I'm sorry, but enough is enough.

The past few weeks and countless hot topics (what a few weeks, huh!) have led to a lot of cross talk on the forum. It has been for the most part very respectable, with very few personal attacks poster to poster. Trolls have come and gone, and we are all better for not rattling cages.



What really bothers me lately, is the underlying hint and assumption that BYU fans are not good fans, and to a greater extent not good citizens.



BYU fans are some of the most loyal, understanding, and patient fans around.



We have consistently sold out our stadium for the last 7 + years, and we have one of the highest season ticket holder - per seat allowance in the nation. Sure fans are passionate, and that leads to a few morons, but without those fans you wouldn't have a coach or a program to root for. Even in the Crowton years, most of the seats were sold out, people just didn't want to go to the games. You didn't have to spend but 5 minutes to locate 5 groups of tickets, back in that day. A coaching job at BYU has better security than joining the Teachers Union. Lavelle should have gotten out of coaching at least 5 years earlier, but was allowed to stay. Crowton was miserable as a HC, and didn't even get booted, was asked to leave. And that had more to do with program dissension and alleged gang rapes than performance. We fill the seats, buy the programs, fight for seating because the two fat guys take up 4 seats, and live and die with the program.



For Bronco to blatantly and constantly disregard fans, and for people here to throw the fans under the bus as "fickle" etc, is just uncalled for.



Here is the underlying current that has been going on just in the last few days: I am leaving the poster names off, because I have nothing against any of you, and don't want to single people out. I just want to show the context of what has been going on here, and the "mob mentality" that many are buying into. Just read the posts for what they are, and if you posted some of them - again I'm not picking a fight - I'm just tired of hearing about how terrible I am/ we are as fans.

Here comes the mob that drove Chow out of town...



"Grab Your Torch and Pitchfork!"

I think we're seeing the same people who egged his house a few years ago come back out of the wood work.

I'd strongly suggest ignoring the vocal anti-Chambers group. There's only a small handful of them, but they just won't shut up and come out in force whenever he makes a mistake or we lose a game. They won't play nice, regardless of who they hurt, because they don't care. BYU unfortunately has a lot of fans like this, and I've tried to argue with them, but they refuse to change and the best course is to ignore them completely.

Linette - thank you for enduring our BYU idiots!!! My apologies!! Thank you for posting & all your input!!!

I sometimes wonder if we are no better than the Utah fans that poured beer over Max Hall's wife and family. Figuratively speaking, many posters are "pouring beer" all over our own player’s wives and families - what’s worse is that we are disparaging our own.

It looks like this Saturday's game is not even sold out. We are 1-2 and we are already having troubles selling out our stadium? That is a sad commentary on the state of many cougar fans. This is the fourth game of the season, and the best home game that we have left this year there is no reason why this shouldn't be sold out with people on waiting lists.

Bronco is a person with feelings and being booed at his first game, was classless by the fans and hurt his feelings. If you guys had been in his position, or if 30,000 people booed you when you messed up at your job, you would feel the same way. I don't think he is being overly sensative, he is being human. This is why I keep harping on not boing coaches, or players of our own team at LES, it is classless. I don't care how much Bronco is paid, he puts his heart and soul into putting a good product on the field and[b] if we boo it, it is a personal attack[/b].

if you are booing your own team, you are classless... it was still classless for fans to boo him in his first ever game as a Head coach, and he has never forgotten it... being booed by people that should be supporting a player on the field of play is a complete betrayal. It is classless.

LES is supposed to be where our team plays with the support of the fans, when fans boo the team it is a betrayal by the fans. It is a personal attack by fans that are supposed to be supporting the home team. I don't think that the average fan can comprehend what it would feel like being booed by the group of people that players and coaches expect to be supported by. It is not the same as being criticized by a boss at work. It would be similar to having your wife and kids telling you that you are horrible father and husband.

you can boo when an opposing player or coach does something disrespectful or ridiculous but I find it classless and bad taste to boo your own team no matter the circumstance. I was not at the BC game but I find it outrageous that our fans would boo our first year coach in his very first game.

Too many BYU fans are spoiled brats. How quickly we forget the long list of LDS or other coaches names that th eoutspoken BYU fans assumed would all give up their NFL or other jobs for the dream job of coaching BYU, living within the constraints involved, and catering to its spoiled fans. And then 1 by 1 the ydeclined. Even Kwhit spurned us. It came down to which assistant coach shall we promote. Wait a minute, that is how we got Lavell Edwards too.

I find it funny how the fans that feel it's okay to boo Broncos performance are the same fans that get offended when Bronco essentially boos their performance.

BYU has never had a black wide receiver from Florida. So the average fan has assumed he must be a burner. A super star in waiting… After all, he is black and from Florida…

But when things start going south - as they have this year - the fans look for people to blame. Who better to blame than someone who hasn't been meeting the expectations fans had for them.

We need to recognize how hard it is for non-LDS kids to come to BYU and make it. We also need ot recognize how hard it is for minority non-LDS to come to BYU. BYU is white bread, white washed, white out as it gets. I am just glad that player like OC choose to come to BYU at all.

Have enough of these situations, and we start losing the Joe Sampson's, and DeQuan Everett's and other kids to other schools. These guys need to know they can make it, know they will be treated well and fairly.

You're right though, it is a sad thing that a large portion of BYU fans are so lame. C'mon, it's not that hard! Wear your team's colors and show up at games!

Here is the thing that I think people fail to realize about forums. Forums, especially cougar corner would be non existent if the only thing that was allowed was "nice" talk. " People don't go to forums to discuss the good things that are happening, or the posts would be like "Player A played really well today" Followed by a few posts of people saying "agreed" "agreed" "agreed" ... What really spurs discussion and dialogue the easiest is things we wish we could change about our team. Our own opinions of how things are going, and what needs to be done. The Chambers thing has 10 pages!! If he had caught 8 passes for 130 yards and a TD it would have been 1 page long, and no one would look at it again. A forum is a place to voice your opinion. If you are a player or a parent and you don't want to know what people think of you or your kid then don't go to the fan forum. This is just logic. Coming on here and complaining about Anae, or Chambers, or Bronco is not an act of treason, it doesn't mean you are a bad fan, it is what forums are for. DISCUSSION!!! Listen to talk radio, NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT UTAH because there is no drama going on up there. We are struggling right now and everyone has their own opinion about what needs to be done. This is the place to voice that opinion. If you don't like it then don't come here. I could not agree more with BLUEISBETTER. Oh, and as far as the 2nd quote from the bottom "They need to know they will be treated fairly" garbage. Just because you are a minority and were kicked out of BYU doesn't mean you were treated unfairly, the people I can think of that were kicked out were kicked out for rape, assault, DWI's, getting caught smoking weed, etc .... not like they get kicked out just because they are different. The end.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
The past few weeks and countless hot topics (what a few weeks, huh!) have led to a lot of cross talk on the forum. It has been for the most part very respectable, with very few personal attacks poster to poster. Trolls have come and gone, and we are all better for not rattling cages.



What really bothers me lately, is the underlying hint and assumption that BYU fans are not good fans, and to a greater extent not good citizens.



BYU fans are some of the most loyal, understanding, and patient fans around.



We have consistently sold out our stadium for the last 7 + years, and we have one of the highest season ticket holder - per seat allowance in the nation. Sure fans are passionate, and that leads to a few morons, but without those fans you wouldn't have a coach or a program to root for. Even in the Crowton years, most of the seats were sold out, people just didn't want to go to the games. You didn't have to spend but 5 minutes to locate 5 groups of tickets, back in that day. A coaching job at BYU has better security than joining the Teachers Union. Lavelle should have gotten out of coaching at least 5 years earlier, but was allowed to stay. Crowton was miserable as a HC, and didn't even get booted, was asked to leave. And that had more to do with program dissension and alleged gang rapes than performance. We fill the seats, buy the programs, fight for seating because the two fat guys take up 4 seats, and live and die with the program.



For Bronco to blatantly and constantly disregard fans, and for people here to throw the fans under the bus as "fickle" etc, is just uncalled for.



Here is the underlying current that has been going on just in the last few days: I am leaving the poster names off, because I have nothing against any of you, and don't want to single people out. I just want to show the context of what has been going on here, and the "mob mentality" that many are buying into. Just read the posts for what they are, and if you posted some of them - again I'm not picking a fight - I'm just tired of hearing about how terrible I am/ we are as fans.

Here comes the mob that drove Chow out of town...



"Grab Your Torch and Pitchfork!"

I think we're seeing the same people who egged his house a few years ago come back out of the wood work.

I'd strongly suggest ignoring the vocal anti-Chambers group. There's only a small handful of them, but they just won't shut up and come out in force whenever he makes a mistake or we lose a game. They won't play nice, regardless of who they hurt, because they don't care. BYU unfortunately has a lot of fans like this, and I've tried to argue with them, but they refuse to change and the best course is to ignore them completely.

Linette - thank you for enduring our BYU idiots!!! My apologies!! Thank you for posting & all your input!!!

I sometimes wonder if we are no better than the Utah fans that poured beer over Max Hall's wife and family. Figuratively speaking, many posters are "pouring beer" all over our own player’s wives and families - what’s worse is that we are disparaging our own.

It looks like this Saturday's game is not even sold out. We are 1-2 and we are already having troubles selling out our stadium? That is a sad commentary on the state of many cougar fans. This is the fourth game of the season, and the best home game that we have left this year there is no reason why this shouldn't be sold out with people on waiting lists.

Bronco is a person with feelings and being booed at his first game, was classless by the fans and hurt his feelings. If you guys had been in his position, or if 30,000 people booed you when you messed up at your job, you would feel the same way. I don't think he is being overly sensative, he is being human. This is why I keep harping on not boing coaches, or players of our own team at LES, it is classless. I don't care how much Bronco is paid, he puts his heart and soul into putting a good product on the field and[b] if we boo it, it is a personal attack[/b].

if you are booing your own team, you are classless... it was still classless for fans to boo him in his first ever game as a Head coach, and he has never forgotten it... being booed by people that should be supporting a player on the field of play is a complete betrayal. It is classless.

LES is supposed to be where our team plays with the support of the fans, when fans boo the team it is a betrayal by the fans. It is a personal attack by fans that are supposed to be supporting the home team. I don't think that the average fan can comprehend what it would feel like being booed by the group of people that players and coaches expect to be supported by. It is not the same as being criticized by a boss at work. It would be similar to having your wife and kids telling you that you are horrible father and husband.

you can boo when an opposing player or coach does something disrespectful or ridiculous but I find it classless and bad taste to boo your own team no matter the circumstance. I was not at the BC game but I find it outrageous that our fans would boo our first year coach in his very first game.

Too many BYU fans are spoiled brats. How quickly we forget the long list of LDS or other coaches names that th eoutspoken BYU fans assumed would all give up their NFL or other jobs for the dream job of coaching BYU, living within the constraints involved, and catering to its spoiled fans. And then 1 by 1 the ydeclined. Even Kwhit spurned us. It came down to which assistant coach shall we promote. Wait a minute, that is how we got Lavell Edwards too.

I find it funny how the fans that feel it's okay to boo Broncos performance are the same fans that get offended when Bronco essentially boos their performance.

BYU has never had a black wide receiver from Florida. So the average fan has assumed he must be a burner. A super star in waiting… After all, he is black and from Florida…

But when things start going south - as they have this year - the fans look for people to blame. Who better to blame than someone who hasn't been meeting the expectations fans had for them.

We need to recognize how hard it is for non-LDS kids to come to BYU and make it. We also need ot recognize how hard it is for minority non-LDS to come to BYU. BYU is white bread, white washed, white out as it gets. I am just glad that player like OC choose to come to BYU at all.

Have enough of these situations, and we start losing the Joe Sampson's, and DeQuan Everett's and other kids to other schools. These guys need to know they can make it, know they will be treated well and fairly.

You're right though, it is a sad thing that a large portion of BYU fans are so lame. C'mon, it's not that hard! Wear your team's colors and show up at games!

Exactly! It is very disappointing that we have fans that are like this about our fans.



Sorry I couldn't resist ;).



On a serious note though, I'm not exactly sure where I stand on the topic. All sports teams have good fans and bad fans (though that's relative to each person's definition of what a good fan is). I do know that most of my friends from BYU are really great people, though I don't know what all of their fan habits are like.

Our coaches are not infallible. They are not beyond reproach. They make mistakes. It's fun to talk about those issues and the what if's. That being said, I'm glad Bronco is in charge. I have yet to see one college coach I would rather trade him with that would fulfill BYU's mission and be an outstanding coach. I just wish he would go for it more on 4th when were on the opponents side of the field. But I am less risk averse and I hate giving up on a drive (which is what punting is to me). I know, I know, there are proper times to punt and change filed position--but not when you are at or inside the opponents 45. That drives me :angry: . Oh, and I wouldn't be sad about an Anae upgrade although I think he was a huge upgrade over Crowton. I wouldn't mind someone bringing back the west coast offense. The spread is nice too. I'm rambling now, so I'll just stop.

I boo sometimes. I also bag on coaches and players sometimes. Its because I care too much. While we have classy and good fans generally, there are always a few bad eggs. It is a fact. Uh oh, now you have to amend your post and put me in it :)

Oh yeah, bad fans throw stuff on the field and cuss at the other teams fans. Boos are getting close to the line, but the point of a football game is to entertain the fans, right? I mean its to sell tickets isn't it? So, if you are making crappy calls (like punting at the opponent's 35), or trying to run the ball from within your own ten yard line within the closing seconds of the half and almost costing your team a bowl game, I might boo. But that isn't because I don't love or support the team. I just don't love or support those boneheaded calls. Go Cougars!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:



Though I am usually booing inside. I don't know that I have ever booed my team vocally where the team would hear it. I have had plenty to scream at my TV though.

I got Keith Olbermann'd or Glenn Beck'd. My comment was quoted completely out of context. I made no comments about BYU fans on any thread, just about cultural aspects of attending BYU for certain groups, and how it makes it harder for non-LDS kids to make it at BYU at times.



I think booing coaches is fine. They are men--they get paid to do that job. Booing players is never ok. They are unpaid college players. This is not the NFL. I admit I booed Crowton the last 2 years--a lot. My wife hated it, but you know what--BYU admin heard it and made that change because enough of us were unhappy, some so unhappy they quit coming to games altogether. The fans voice does matter. Coaches may not like it, but fans pay their wages. No fans=no salary for a coach. Fans/alum are a huge part to the sports equation. No coach lives in a vacuum, that is not reality. Booing happens at every stadium in America, and I guarantee that every coach has been booed, no matter how much success they have had. And guess what, it is no big deal. Coaches need fans. They can not take them for granted.

It does seem paradoxical to make a post criticizing fans to stop criticizing fans. I think you fail to grasp at least the point of some of the posts, such as mine about not selling the stadium out is sad, is not to rip. We should be selling out these games. The fans that show up are good, and BYU has many loyal fans. But if we are here talking about taking the football program to the next level, we need to make sure that we are selling out our home games no matter what. Its not an attack on anyones citizenship but merely a call to things like this that need to be addressed.



That fact remains, we have 2 loses and the stadium this weekend is not sold out. I would agree that we have some the best, most courteous fans in the nation, but to say we are patient is something I would have to disagree with. When max hall throws interceptions in his senior season and fans start calling for the back up to be put in doesn't strike me as patient. We are hungry, we want greatness, and we want to go to the next level and that is one of the greatest things about BYU fans. Do I feel like we have room for improvement in our fan attitude? Yes, to sit back and think BYU fans have arrived is silly. I would love to see every single game sale out, no matter our record, no matter who we are playing. I would love to see a unified student section. I would love to see a lot of things, and posts pointing out problems are not something that I think should seen as a bad thing. The stadium isn't sold out, so I am trying to recruit people to fill those seats, and will do my best to make enough noise to make up for any empty seats, if there be any.

I mean, we are getting talked about like we are Philly fans or something. I'm pretty sure that LES wouldn't start throwing snowballs at Santa Claus...





And to ammend the thread, I have not and will not ever boo at a collegiate player. Though I might have broken my rule and done it when I saw ashworth give up on that catchable route if I was as the airforce game.



We are a very tolerant people, and most coaches never had it so good coaching at BYU. Any other coach that talked constantly about striving for a national championship, and practiced 1/3 less than the other coaches would be lit on fire. We just accept that kind of thing here, and we don't get nearly as much credit as we deserve, especially in the hard times, like this year.

fifthqb wrote:

That fact remains, we have 2 loses and the stadium this weekend is not sold out. I would agree that we have some the best, most courteous fans in the nation, but to say we are patient is something I would have to disagree with. When max hall throws interceptions in his senior season and fans start calling for the back up to be put in doesn't strike me as patient. We are hungry, we want greatness, and we want to go to the next level and that is one of the greatest things about BYU fans. Do I feel like we have room for improvement in our fan attitude? Yes, to sit back and think BYU fans have arrived is silly. I would love to see every single game sale out, no matter our record, no matter who we are playing. I would love to see a unified student section. I would love to see a lot of things, and posts pointing out problems are not something that I think should seen as a bad thing. The stadium isn't sold out, so I am trying to recruit people to fill those seats, and will do my best to make enough noise to make up for any empty seats, if there be any.

I agree about the student section, but I think that is the programs fault, and not the fans.



And about the Max Hall people, you are always going to have a few morons in any group.

Again, I don't have anything against the individual posters, and some of the posts are taken out of context, I am just trying to stand up for my fanhood, and many others out there. We aren't all bad, and a small minority shouldn't be the measuring stick.

So let me get this straight,



It is perfectly okay to criticize a coach for what you feel is a boneheaded move on his part, namely punting on 4th and 1.



But it is not okay to criticize fans for what you feel is a boneheaded move on their part, namely booing their own team?



That seems a little off

Just like it's not okay to criticize congress for "bonehead" moves, but it is okay to criticize the people trying to "hold them accountable?"



Okay Jon Stewart/Steven Colbert/CNN news...

As a fan, I retain my right to criticize the BYU fanbase all I want.



And maybe you should come sit in the seats on my side of the stands for a game or two before you decide that BYU has no lame fans (not all of them of course, but enough that you'd be yelling at them after sitting there a game or two). And these are the fans that attend every game, faithfully, so they're still pretty good as far as BYU fans go.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
Just like it's not okay to criticize congress for "bonehead" moves, but it is okay to criticize the people trying to "hold them accountable?"

Yeah because congress is the same as the head coach at BYU. :roll:



My point is this. I can criticize fans for what I deem is poor decisions as much as you can criticize Bronco for what you deem is poor decisions.



I think it is in bad taste for BYU fans to boo BYU. I just do. And no I don't believe the BYU coaching staff walks on water, I have criticized them for many things in the past. I just don't think booing your own team is in good taste.



The other things that I will criticize the BYU fan base for are things such as not wearing blue to the games. It's not hard. Shirts are 5 dollars. No your white BYU shirt doesn't count. Wear blue.



Does this mean that I think the BYU fanbase is bad? Not at all. I think they are great. One of the best in the country.

agree to disagree as far as booing the coaches. And speaking of ironies, how about the people that think it's okay to boo refs when they make "a bad call," but not our coaches when they make "a bad call." After all, the refs have a job to do, too. Right? For a LOT less money, I might add.



No congress isn't the same thing, but you are missing the point. There is no direct email to Bronco. No call in show, no way to express how we feel to him. Bronco could care less how the average fan feels about BYU, or the super fan even.



So because there is no forum set up , and rather than picket outside LES, people boo to show displeasure. They are the one's paying his salary, anyways.



What do you think would be a more appropriate way of making themselves known than booing? Should we set up a "poll the audience" thing in LES, so he can check the notes and see how we react (not that he would. Guarantee that monitor would stay off.)

Bronco is a football coach, not a bishop or religious leader. He gets paid to do his job. Paid well, I might add. I have never booed him and love the job he is doing. But if things ever got to Crowton levels of bad, I would boo, but guess what--at least that means I was there. Many people just flat out bailed instead. I'd rather people show and boo, then bail completely. Having said that, Bronco will not let that happen. He is too good, which is another reason why I love and respect the guy as the coach at BYU.

Look I can see and understand your point about booing coaches. I don't agree with it but I understand it.



Again, my point is this. I can criticize fans for what I deem to be poor decisions just as much as you can criticize Bronco for what you deem to be poor decisions.



Fans are not and should not be exempt from criticism.



I think it's funny how fans can criticize Bronco all they want but as soon as Bronco says one little bit of criticism towards them then they take this "how dare he" attitude.

Let me get this straight--you are telling those fans who think they know what good fans are how to be good fans?