Archived Topic

Cougar Corner mental exercise: QB

by byutx · 9/15/2010

Advertisement
B
byutx
The purpose of this thread is to try to help us each see from and understand the point of view of those with whom we disagree. I'd like everyone to state who they think should be the starting QB (and, thus, would get the majority of snaps in practice and in games) and then proceed to make sound arguments why the other QB should be the starter and why "their guy" should not. Let's use the following format to keep this easy to read.



1. I think Jake Heaps should be the guy

2. Nelson could be the guy because...

3. Jake may not be the guy this year because...



My hope is that 1) guys that think Riley Nelson walks on water (Kitic, that's you ;)) can begin to understand why the vast majority of fans are upset over this indecision, 2) guys that think Jake Heaps is a Heisman trophy candidate this season (like me) can begin to understand why Riley is getting all of "Jake's" snaps, and 3) things get more civil here. I'll go first in a separate post.



Let's keep the TIC responses out of this one, if possible.
B
byutx
1. I think Jake Heaps should be the guy

2. Nelson could be the guy because he is a great leader, because he has worked hard, because he's quick and fast (which aren't the same thing), elusive and athletic. The coaching staff trusts that he is capable enough of making the throws he needs to in the offense they tailor for him. He is a gamer and is exciting to watch running a ground-based attack.

3. Jake may not be the guy this year because he may not be mentally prepared. The staff may be saving him and trying to build up his confidence. They don't want him to get a big head right out of the gate. He throws too well (hey, I said NO TIC!!!), I mean he needs to take a bit off of some of his throws; he is slower and less mobile than Riley and not as well suited to play the QB spot in the revamped offense that they developed and with which they want to move forward
S
SpiffCoug
I don't think Nelson walks on water. And I completely understand why fans are upset. I'm upset with the indecision as well.



1. I think Jake Heaps will be the guy at some point this season. I do not think he is the guy at this point and that his transition to D1 ball has not gone as smoothly as his fans have wanted.



2. I think Nelson is the guy for right now, because he has shown he can be an effective QB. He struggled mightily against AF, although the coaches have stated they were asking him to do things he hadn't practiced, so he resorted what he knew when thing broke down: tuck and run.



3. Jake may not be the guy this year because he's a freshman and it's a huge jump from high school to Top 25 D1 football - which is where I think BYU is/should be.



My hope is that the coaches make a decision. And I hope that decision to go with one QB for the vast majority of the snaps (90%+). I think that would be of the most benefit for either QB.
B
byutx
amen on the indecision. It will cost us multiple possible wins if it doesn't get solved asap
B
byutx
Kitic, can I ask you the favor of going through the exercise regarding why Jake could be the guy and why Riley isn't the guy?
Advertisement
I
IndiCoug
IMHO,

1. I think Heaps should be (is) the guy. To many positives from what I've read, seen, and watch in the last 2 games. I don't however think he is worthy of any Heisman talk until he is winning games decisively and putting up constantly good passing yards.

2. Nelson could be the guy because he is a very good runner when the defense is spread. Is the most senor and has put in his time (like Bronco likes). Could succeed if the coaching staff create a game plan around his strong suites of running, short passes, screens, and draws.

3. Jake may not be the guy this year because of injury soley. Some of the skills this guy has can not be taught which puts him in the league with Detmer when he arrived. He is smart like Detmer but has the arm of Jimmy Mac. He is not an ordinary freshmen and shouldn't be punished because he is not been in the system.
G
Guest
I like this idea, but I would like to see reasons why each guy should be the starter and why each shouldn't be the starter, then share who we would choose over all.



Jake Heaps

Should Start - He is the QB of the future (we hope!). Had impressive numbers in high school. Is very well poised for a true freshman. Has acted with a ton of maturity. Has a rocket of an arm that can throw the length of the field if necessary. Incredible athlete.



Shouldn't Start - High school stats not withstanding his college stats are abysmal. Most QBs take at least 1 year in the system to learn the play book, get up to speed with the faster defenses. Making poor decisions and slow reads. Only got half of the snaps through fall camp.



Riley Nelson

Should Start - Determined and aggressive. Can make typical BYU offense throws (0 - 20 yards) with no problem. Added element of running the ball. Not afraid to take a hit or give a hit. More efficient at moving the sticks right now. More efficient at scoring points.



Shouldn't Start - Lacks confidence in either his arm or the receivers, because he tucked and ran too quickly in the 2nd half of the Air Force Game. Offense less suited for his style. Happened to come to BYU at a time when we had major stud of a QB commit and come in. Only got half of the snaps through fall camp.



Now, who do I want to start? Heaps, but I'll defend to my dying day Nelson and his abilities.
S
SpiffCoug
byutx wrote:
Kitic, can I ask you the favor of going through the exercise regarding why Jake could be the guy and why Riley isn't the guy?

I've been clear about Heaps. I think he could be the guy because he's the most polished QB we've ever had in a freshman. I think he has the talent be an all-time great. He could be the guy because once he catches up to the speed of D1 ball I think he's going to be phenomenal. I think we've done him a disservice either 1) not red-shirting him or 2) not naming him the starter and giving him as many reps as he can handle.



I don't think Riley is the guy because it's painfully obvious that he has next to zero support in the fan base. If Bronco thinks he and Santiago were resoundingly booed in his first game just wait until the first play Riley messes up against Nevada. I don't think we've ever heard the booing of one of our own that will take place next weekend. Riley is utterly despised by the fan base. He is now in a lose-lose situation. If he plays spectacularly against FSU fans will be mad, because he's further holding off the anointed one.
C
Cougarfan87
I think Heaps should start because...this team is very young and its obvious we aren't BCS bowling this year anyway. Heaps has a rocket of an arm, would be a four year starter (barring injury), so he should get the reps. Plus, looking ahead to next year, he will most likely beat out Nelson in camp next year once he has absorbed more of the offense. Heaps is the drop back QB who needs the reps to get consistency. Riley can fill in like Tebow did with Leak (only once in a while on 3rd and shorts, goal line stands, Heaps needs to get his head adjusted before the next drive, or Heaps is getting the crap kicked out of him). The passing QB needs to develop the rhythym so, he should start. This situation reminds me very much of the Covey/Detmer years where we knew Detmer was going to be special, but he never got the reps to develop until his sophmore year.



I think Heaps should not start because...he didn't beat out Nelson in practice or in performance on the field yet. For that reason, you might want to go with the more experienced person. Also, we don't want to destroy his confidence against tough opponents (such as FSU).



I think Nelson should start because... we should not hold terrible play calling against him. He can make the short throws, if they are called for him. He can make intermediate throws over the middle, if they are called for him. And he can hand off more, which he would do, if the plays were called for him. He should not be required to drop back and rush every time, and he can be very successful if he would simply learn how to keep his eyes down field looking for receivers when he starts to take off instead of looking for running lanes. Nelson has started before and found success at Utah State when the right kind of plays were called for him. Heaps can play clean up time this year or in blowouts against the cream puffs (I hope we have cream puffs this year).



Nelson should not start because... a Junior should have easily beat out a true freshman in practice if he wanted to be the starter. Its obvious he will not be the starter next year if he has to share reps with Heaps all year anyway, so you might as well give Heaps the experience. Nelson isn't the kind of QB the offense was designed for, and we have too much talent that is not used if Nelson is just going to be called on to tuck and run like Anae admitted he did in the second half of the Air Force game. I guess I am saying, if our OC can't figure out how to properly use him, we need to go with what he can use. Also, all of the false starts come when Nelson is at QB. He needs to fix his cadence or the OL needs to figure it out.



Overall I wish we would use the two QB system I had envisioned where Heaps is the Starting QB with Lark as the backup and Nelson as the true Tebow type situational back who comes in on 3rd and shorts, goallines, or whenever the offense needs a jumpstart. Nelson is talented, but I don't feel like he is being used properly or that in our system he can be the featured QB. We would have had to revamp our whole system prior to the season (like a pistol offense or something). Its too late to try and change it now, so Heaps should get the experience he needs to take us further the next three years with Nelson as a good support system.
I
imuakahuku
kitic77 wrote:
If he plays spectacularly against FSU fans will be mad, because he's further holding off the anointed one.


What? This is TIC right? Fans have high expectations for BYU QB's. We tout our long line of accomplished QB's. They seem to set NCAA, Conference, or BYU records like they were easy. If Riley can play to that level he will not be booed. He will be cheered. If anything BYU fans actually pull for the underdog. That's our nature.
Advertisement
S
snoscythe
imuakahuku wrote:
If he plays spectacularly against FSU fans will be mad, because he's further holding off the anointed one.


What? This is TIC right? Fans have high expectations for BYU QB's. We tout our long line of accomplished QB's. They seem to set NCAA, Conference, or BYU records like they were easy. If Riley can play to that level he will not be booed. He will be cheered. If anything BYU fans actually pull for the underdog. That's our nature.


As evidenced by the fans cheering him after a great UW game? Oh, wait....they were predicting his downfall.
B
Brayden Green
snoscythe wrote:
kitic77 wrote:
If he plays spectacularly against FSU fans will be mad, because he's further holding off the anointed one.


What? This is TIC right? Fans have high expectations for BYU QB's. We tout our long line of accomplished QB's. They seem to set NCAA, Conference, or BYU records like they were easy. If Riley can play to that level he will not be booed. He will be cheered. If anything BYU fans actually pull for the underdog. That's our nature.


As evidenced by the fans cheering him after a great UW game? Oh, wait....they were predicting his downfall.


There are some fans who think he had a great game against UW.



Jake did too.
F
frdbtr
kitic77 wrote:
I don't think Nelson walks on water. And I completely understand why fans are upset. I'm upset with the indecision as well.



1. I think Jake Heaps will be the guy at some point this season. I do not think he is the guy at this point and that his transition to D1 ball has not gone as smoothly as his fans have wanted.



2. I think Nelson is the guy for right now, because he has shown he can be an effective QB. He struggled mightily against AF, although the coaches have stated they were asking him to do things he hadn't practiced, so he resorted what he knew when thing broke down: tuck and run.



3. Jake may not be the guy this year because he's a freshman and it's a huge jump from high school to Top 25 D1 football - which is where I think BYU is/should be.



My hope is that the coaches make a decision. And I hope that decision to go with one QB for the vast majority of the snaps (90%+). I think that would be of the most benefit for either QB.


There is no reason for me to post my thoughts on this thread because this post just did it better then I could have.
1
1967cougar
1. Riley Nelson should be the guy



2. Why Heaps should be the "one"

Look at the letters: J-A-K-E H-E-A-P-S. There are four letters in Jake and five letters in Heaps. Just like Eddie Wide. there are five letters in Eddie and four letters in Wide. They have the same amount of letters in their names. And since Eddie Wide is "IN" then Jake heaps should be "IN" also.



3. Why Nelson shouldn't be the "one"

His buns aren't tight enough. And don't quarterbacks need to have tight buns? Oh my gosh!! I can't believe I said that.



Signed,



Natalie Meisler
C
Cougarbib
If the rest of the team does not step up, I think BYU Tx or one of the others that can't let go of the Heaps - 4 year starter - 5k yards every year - multiple Heisman trophies - fantasy should start or take a few snaps to see what it is like to play D1 football on the ROAD against a fired up and good team when your OL isn't protecting, you don't have a proven FB to pick up blitzes, receivers are dropping passes, backs are fumbling, and tight ends are invisible.



Then reality sets in, Heaps doesn't get killed, Nelson doesn't get booed, and maybe the coaches focus on the myriad problems of last week listed above plus punting, DL, and LB and try to right the ship.



Be patient - it will come along in due time



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">
Advertisement
M
Mars
snoscythe wrote:
As evidenced by the fans cheering him after a great UW game? Oh, wait... they were predicting his downfall.

If they were, then they were right. Riley was FAIL against Air Force.
M
Mars
Cougarbib2 wrote:
If the rest of the team does not step up, I think BYU Tx or one of the others that can't let go of the Heaps - 4 year starter - 5k yards every year - multiple Heisman trophies - fantasy should start or take a few snaps to see what it is like to play D1 football on the ROAD

Your style is antagonistic but not enlightening. Putting words in a person's mouth beats talking football?
This is an archived topic from the original CougarCorner forum. New replies are not accepted.