Bronco had to let Riley fail

So here is my theory. The coaches have known for a long time that Nelson is not the guy. He is a perfect backup QB. Brings something new to the mix. But for BYU's passing system, he is woefully inadequate. Heaps is the long term guy that plugs right into BYU's system.



But, Bronco really had a problem this year. He has a history of making players earn playing time. Nelson has been a hard worker and done a great job, and giving the nod to an unproven true freshman is just not his style. Plus, throwing Heaps to the wolves by starting him against UW, AF, and FSU is not good for a true freshman. Regardless of talent level, a gentler introduction (which Heaps has fortunately been given) is definitely better.



So, I think this whole thing has been deliberate, even if a bit subconcious on the coaches' part.



So that's why I think Bronco had to let Riley fail. He knew he wouldn't get it done in the 2nd half against AF, but needed to let him try. It was a sacrifice needed to set the stage for the rest of the year, and the next few upcoming years. By the time the FSU game is underway and the offense isn't moving under Nelson, he can let Heaps play. I still don't think Heaps will play that much against FSU, Riley will be given 1 more extended shot I think. And if/when he fails, the team and the fans will be clamoring for Heaps, and Bronco won't look like a jerk or like an abandoner of tradition by going with the younger player.



Mark my words: Heaps will be the starting QB beginning with the Nevada game, and will remain the starter. Nelson will still take a decent number of snaps, but Heaps will be the clear starter and leader of the offense. Once the FSU game is over with, BYU can finally put this QB debacle in the rear-view mirror and look to the future.



(I am NOT a Nelson hater. He is a great athlete. Just IMO not the right fit for BYU).

I've had those same thoughts. But I doubt that was the plan from the beginning. That might be the plan now; give him one last shot so that we can all feel good about starting and playing Heaps. If they knew he was going to fail I have serious questions about why our coaching staff would put the feelings of one player over the team as a whole.



I think that is what will end up happening but that wasn't the plan. Like you said, it was done subconsciously.

So one bad half and Riley is already a failure. Impressive. I hope he never gets another chance. If he's just going to fail, we can't afford to risk it.



I wonder what Bronco's plan is if/when Heaps' fails?

why was he even recruited then??? I seriously doubt Bronco would bring in Nelson 2 years ago just so he could fail once Heaps showed up.

kitic77 wrote:
So one bad half and Riley is already a failure. Impressive. I hope he never gets another chance. If he's just going to fail, we can't afford to risk it.

I never said it was fair. Life isn't, and football isn't.

kitic77 wrote:
I wonder what Bronco's plan is if/when Heaps' fails?

88 yards in pass offense is not BYU football.



Even if Heaps is as unsuccessful as Nelson, it still makes better sense to stick with him for the long haul. Again I am not advocating Riley be benched. He has great talent and the offense can make use of it in many situations. I hope he still gets a lot of snaps. He is qualified to lead the team if necessary.

CougarPeasant wrote:
why was he even recruited then??? I seriously doubt Bronco would bring in Nelson 2 years ago just so he could fail once Heaps showed up.

I thought he recruited BYU not the other way around? He wasn't recruited by BYU in HS, they chose Lark over Riley even though Riley completely pummeled Lark's team in the championship. Alas, this in not HS anymore. Now just about everyone on the team is a D-1 athlete instead of just a few.

CougarPeasant wrote:
why was he even recruited then??? I seriously doubt Bronco would bring in Nelson 2 years ago just so he could fail once Heaps showed up.

IIRC he initiated contact with BYU while on his mission. He's very talented an certainly has his role on the team - BYU was very wise to take him. I'm glad they did. I'm a fan of Nelson's don't get me wrong!

I stand by my comment, I seriously doubt Bronco would have brought in Nelson to fail. (Yes, we all know Nelson approached BYU first, through his dad, but there was mutual interest, hence, he was "recruited" and given a scholarship.)

imuakahuku wrote:

why was he even recruited then??? I seriously doubt Bronco would bring in Nelson 2 years ago just so he could fail once Heaps showed up.

I thought he recruited BYU not the other way around? He wasn't recruited by BYU in HS, they chose Lark over Riley even though Riley completely pummeled Lark's team in the championship. Alas, this in not HS anymore. Now just about everyone on the team is a D-1 athlete instead of just a few.

Because Nelson was 100% USU from the time he started playing football. His dad was the team doctor and there was no point in recruiting him when he was already a devoted Aggie. They chose Lark because he was the best remaining option. BYU not recruiting Nelson was not a talent issue, it was a reality issue--he wasn't going anywhere but USU out of high school.



While Nelson was on his mission, his dad and USU had a less than amicable parting, which is what soured Riley to USU and what opened the door for BYU. If the USU sports administration had a bit more tact and foresight, Riley Nelson would still be a dyed-in-the-wool Aggie.

CougarPeasant wrote:
I stand by my comment, I seriously doubt Bronco would have brought in Nelson to fail. (Yes, we all know Nelson approached BYU first, through his dad, but there was mutual interest, hence, he was "recruited" and given a scholarship.)

As well you should. That is not what I am trying to say... Bronco doesn't bring in anyone to fail!



I am simply stating that I believe Bronco thinks the job is Heaps' for the long run, but has to give Riley a chance first. That's all. Riley's a fighter and a competitor. He's the kind of guy you want on your team. He's a great leader. He just should have stayed at USU. He would have had a stellar career there I think, and would have really helped out their program. His particular skill set just doesn't fit in as good at BYU.

One reason I see why Nelson was added was there really was a dearth of QBs to fill the void once Hall graduated. Munns and Lark were on missions and wouldn't be back in time to play this season. Lark had to wait a year because of injury before he could serve, otherwise, things would have been different this season. Bowers left BYU. Usually, a coach goes to the JCs to get a QB with game playing experience and some track record to play the position and fill the gap when a HS recruit isn't ready or available. I think Bronc, Anae, and Doman all saw Nelson as a solid solution to that one year gap they were facing once Hall left. Nelson had FBS game experience, better than JC competition, he was an RM so BYU's Honor Code was no obstacle, and he was interested in going to BYU and wanted to be here after his mission.



Those are all very good reasons to bring in a QB like Nelson. THe only down side is that Nelson is NOT a prototypical BYU QB.

When Riley's transfer was accepted over 2 years ago, there was no way to tell what was going to happen for the cougars at the qb position. I am sure that they saw a little hole and were nervous about it, even back then. So accepting the transfer of a very good high school recruit qb that could possibly pan out at qb is a no brainer. Again, they didn't actively engage to get him, either out of HS or on his mission. But not accepting someone like that would be boneheaded, when you have plenty of open space (we weren't recruiting then nearly as well as we are now, or will be in the future.)



With that said, I disagree wholly with all the "setting up Riley to fail" arguments and stances. I don't see our coaching staff doing that, for starters.



In continuation, Riley has been given every chance in the book to succeed. Take last year for example. He failed to beat out Gaskins for the #2 spot behind Max. Gaskins acquiesced his scrub minutes and a good portion of his snaps to Riley to get ready "for the future." He played out the season, and came into this season the clear favorite in a lot of fans eyes, and especially the coaching staff. You aren't telling me that if he had smoked Jake in spring drills he wouldn't have been named the starter right then? Or even had a big enough lead? The coaches have already made there position clear on starting freshman, especially freshman quarterbacks. So it went to workouts, where Riley had the opportunity to work on things, and gain separation again, get his team behind him, etc. He was named the captain for offseason workouts. He came back in fall ball the clear favorite, and if he had put Jake away in a week or two would have been named the starter and Jake would have been redshirted. Riley was played with primarily the two's so he can gain confidence and stats. He couldn't put Jake away and that was when the qb2 was announced. Riley did a great job in game one, but Jake did well too. In game 2, he started again, led a couple TD drives, fumbled, and got to play the entire 2nd half all to himself, and well, we know the rest.



I am not saying that he botched all of this. He has been given many opportunities, and has made something out of a lot of them. What I am wondering, is when do they stop giving him opportunities if he doesn't succeed? Riley has been the clear coaches favorite and clear coach choice all along, despite not matching our offense and considering the caliber of talent we have behind him. So rather then was Riley set up to fail, I think it is when will the kid gloves come off? If he does fail again, does he get yet another chance to succeed?

Yeah, to suggest that Bronco wants Riley to fail in any way, shape or form goes against everything that Bronco is about. I don't think Bronco has ever coached any young man he wanted to fail in any facet of their life.



How about we turn the question around?



Why isn't Jake giving the coaches reason to go with him? What isn't Jake doing that is making the coaches hesitant to name him the primary QB? What more could Jake be doing to instill confidence in both his coaches and teammates? Why isn't Jake showing more "grit and leadership" which are clearly two important characteristics that Bronco is using to determine the QB rotation?

kitic77 wrote:
Yeah, to suggest that Bronco wants Riley to fail in any way, shape or form goes against everything that Bronco is about. I don't think Bronco has ever coached any young man he wanted to fail in any facet of their life.



How about we turn the question around?



Why isn't Jake giving the coaches reason to go with him? What isn't Jake doing that is making the coaches hesitant to name him the primary QB? What more could Jake be doing to instill confidence in both his coaches and teammates? Why isn't Jake showing more "grit and leadership" which are clearly two important characteristics that Bronco is using to determine the QB rotation?

He's a freshman. I think that answers all your questions...

BlueIsBetter wrote:

Yeah, to suggest that Bronco wants Riley to fail in any way, shape or form goes against everything that Bronco is about. I don't think Bronco has ever coached any young man he wanted to fail in any facet of their life.



How about we turn the question around?



Why isn't Jake giving the coaches reason to go with him? What isn't Jake doing that is making the coaches hesitant to name him the primary QB? What more could Jake be doing to instill confidence in both his coaches and teammates? Why isn't Jake showing more "grit and leadership" which are clearly two important characteristics that Bronco is using to determine the QB rotation?

He's a freshman. I think that answers all your questions...

Then that might leave me to believe that Jake isn't quite ready to lead the team.

kitic77 wrote:

kitic77 wrote:
Yeah, to suggest that Bronco wants Riley to fail in any way, shape or form goes against everything that Bronco is about. I don't think Bronco has ever coached any young man he wanted to fail in any facet of their life.



How about we turn the question around?



Why isn't Jake giving the coaches reason to go with him? What isn't Jake doing that is making the coaches hesitant to name him the primary QB? What more could Jake be doing to instill confidence in both his coaches and teammates? Why isn't Jake showing more "grit and leadership" which are clearly two important characteristics that Bronco is using to determine the QB rotation?

He's a freshman. I think that answers all your questions...

Then that might leave me to believe that Jake isn't quite ready to lead the team.

That was TIC.

Okay

#1. Because he's a freshnan, and the coaches don't like true freshies. Our coaches like to play it very, very safe.

#2. Freshman, see #1.

#3. His teammates have plenty of confidence in Jake, you can find 15-20 accounts of this. The coaches, have all said the same types of things. The fact he is in the mix as a freshman should tell you.

#4He's shown plenty of leadership, see #3. As far as grit, put him in a pressure situation and see if he's got any. I would think that qb's that go 40 and 1 and have mult. state titles would have some. Especially if he qb'd some of those comebacks during playoff games. On a D1 level give him a chance to show you instead of play it safe.



Grit is coachspeak... I would be very surprised if Jake didn't have the same amount, or how you even measure that.



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A couple of random thoughts:

1) There were a bunch of dropped balls in fall camp. In the UW game, it seemed to me that most of the dropped balls were thrown by Heaps, same story in the AF game, though so many balls were dropped, it was tough to keep track. It may just be that Nelson throws a soft ball and Heaps throws a hardball, and the drops are a result of the receivers not yet fully adjusting to the smoke being thrown by this freshman QB. When Heaps becomes THEE QB, the drops will go away.

2) No coach ever sets his players up to fail, but as they've said from the beginning, they're waiting for one of the QBs to separate himself--that started to happen against AF, in kind of a reverse kind of way. However, had the entire team played a great game, and only Nelson had a so-so game, BYU probably would have won the game. So kind of some bad luck for Nelson

3) I don't think there is any doubt that the coaches, the team, the fans, everybody knows Heaps is the QB of the future, and he will get there, but they want to give him experience, they don't want him to get abused physically (which he hasn't) or emotionally (which he hasn't), they'll bring him along as best they can. The coaches are not stupid, they are very likely doing the right thing.

4) Let's say Nelson has a great game against FSU, throws for 300 yards, 5 TDs and BYU wins the game. Then all this talking heads stuff is rather meaningless, the coaches are going to keep Nelson on the field. But I'm not sure Nelson is capable of throwing for 300 yards and 5 TDs.

5) Let's say Nelson starts, does poorly, doesn't move the team. Heaps goes in on the next possession, does well, throws for yards, moves the team, throws a couple TDs--the party's over, Heaps is going to be the QB for as long as he wants to be the QB at BYU. I think this is the scenario we'll see on Saturday. BYU may not win the game, but if Heaps throws for 200-300 yards, and a couple TDs, is got the job.

My biggest concern isn't so much with the QB's. It's with the coaching. BYU started off great with 14 points and had Diluigi not fumble, they could have scored 21 points. After the initial start, however, BYU went downhill, while Air Force made adjustments and began to turn the lights out on the Cougs. I'm sorry, but no effective adjustments were made in the 2nd half that resolved anything. I don't think the coaches wanted Riley to fail, but don't think Jake played any worse than Riey, the offense, or the defense. I hope they don't destroy his competitiveness with this.............

bball wrote:
It may just be that Nelson throws a soft ball and Heaps throws a hardball, and the drops are a result of the receivers not yet fully adjusting to the smoke being thrown by this freshman QB. When Heaps becomes THEE QB, the drops will go away.

This is a false criticism. No two balls are thrown with the same velocity, and the same quarterback will use a variety of velocities in delivering the ball depending on pressure, coverage, route, and adrenaline. Even if Heaps takes 100% of the snaps from here on out, the receivers are going to be catching balls traveling at different speeds. If the dropsies are a velocity issue, we are screwed either way, because it means the receivers are all blind in one eye and have no depth perception.



If the 2 QB system is contributing to the drops, it is a timing issue. Routes are drawn with the intent that the ball be delivered at certain moments when the receiver should be open depending on coverage. If the ball comes a little early or a little late, less focused receivers will have problems reacting to an unexpected delivery. I think the drops are a combination of the inordinate amount of pressure on the receiving corp to either make a big play or to not make mistakes to get or keep playing time. Rather than just letting your eyes and hands do what they do naturally, these guys are overthinking what they need to do next.

Gaskins really screwed the team over last year when he "quit" as the back-up QB.



TIC?



:whistle: