking about a fight he was just in. It was like his third that week. I was overhearing him and picked up on his arrogance and decided to one-up him. He was about 6'2", 230 and dumb as rocks. I suddenly piped up and told him, "You clearly have no idea how to fight. Your ignorance is just dripping from your mouth." He sat there stunned for a minute, furrowed his brow and said, "Oh, and YOU know how to fight?" I cooly said, "It wouldn't take me but ten seconds to choke you out."



He couldn't believe it. "Prove it." He said. "Nah. You might scratch my face or scuff my shirt. You're boring."



Needless to say this guy did NOT like me after that. For two years I regretted that and avoided him every time I saw him. Senior year came around and I decided I was tired of him staring me down everywhere and wondering if I would indeed graduate in one piece so I decided to try something. Walked up to him one day and said, "Hey Brian. Saw your Jeep outside. Sick ride, bro. Is that a two inch lift?"



"Four."



"You do that yourself?"



"Yeah."



"That's AWESOME, bro. I don't know crap about cars. Have you seen the piece of garbage I'm driving?"



Cha-ching. We've been friends ever since



So yeah, you CAN get people to like you. But sometimes it takes swallowing a little pride and getting a little crafty.
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Italics
taekwondave wrote:
If that choice was even on the radar, I doubt the Board of Directors would green-light Holmoe and Samuelson to do whatever they wanted in regards to independence and realignment. If they were thinking about it, why let them buy out of existing contracts (the MTN) and enter into new multi-year contracts that they would just have to buy out later when they drop athletics?



That thought isn't even on the radar.



Yes, as President Hinckley said, BYU could do without athletics. It could probably do without a business management program and law school too. That doesn't mean it's going to get axed.


Oh, I totally agree. I don't think it's on the radar. There is too much potential with BYU football, but as of right now (and my roommate and i were just talking about this) we may be getting EXPOSURE for the church, but we could do a lot more to ensure that it's POSITIVE EXPOSURE. Winning would help with that, I believe, so making the program as good as possible is vital, but I definitely think we could do some really cool things so that opponents walked away with a very favorable impression of the Church.


Ain't gonna happen. Other schools and fans hate us. The only fans who end up liking us are the ones who are OUTSIDE of the MWC who visit our stadium.
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Italics
BlueIsBetter wrote:
what I'm wondering Dave, is why do you start a thread, and argue both sides of it? Or spend 3 pages with 12 posts that are each 10 paragraphs long stating the same thing over and over again, and repeatedly telling people "you must have not read everything I typed on this matter (everything in this thread...etc.)" You must have too much time on your hands in those dorms. Find a girlie out there and take her to a movie or something...


Welcome to taekwondave threads. Are you new here? ;)
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