is Riley nelson physically unable to run BYU's offense

It is the prevailing opinon on this board, and in the media that Riley Nelson does not have the physical tools to be a BYU QB. Is this true? IMO it is not. I don't think that Bronco is stupid. Robert Anae has a DR's degree so he is also not stupid and Doman is a very intelligent person and probably knows BYU's offense as good as Anae does. These are some really smart people and they have decided to play Riley which leads me to believe that they believe he has the physical tools to run BYU"s offense. Did he do a good job of that on Saturday? Well, we all know the answer to that question. I still think that he has the ability to throw the ball in BYU's offense. It still is up to the recievers to catch the ball and to beat their guy and get open. Do you think the man coverage and the 8 in the box would have worked if BYU's recievers had beaten their guys and got open? Do you think that Heaps could have completed passes to guys that were being blanketed by AF's db's? I don't buy the argument that Riley is physically unable or smart guys like Bronco, Anae and Doman would have put him at the end of the bench by now.

Agreed. I think to this point, the coaches have not really put either QB in a position to fully succeed. They have limited Jake's effectiveness by limiting his reps and not allowing him to get a rhythm. They have limited Riley, by allowing him to run too much. And teammates have done neither QB a favor by turning the ball over, fumbling and dropping highly catchable balls.

Riley is somewhat capable of running the style of offense they have developed for him. However, he is physically and mentally (or, likely some combination of the two) incapable of running the traditional BYU offense. End of story.

Yeah, we always want our qb's to get less than 100 yards passing. That was the gameplan all along. Good thinking. And If Jake didn't get in Riley's way, he would have had opportunity to run the ball MORE, and get more than a 1:1 run per pass attempt. That is what we need to do here at BYU, "throw" away 40 years of the way we are doing things, because it clearly hasn't been working for us.



And our receivers can not, and will not get separation. We shouldn't be gameplanning for that, because historically we don't have the kind of player. Collie is our best, and fastest receiver probably in the history of the program, and even he was average at releasing. So throw that out of your expectations. We don't get burners here at BYU, to current date.

Coaches botched it. They should have picked one whoever it was and gave them time to succeed. The two qb stuff is a circus.



I personally don't think Riley has it. i think Heaps and/or lark would do better than him. I don't think Riley would even start over borel at Utah State.



He is a good athlete but not a great qb.



While he has room for improvement (not just running it so dang much and actually checking his receivers before he throws as well as learning how to throw better) why would we wait around for him to improve when you have lark and heaps who are in the same boat. both of them have more upside and fit our system.



I personally think he was exposed on Saturday. I know that he can improve but he can't pass pass 15 yard and when he can't do that they are going to keep stacking the box. He is limited. He is a good qb but heaps or lark are much better.



he should be situation guy ala tebow/leak or a safety :) We could really use him at safety. He like to hit, he's smart, and would be great there. I know that wont happen but i think nelson's time as qb should be over. he is not byu's future.



I am excited for this weeks game. Hope we can keep it close.

kitic77 wrote:
Agreed. I think to this point, the coaches have not really put either QB in a position to fully succeed. They have limited Jake's effectiveness by limiting his reps and not allowing him to get a rhythm. They have limited Riley, by allowing him to run too much. And teammates have done neither QB a favor by turning the ball over, fumbling and dropping highly catchable balls.

I think he is running because he doesn't feel comfortable making the throws. Even bronco noted he wasn't going through his progressions. he is not ready and possibly not capable at running the byu offense the way it should be run.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
Yeah, we always want our qb's to get less than 100 yards passing. That was the gameplan all along. Good thinking. And If Jake didn't get in Riley's way, he would have had opportunity to run the ball MORE, and get more than a 1:1 run per pass attempt. That is what we need to do here at BYU, "throw" away 40 years of the way we are doing things, because it clearly hasn't been working for us.



And our receivers can not, and will not get separation. We shouldn't be gameplanning for that, because historically we don't have the kind of player. Collie is our best, and fastest receiver probably in the history of the program, and even he was average at releasing. So throw that out of your expectations. We don't get burners here at BYU, to current date.

Can you show me ANYWHERE on this board where I stated your scenario above as to being a winning scenario?

frdbtr wrote:

Yeah, we always want our qb's to get less than 100 yards passing. That was the gameplan all along. Good thinking. And If Jake didn't get in Riley's way, he would have had opportunity to run the ball MORE, and get more than a 1:1 run per pass attempt. That is what we need to do here at BYU, "throw" away 40 years of the way we are doing things, because it clearly hasn't been working for us.



And our receivers can not, and will not get separation. We shouldn't be gameplanning for that, because historically we don't have the kind of player. Collie is our best, and fastest receiver probably in the history of the program, and even he was average at releasing. So throw that out of your expectations. We don't get burners here at BYU, to current date.

Can you show me ANYWHERE on this board where I stated your scenario above as to being a winning scenario?

You didn't the first half was TIC for all the Nelson apologists. It's a joke mostly, a lot of people are showing numbers that Riley is passing better, and Bronco needs to "pick one" As to the second part of my post:

And our receivers can not, and will not get separation. We shouldn't be gameplanning for that, because historically we don't have the kind of player. Collie is our best, and fastest receiver probably in the history of the program, and even he was average at releasing. So throw that out of your expectations. We don't get burners here at BYU, to current date.

you mentioned several times that our receivers need to get open better, and even if they stack the box they need to do a better job of getting open, and I was just saying that, if they are playing man against us, there is a good chance that our receivers don't get open. Most our receivers make catches because they find holes in zone coverage. When we play straight man, we get out defended, a lot. We just don't have the type of receiver that goes one on one and beats his man, especially deep. We normally have a taller, slower, very good hands, possesion type of receiver. Ben Cahoon, Michael Reed, if you will. That is why we don't have NFL receivers, because they are already slower at this level, and beyond slow in an nfl context. I hate to over-generalize but that is pretty much the case. AC was an anomaly, we never got that type of guy, and even he is a step slow in the NFL (but freaking good, anyways!!!). So just don't count on getting separation, unless it is a 5 yard post to the inside. That's all I'm saying there.



So... yeah.

This is my opinion. Bronco needs to name a clear starter and get the process of the team uniting around that one person going. If he waits much longer and we have another loss all hell is going to break loose. He is going to lose control of his players. They will divide and it will cause serious problems. we can have that with the next three games on our schedule. they could all beat us.



W cannot lose four games in a row. Bronco needs to stop standing by and get on top of the qb situation.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

BlueIsBetter wrote:
Yeah, we always want our qb's to get less than 100 yards passing. That was the gameplan all along. Good thinking. And If Jake didn't get in Riley's way, he would have had opportunity to run the ball MORE, and get more than a 1:1 run per pass attempt. That is what we need to do here at BYU, "throw" away 40 years of the way we are doing things, because it clearly hasn't been working for us.



And our receivers can not, and will not get separation. We shouldn't be gameplanning for that, because historically we don't have the kind of player. Collie is our best, and fastest receiver probably in the history of the program, and even he was average at releasing. So throw that out of your expectations. We don't get burners here at BYU, to current date.

Can you show me ANYWHERE on this board where I stated your scenario above as to being a winning scenario?

You didn't the first half was TIC for all the Nelson apologists. It's a joke mostly, a lot of people are showing numbers that Riley is passing better, and Bronco needs to "pick one" As to the second part of my post:

And our receivers can not, and will not get separation. We shouldn't be gameplanning for that, because historically we don't have the kind of player. Collie is our best, and fastest receiver probably in the history of the program, and even he was average at releasing. So throw that out of your expectations. We don't get burners here at BYU, to current date.

you mentioned several times that our receivers need to get open better, and even if they stack the box they need to do a better job of getting open, and I was just saying that, if they are playing man against us, there is a good chance that our receivers don't get open. Most our receivers make catches because they find holes in zone coverage. When we play straight man, we get out defended, a lot. We just don't have the type of receiver that goes one on one and beats his man, especially deep. We normally have a taller, slower, very good hands, possesion type of receiver. Ben Cahoon, Michael Reed, if you will. That is why we don't have NFL receivers, because they are already slower at this level, and beyond slow in an nfl context. I hate to over-generalize but that is pretty much the case. AC was an anomaly, we never got that type of guy, and even he is a step slow in the NFL (but freaking good, anyways!!!). So just don't count on getting separation, unless it is a 5 yard post to the inside. That's all I'm saying there.



So... yeah.

Sooo, then why haven't ALL teams played man coverage on us? If our recievers have only killed teams playing zone and we lose to teams that play man, why don't all teams play man and beat us? your premise is flawed from the beginning. BYU has always been a precision offense based on precise route running. You can't play man on because our guys will kill you with route running. Getting open isn't just being able to run past your guy, getting open is running a route that shakes off the defender. Not everyone has the ability to do this. AF showed this ability last week.

jonnylingo wrote:
This is my opinion. Bronco needs to name a clear starter and get the process of the team uniting around that one person going. If he waits much longer and we have another loss all hell is going to break loose. He is going to lose control of his players. They will divide and it will cause serious problems. we can have that with the next three games on our schedule. they could all beat us.



W cannot lose four games in a row. Bronco needs to stop standing by and get on top of the qb situation.

This is my opinion as well. I really don't care who it is. I have been defending Riley because I think that most of the generalizations about his abilities are way off base. I do have reservations about starting Heaps because he is a freshman and may not handle the backlash from the fans and media well if he makes mistakes that cost us wins. But the bottom line is, we need to trash the 2 QB system.

frdbtr wrote:



Sooo, then why haven't ALL teams played man coverage on us? If our recievers have only killed teams playing zone and we lose to teams that play man, why don't all teams play man and beat us? your premise is flawed from the beginning. BYU has always been a precision offense based on precise route running. You can't play man on because our guys will kill you with route running. Getting open isn't just being able to run past your guy, getting open is running a route that shakes off the defender. Not everyone has the ability to do this. AF showed this ability last week.

Because we have had a qb that can throw better than they can defend. Max hall didn't gain all those yards and wins because he had a cannon. He had placement. Think of all the tight throws he made the last 2 years. Those were in man coverage. The receivers had just enough separation, to thread the needle but just barely. It's starting to come back to you now, huh?



Riley does not have that arm, or that placement. And so, Air Force happens, even IF he is looking to throw.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

Sooo, then why haven't ALL teams played man coverage on us? If our recievers have only killed teams playing zone and we lose to teams that play man, why don't all teams play man and beat us? your premise is flawed from the beginning. BYU has always been a precision offense based on precise route running. You can't play man on because our guys will kill you with route running. Getting open isn't just being able to run past your guy, getting open is running a route that shakes off the defender. Not everyone has the ability to do this. AF showed this ability last week.

Because we have had a qb that can throw better than they can defend. Max hall didn't gain all those yards and wins because he had a cannon. He had placement. Think of all the tight throws he made the last 2 years. Those were in man coverage. It's starting to come back to you now, huh?

I saw a lot of wide open recievers the last few years, man or zone. Max Hall was better at reading the defense and checking into plays that work. Even the AF defenders mentioned that was something that killed them with Max at QB. Our young players aren't doing that yet. Once again, a product of the 2 qb system, not because our wide outs are slow, not because Riley can't thow past his own O-line, but because they aren't reading the defense correctly and making the correct calls. When Riley's plays break down, he tucks and runs. When Heaps' plays break down he throws interceptions. I have said all along that I just want them to pick a guy and give him the ball. I don't buy into the opinion that Riley does not have the physical tools to run the offense. That is the whole point of this thread.

frdbtr wrote:

frdbtr wrote:



Sooo, then why haven't ALL teams played man coverage on us? If our recievers have only killed teams playing zone and we lose to teams that play man, why don't all teams play man and beat us? your premise is flawed from the beginning. BYU has always been a precision offense based on precise route running. You can't play man on because our guys will kill you with route running. Getting open isn't just being able to run past your guy, getting open is running a route that shakes off the defender. Not everyone has the ability to do this. AF showed this ability last week.

Because we have had a qb that can throw better than they can defend. Max hall didn't gain all those yards and wins because he had a cannon. He had placement. Think of all the tight throws he made the last 2 years. Those were in man coverage. It's starting to come back to you now, huh?

I saw a lot of wide open recievers the last few years, man or zone. Max Hall was better at reading the defense and checking into plays that work. Even the AF defenders mentioned that was something that killed them with Max at QB. Our young players aren't doing that yet. Once again, a product of the 2 qb system, not because our wide outs are slow, not because Riley can't thow past his own O-line, but because they aren't reading the defense correctly and making the correct calls. When Riley's plays break down, he tucks and runs. When Heaps' plays break down he throws interceptions. I have said all along that I just want them to pick a guy and give him the ball. I don't buy into the opinion that Riley does not have the physical tools to run the offense. That is the whole point of this thread.

one thing we can agree on is just pick one and have him start getting all the reps. the two is just slowing down both of them.

riley tucks and runs a lot more often than jake throws interceptions... that is a gross mis-representation. Unless you are saying that Riley's plays break down all the time, and Jake's have only broken down once. Either is untrue.



The receivers you saw wide open were in zone, or a lapse in man-coverage, we simply don't get a lot of separation. But whatever, agree to disagree on that.



Riley cannot run the same offense that Max ran and Beck before him. He simply does not have all the tools. He can kind of run his modified version of the offense until they gameplan against him, which is what you saw at Air Force. We throw to open up the run at BYU, not always the other way around.

And I disagree that people would turn on Jake if he has a bad game. Most people understand that this is a re-building year, and the general discontent is that we haven't started laying down the bricks yet. If that was true, a lot of people would be more made at Jake throwing a pick, then Riley playing the rest of the game.

If Steve Young could do it, then anyone can do it. Steve was a terrible thrower out of high school, but he worked tirelessly at it from day one.



Yes, Nelson can do it, but is there enough time? It appears he has neglected improving his throwing during his first 2 years, and we are already 2 games into his junior year.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
And I disagree that people would turn on Jake if he has a bad game. Most people understand that this is a re-building year, and the general discontent is that we haven't started laying down the bricks yet. If that was true, a lot of people would be more made at Jake throwing a pick, then Riley playing the rest of the game.

i agree, they discontent wont be anywhere it is for riley. people think heaps is everything. his mistakes will simply be chalked up to he is a freshman. if riley makes a mistake people will start yelling heaps because of his recruiting status and star power. riley is in a tougher spot than jake to perform. jake has time. riley doesn't. for riley he must perform and gets wins or people will want his head.

jonnylingo wrote:

And I disagree that people would turn on Jake if he has a bad game. Most people understand that this is a re-building year, and the general discontent is that we haven't started laying down the bricks yet. If that was true, a lot of people would be more made at Jake throwing a pick, then Riley playing the rest of the game.

i agree, they discontent wont be anywhere it is for riley. people think heaps is everything. his mistakes will simply be chalked up to he is a freshman. if riley makes a mistake people will start yelling heaps because of his recruiting status and star power. riley is in a tougher spot than jake to perform. jake has time. riley doesn't. for riley he must perform and gets wins or people will want his head.

I think that those type of blanket statements are just fear mongering from the left....handers. ;)

frdbtr wrote:
It is the prevailing opinon on this board, and in the media that Riley Nelson does not have the physical tools to be a BYU QB. Is this true? IMO it is not. I don't think that Bronco is stupid. Robert Anae has a DR's degree so he is also not stupid and Doman is a very intelligent person and probably knows BYU's offense as good as Anae does. These are some really smart people and they have decided to play Riley which leads me to believe that they believe he has the physical tools to run BYU"s offense. Did he do a good job of that on Saturday? Well, we all know the answer to that question. I still think that he has the ability to throw the ball in BYU's offense. It still is up to the recievers to catch the ball and to beat their guy and get open. Do you think the man coverage and the 8 in the box would have worked if BYU's recievers had beaten their guys and got open? Do you think that Heaps could have completed passes to guys that were being blanketed by AF's db's? I don't buy the argument that Riley is physically unable or smart guys like Bronco, Anae and Doman would have put him at the end of the bench by now.

Sorry but your logic just does not fly about "smart" coaches. In fact it's silly. I don't care if they all have Post-doctorate degree from Oxford; what does that have to do with their football decisions? What you fail to compute is that perhaps they are putting Nelson in to give him a final chance to succeed and if he doesn't, then it's Heaps here on out with Riley coming in situationally. You blame the receivers for Nelson's performance but not for Heaps'. Jake is been far more affected by sorry drops than Nelson has. Assuming Nelson does start this game, this is his final stage to be named permanent starter because if he fails at FSU I think the coaches are "smart" enough to see that his hot-route read then check-off to scramble technique is not what the offense is designed to be.