Someone make a case for me for Riley

I think it is proven that he can't and won't make throws down the field. If you disagree, that's fine-but please operate under that assumption. Also, assume that opponent defenses will stack the box and often leave just one or two people back in coverage help*, like AFA did to shut down Riley in the 2nd half-you know, the same AFA that has the west's least athletic athletes.



*I mean coverage help beyond enough guys to just match the number of WR/TE and RB in routes.

I can't.

Riley has proven his accuracy in the intermediate range (out to 18ish yards) is above average. If defenses stack the box like they did at AFA, the solution is to run WR screens, quick outs, and passes in the flats to a releasing tailback. Those plays get the ball quickly out of the teeth of the stacked box, are high percentage plays that net decent yardage, and put your receivers in a position to break one tackle and get a big gain.



If those plays are called, the defense has to decide whether to continue stacking the box and getting burned on the short passing game or to respect the pass a bit more, which opens the running lanes back up for Nelson's legs.

snoscythe wrote:
Riley has proven his accuracy in the intermediate range (out to 18ish yards) is above average.

Based on what? Certainly nothing I've seen in games.

I asked people to do this with me for Chambers being a starting WR, no one could. As for Riley I think he is being put in a position to fail by the coaches. Same for Heaps. Riley could lead us to an 8-4 season. So could Jake though, so why not get the future started now rather than later.

leave chambers out of this. don't cross thread.

byutx wrote:

Riley has proven his accuracy in the intermediate range (out to 18ish yards) is above average.

Based on what? Certainly nothing I've seen in games.

Get real. He completed 70% of passes last year, and 65% against UW, and you are telling me his accuracy in the intermediate range isn't above average?

snoscythe wrote:
Riley has proven his accuracy in the intermediate range (out to 18ish yards) is above average. If defenses stack the box like they did at AFA, the solution is to run WR screens, quick outs, and passes in the flats to a releasing tailback. Those plays get the ball quickly out of the teeth of the stacked box, are high percentage plays that net decent yardage, and put your receivers in a position to break one tackle and get a big gain.



If those plays are called, the defense has to decide whether to continue stacking the box and getting burned on the short passing game or to respect the pass a bit more, which opens the running lanes back up for Nelson's legs.

Just because you are stacking the box it doesn't mean that you are blitzing everyone... lol.

All the linebackers are just closer to the LOS to guard for the run, they still drop out into the flats. And our receivers can't release, so nobody is open.



And you are neutralizing our offense's best two players, maybe even 3. Matt Reynolds is now not guarding the blindside, (stop switching him over to RT - that has to stop). JJ now has no more lanes, and isn't an up the tackles runner. And McKay isn't getting the ball.

snoscythe wrote:

snoscythe wrote:
Riley has proven his accuracy in the intermediate range (out to 18ish yards) is above average.

Based on what? Certainly nothing I've seen in games.

Get real. He completed 70% of passes last year, and 65% against UW, and you are telling me his accuracy in the intermediate range isn't above average?

How many of those were the 1- or 0-yard variety? How many had long YAC? How many were on blown coverages, like JJ's long catch and run vs. UW?

I don't understand how anyone that saw the 2nd half of the AFA game can't be nervous about having Riley in at QB.

byutx wrote:

byutx wrote:

Riley has proven his accuracy in the intermediate range (out to 18ish yards) is above average.

Based on what? Certainly nothing I've seen in games.

Get real. He completed 70% of passes last year, and 65% against UW, and you are telling me his accuracy in the intermediate range isn't above average?

How many of those were the 1- or 0-yard variety? How many had long YAC? How many were on blown coverages, like JJ's long catch and run vs. UW?

What does YAC or blown coverage have to do with accuracy? The ball gets to where it needs to be--accurate. Is it that hard to admit that he get the ball where it needs to be on throws under 20 yards?

snoscythe wrote:

snoscythe wrote:

snoscythe wrote:
Riley has proven his accuracy in the intermediate range (out to 18ish yards) is above average.

Based on what? Certainly nothing I've seen in games.

Get real. He completed 70% of passes last year, and 65% against UW, and you are telling me his accuracy in the intermediate range isn't above average?

How many of those were the 1- or 0-yard variety? How many had long YAC? How many were on blown coverages, like JJ's long catch and run vs. UW?

What does YAC or blown coverage have to do with accuracy? The ball gets to where it needs to be--accurate. Is it that hard to admit that he get the ball where it needs to be on throws under 20 yards?

Honest question: does "intermediate" mean 0-19 yards? Because I think I am confident in Riley's passing ability in the 0-10 yard range, what I'd consider short-range. I am not confident that he is above average from 10-20. In fact I would consider him below average in that distance based on the type of throws a BYU QB is asked to make.

byutx wrote:

byutx wrote:

byutx wrote:

Riley has proven his accuracy in the intermediate range (out to 18ish yards) is above average.

Based on what? Certainly nothing I've seen in games.

Get real. He completed 70% of passes last year, and 65% against UW, and you are telling me his accuracy in the intermediate range isn't above average?

How many of those were the 1- or 0-yard variety? How many had long YAC? How many were on blown coverages, like JJ's long catch and run vs. UW?

What does YAC or blown coverage have to do with accuracy? The ball gets to where it needs to be--accurate. Is it that hard to admit that he get the ball where it needs to be on throws under 20 yards?

Honest question: does "intermediate" mean 0-19 yards? Because I think I am confident in Riley's passing ability in the 0-10 yard range, what I'd consider short-range. I am not confident that he is above average from 10-20. In fact I would consider him below average in that distance based on the type of throws a BYU QB is asked to make.

Yes, under 20 yards = intermediate.

To be perfectly honest with you all, I was more concerned with our D than with the QB play. Obviously Riley struggles the last 3 quarters. Steven Thomas struggled all game long, yet Bronco said he keeps that job. I am more concerned that Thomas is starting than if Nelson does. Riley struggled, Nelson was AWFUL. I just hope Heaps gets a chance v. FSU to get more reps. And I hope Uale gets way more reps v. FSU as well. His time was miles better than what Thomas gave.



Intermediate passing is 5-15. 16+ is long. Nelson is fine 5-15, but not over that. Especially not to the outside, when he struggles over 15.

What I find humorous about this is this: Bronco, Anae, and Doman all think Riley can run a successful offense. Even after AFA. Doman admits that the package they gave Nelson wasn't the right one and that the play calling needed to improve. Yet, all the wise fans look at the second half of the AFA game as the zenith of Riley Nelson's potential. It was a coaching mistake that put him in the second-half, goes the argument, but it couldn't have been coaching mistakes that led to his shortcomings in that game--that was all on him.



Once again, when something goes against Nelson, it is all him and his short-comings, but when it goes against Heaps, it is coaching error, bad receivers, etc. etc. etc. ad naseum. We have three coaches who think Riley Nelson can lead an effective offense and that he wasn't given the opportunity, but the fans are convinced otherwise. Why? Because they are obsessed with Jake Heaps' youtube videos.

snoscythe wrote:

snoscythe wrote:
Riley has proven his accuracy in the intermediate range (out to 18ish yards) is above average.

Based on what? Certainly nothing I've seen in games.

Get real. He completed 70% of passes last year, and 65% against UW, and you are telling me his accuracy in the intermediate range isn't above average?

thats because he runs the ball and never makes a difficult pass!! Did you watch him on saturday? He looked inept at distributing the ball to anybody but himself. I admit this was largely the coaches problem. he just can't be expected to execute normal byu football. they have to make certain plays for him to succeed. i suspect the coaches put a plan together for him just as sno said. lots of 10-15 passes and him running.



i also agree with the earlier post that said coaches are putting them both in a position to fail. heaps will never pull away when he is being put in and out the way he is. nelson can't succeed unless pass plays are repeated enough for him practice that he feels comfortable doing it in a game. i still have question marks about if nelson can execute passing plays as much as byu needs to to keep that balance. he is obviously not confident in his passing ability.

jonnylingo wrote:
he is obviously not confident in his passing ability.

This part interests me. I think Riley's problem is that he is overconfident in his running ability and not comfortable in the pocket distributing the ball all over the field. I also think dropped passes by guys have caused him to lack confidence in some receivers, and to rely on his overconfidence with running the ball. Because of that, Riley made himself and he BYU offense too predictable and one dimensional. Riley needs to show more confidence in his receivers and let them make plays. And then those guys need to step up and make those plays. The QB role at BYU is always to get many guys he ball. Riley really needs to improve in that area, and call his own number much, much less.

byutx wrote:

byutx wrote:

Riley has proven his accuracy in the intermediate range (out to 18ish yards) is above average.

Based on what? Certainly nothing I've seen in games.

Get real. He completed 70% of passes last year, and 65% against UW, and you are telling me his accuracy in the intermediate range isn't above average?

How many of those were the 1- or 0-yard variety? How many had long YAC? How many were on blown coverages, like JJ's long catch and run vs. UW?

Speaking of Blown coverages, Riley made the call for JJ to release if he saw the linebacker blitz. So, the blown coverage was something Riley had seen and told JJ what to do if it happened and we got a 60 yard touchdown. Sounds to me like he is completely responsible for that play including the completed pass.

frdbtr wrote:

snoscythe wrote:

snoscythe wrote:
Riley has proven his accuracy in the intermediate range (out to 18ish yards) is above average.

Based on what? Certainly nothing I've seen in games.

Get real. He completed 70% of passes last year, and 65% against UW, and you are telling me his accuracy in the intermediate range isn't above average?

How many of those were the 1- or 0-yard variety? How many had long YAC? How many were on blown coverages, like JJ's long catch and run vs. UW?

Speaking of Blown coverages, Riley made the call for JJ to release if he saw the linebacker blitz. So, the blown coverage was something Riley had seen and told JJ what to do if it happened and we got a 60 yard touchdown. Sounds to me like he is completely responsible for that play including the completed pass.

source on riley telling him?



or is that just the way the play is drawn up...

BlueIsBetter wrote:

byutx wrote:

byutx wrote:

Riley has proven his accuracy in the intermediate range (out to 18ish yards) is above average.

Based on what? Certainly nothing I've seen in games.

Get real. He completed 70% of passes last year, and 65% against UW, and you are telling me his accuracy in the intermediate range isn't above average?

How many of those were the 1- or 0-yard variety? How many had long YAC? How many were on blown coverages, like JJ's long catch and run vs. UW?

Speaking of Blown coverages, Riley made the call for JJ to release if he saw the linebacker blitz. So, the blown coverage was something Riley had seen and told JJ what to do if it happened and we got a 60 yard touchdown. Sounds to me like he is completely responsible for that play including the completed pass.

source on riley telling him?



or is that just the way the play is drawn up...

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/cougars/50222980-75/byu-nelson-washington-game.html.csp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



It is on page 2



"Nelson’s headiness resulted in BYU’s second TD, a 46-yard strike to a wide-open J.J. DiLuigi down the middle of the field. Nelson told DiLuigi, who was supposed to stay in and block, to run a seam route if he thought a linebacker would blitz."



I read more descriptive accounts but I am at work and don't have time to read all of the post game articles to find it.