To add to the pile

1. We should have NEVER moved forward with the 2 QB system. Bronco was simply wrong, and the results of that mistake will continue to be bear out. Mostly, the receivers look horrible PRIMARILY because they do not get enough reps with Jake Heaps.



2. Steven Thomas is simply not a D1 athlete.



3. Luke Ashworth should not be on the field.



4. Riley Nelson needs to hold a clipboard, not a football.



5. Jamison Frazier needs to yield the position to KVN.

mcgregor wrote:
1. We should have NEVER moved forward with the 2 QB system. Bronco was simply wrong, and the results of that mistake will continue to be bear out. Mostly, the receivers look horrible PRIMARILY because they do not get enough reps with Jake Heaps.



2. Steven Thomas is simply not a D1 athlete.



3. Luke Ashworth should not be on the field.



4. Riley Nelson needs to hold a clipboard, not a football.



5. Jamison Frazier needs to yield the position to KVN.

Ashworth has been a big disappointment for me, I admit I expected him to shine this year.

mcgregor wrote:
Mostly, the receivers look horrible PRIMARILY because they do not get enough reps with Jake Heaps.

DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING



Is Nelson a talented kid? Yes. Does he help the strengths of our offense shine through? No. Does he retard the progress of our other offensive players? Yes.

This comes down to coaching. We got demolished in the coaching category and the BYU coaches made awful decisions. They need to take this one on the chin and learn from their mistakes.



Mistakes in personnel, gameplan, and preparation

craigoscarson wrote:
This comes down to coaching. We got demolished in the coaching category and the BYU coaches made awful decisions. They need to take this one on the chin and learn from their mistakes.



Mistakes in personnel, gameplan, and preparation

Moreover, when they made adjustments, they made at least one of them in the wrong direction.

mcgregor wrote:
1. We should have NEVER moved forward with the 2 QB system. Bronco was simply wrong, and the results of that mistake will continue to be bear out. Mostly, the receivers look horrible PRIMARILY because they do not get enough reps with Jake Heaps.







4. Riley Nelson needs to hold a clipboard, not a football.

Thank you Mcgregor. Thank you for saying this. You have been respected enough on this board and back on Cougarboard that people might actually listen.



I also agree with the other points you made but chose to highlight these two.

mcgregor wrote:

This comes down to coaching. We got demolished in the coaching category and the BYU coaches made awful decisions. They need to take this one on the chin and learn from their mistakes.



Mistakes in personnel, gameplan, and preparation

Moreover, when they made adjustments, they made at least one of them in the wrong direction.

Brethren...I am as mad as I have ever been watching Cougar football. Last week I told my neighbor that I think Riley Nelson has been very fortunate to move the football team and that the offense, while volatile, is at BEST inconsistent when he plays.



This week, I found myself wondering the following...



Point A: It is readily and easily apparent that Riley Nelson cannot throw consistent and accurate passes, even within five yards. When a pass is longer than ten yards and is accurate, it typically sails and allows the defense to recover and break up the pass.



Point B: After a defense watches Riley run all over them for a couple of possessions, it is pretty easy and predictable to make some simple adjustments that load up the box and wait for Riley to implode in the passing game.



Point C: After that adjustment is made and is effective, it will therefore reduce the effectiveness of the running game for the running backs because the defense is simply begging for the offense to beat them through the air.



Point D: After the adjustment is made, the BYU coaching staff makes no counter adjustments and sails to three consecutive quarters of scoreless football along with a second half of near complete three-and-out possessions.



To be honest, I felt like I did after the Utah game in 2008...just inversed.



A couple of hypotheses that I would like to verify:



#1 - I bet the offense has many more penalties against them when Riley plays.

#2 - I suspect that the RB average yards per rush is much higher when Heaps is playing.



Final observations:



#1 - I fail to understand the rotation at RB. I don't see any competitive advantage in using Kariya. Furthermore, I don't understand why DiLuigi is leading the team in big plays but sharing the workload evenly with the other two.

#2 - I am concerned about the coaching staff's response to BOTH the Heaps interception and the DiLuigi fumble.

#3 - The whole thing with Riley Nelson and the two quarterbacks feels so...dare I say it...Crowton-esque. In fact, the infatuation with Nelson feels Lance Pendleton to me. We have suddenly gone all cutesie....and truly, if we are better with precision execution sustained over time...if we watch both the Washington and Air Force game film, does anyone really believe that Nelson provided better consistency than Heaps? To ask the same question in a more positive fashion, when taking into account all of the film this year, hasn't Heaps drives looked more precise, deliberate, and intentional?



Someone on the BYU offensive Coaching Staff needs to be held accountable. This stuff is obvious to everyone who watches.



J

At least the BYU loss has been overshadowed nationally by much bigger upsets in college football today. Lots of news headlines that don't include BYU losing to AFA.



It seems like the AFA that played today is probably good enough to beat everyone in the MWC except TCU. At least I hope they're good. It would make losing to them suck less.



Going to work on Monday is going to be unbearable with all the AFA grads around.

CAFB_04-12 wrote:
At least the BYU loss has been overshadowed nationally by much bigger upsets in college football today. Lots of news headlines that don't include BYU losing to AFA.



It seems like the AFA that played today is probably good enough to beat everyone in the MWC except TCU. At least I hope they're good. It would make losing to them suck less.



Going to work on Monday is going to be unbearable with all the AFA grads around.

Because it wasn't an upset; this game on 9/11 at the academy was a push; and had we not lost our composure early we still could have won it. Credit to Air Force, they kept their cool and executed their game plan. We ran around like headless chickens... (that includes the coaches)



It's clear that AFA prepared for us all summer and it's also clear that we prepared for washington; if we're going to get beat the way we did today, I' rather see us take our shots at the endzone with Heaps and blitz and throw some high risk defensive moves that might leave us exposed but more likely could get a stop behind the line of scrimmage.



It was a wishy washy vanilla performance by BYUs coaches and players.

I think I posted the exact same sentiments as mcgregor just after the game on many points. They were glaringly obvious. Only guy I did not single out was Frazier, because I thought he was ok overall, but man, I want to say it again--Thomas was AWFUL. If you rewatch this one, watch Thomas closely. His run support was horrible and the reason AFA killed us on the edges. He could not get to the runner and typically ended up whiffing and off balance, often losing his feet after missing the play. He looked tentative. When Travis Uale came in late, he looked faster, more assertive and contained the edges much better. I expect to see Uale play more now, and he doesn't I will seriously wonder why because Thomas was just that bad.



For all you guys wondering why Riley struggled so much, let me explain it to you. AFA usually plays a 3-4 like us. But once Riley stayed in, the adjusted to a 4-3 and gap blitzed from all over the field to take away the Riley running because they had ZERO respect for his passing. As has been mentioned all over this board, Riley is run first, missed many wide open guys, floated passes, and AFA knew he could not bat them with the pass. Expect more of this all year long if we go with Riley because he does not buy time to pass, he pulls it down to run. It is his tendency. Teams will pack the line, like AFA did, and stick 8 guys close to the line of scrimmage knowing BYU won't hurt them downfield with Riley in. Sorry, it is the fact of the matter. 20 rushes and 19 passes back it up. A BYU QB should NEVER have a 1 to 1 ratio on pass and throw. EVER. Even Doman was over 3 to 1 in 2001.



BYU also had 6 fall start penalties with Riley, 0 with Jake. The team looked beat late and rolled over, which should never happen with a passing team. Except with Riley, we are no passing team. It is time to give Jake a full game at FSU to see what he can do. After seeing Oklahoma throw it all over FSU, it gives us the best chance to win. Name him starter, give him the reps, and let's take the kid gloves off of him. Time to give Heaps the rope Riley hung himself with Saturday.

pjmuli wrote:



#3 - The whole thing with Riley Nelson and the two quarterbacks feels so...dare I say it...Crowton-esque.In fact, the infatuation with Nelson feels Lance Pendleton to me. We have suddenly gone all cutesie....and truly, if we are better with precision execution sustained over time...if we watch both the Washington and Air Force game film, does anyone really believe that Nelson provided better consistency than Heaps? To ask the same question in a more positive fashion, when taking into account all of the film this year, hasn't Heaps drives looked more precise, deliberate, and intentional?



Someone on the BYU offensive Coaching Staff needs to be held accountable. This stuff is obvious to everyone who watches.



J

I was thinking the same thing. Not so much that we have the 2 QB system but how it has been run. If it's going to work it needs to be situational.

The 2 QB system only works from the fans' perspective if the team wins.. EVEN if they win despite the 2 QB system (which was the case last week IMO). But the notion was that last vs UW it was the one two punch that kept em off guard. This week it was our downfall. I'm sure this same thought goes on in the players' heads as well. To me, that is the biggest problem. If the team doesn't win, players start to divide up into the Heaps and Nelson camps. BAD for team unity.. which seems to have been a strength of Bronco's teams in the past.

All I know is that Brian Logan said after this game that last year the team cheered for each other, and he mentioned it after the UW game. He said that was missing in the AFA game. If you think the players don;t get excited about th talent Heaps has, you are kidding yourself. For some reason, teh team did not rally around Riley in teh 2nd half, and with all the talk about him being such a huge leader, that makes zero sense to me. I do not think Riley has the team behind him and it is really that simple. He is limited, everyone knows it, everyone sees it, and it causes doubts. I had zero faith in him in the 4th yesterday, and tell me the last time you did not think a BYU QB was capable of getting hot and rallying the team? Crowton era, that's when. And when it was Pendleton or Brown.

We didn't have a true 2 qb rotation. They picked one, which isn't a big deal, but they picked the wrong one, which is. You don't continue to go with the guy that has led to 4 straight 3 and outs, has the weaker and less accurate arm, and is throwing into the wind. And not putting Jake in (the future of our program, if not the best present day starter) when we were down 21 with 8:00 to go is asinine. Put him in, if for no other reason than to get game experience and snaps, because you are already burning his RS. Why would you penalize a kid for throwing a pick, and not a more senior kid with more years in the program for a fumble? a turnover is a turnover. It took JJ 2 before he got the door slammed (one turnover). And Chambers had 2 last week (none turned over).

Lawboy wrote:
All I know is that Brian Logan said after this game that last year the team cheered for each other, and he mentioned it after the UW game. He said that was missing in the AFA game. If you think the players don;t get excited about th talent Heaps has, you are kidding yourself. For some reason, teh team did not rally around Riley in teh 2nd half, and with all the talk about him being such a huge leader, that makes zero sense to me. I do not think Riley has the team behind him and it is really that simple. He is limited, everyone knows it, everyone sees it, and it causes doubts. I had zero faith in him in the 4th yesterday, and tell me the last time you did not think a BYU QB was capable of getting hot and rallying the team? Crowton era, that's when. And when it was Pendleton or Brown.

Engeman and Brown?

BlueIsBetter wrote:

All I know is that Brian Logan said after this game that last year the team cheered for each other, and he mentioned it after the UW game. He said that was missing in the AFA game. If you think the players don;t get excited about th talent Heaps has, you are kidding yourself. For some reason, teh team did not rally around Riley in teh 2nd half, and with all the talk about him being such a huge leader, that makes zero sense to me. I do not think Riley has the team behind him and it is really that simple. He is limited, everyone knows it, everyone sees it, and it causes doubts. I had zero faith in him in the 4th yesterday, and tell me the last time you did not think a BYU QB was capable of getting hot and rallying the team? Crowton era, that's when. And when it was Pendleton or Brown.

Engeman and Brown?

Bret Engemann, Lance Pendleton, and Jackson Brown... those are some real blasts from the past. Don't forget Todd Mortensen...

Lawboy wrote:



For all you guys wondering why Riley struggled so much, let me explain it to you. AFA usually plays a 3-4 like us. But once Riley stayed in, the adjusted to a 4-3 and gap blitzed from all over the field to take away the Riley running because they had ZERO respect for his passing. As has been mentioned all over this board, Riley is run first, missed many wide open guys, floated passes, and AFA knew he could not bat them with the pass. Expect more of this all year long if we go with Riley because he does not buy time to pass, he pulls it down to run. It is his tendency. Teams will pack the line, like AFA did, and stick 8 guys close to the line of scrimmage knowing BYU won't hurt them downfield with Riley in. Sorry, it is the fact of the matter. 20 rushes and 19 passes back it up. A BYU QB should NEVER have a 1 to 1 ratio on pass and throw. EVER. Even Doman was over 3 to 1 in 2001.



BYU also had 6 fall start penalties with Riley, 0 with Jake. The team looked beat late and rolled over, which should never happen with a passing team. Except with Riley, we are no passing team. It is time to give Jake a full game at FSU to see what he can do.

This is probably the best synopsis I've seen on the QB situation yet - particularly the bold section. I agree 100%.

mcgregor wrote:
1. We should have NEVER moved forward with the 2 QB system. Bronco was simply wrong, and the results of that mistake will continue to be bear out. Mostly, the receivers look horrible PRIMARILY because they do not get enough reps with Jake Heaps.



2. Steven Thomas is simply not a D1 athlete.



3. Luke Ashworth should not be on the field.



4. Riley Nelson needs to hold a clipboard, not a football.



5. Jamison Frazier needs to yield the position to KVN.

I completely agree with everything except number 3. All the receivers have been bad so why do you highlight Ashworth? I partially agree with number 4. Heaps should definitely be the starter but I do think we should utilize Nelson and certain plays here and there. Heck you may even think about moving Riley to RB. He would probably be better there. And Thomas is just plain terrible.

nc-puma wrote:
The 2 QB system only works from the fans' perspective if the team wins.. EVEN if they win despite the 2 QB system (which was the case last week IMO). But the notion was that last vs UW it was the one two punch that kept em off guard. This week it was our downfall. I'm sure this same thought goes on in the players' heads as well. To me, that is the biggest problem. If the team doesn't win, players start to divide up into the Heaps and Nelson camps. BAD for team unity.. which seems to have been a strength of Bronco's teams in the past.

Uh...we didn't play a full 2 QB system yesterday. Heaps had, what 2 series?

Short_Change wrote:

1. We should have NEVER moved forward with the 2 QB system. Bronco was simply wrong, and the results of that mistake will continue to be bear out. Mostly, the receivers look horrible PRIMARILY because they do not get enough reps with Jake Heaps.



2. Steven Thomas is simply not a D1 athlete.



3. Luke Ashworth should not be on the field.



4. Riley Nelson needs to hold a clipboard, not a football.



5. Jamison Frazier needs to yield the position to KVN.

I completely agree with everything except number 3. All the receivers have been bad so why do you highlight Ashworth? I partially agree with number 4. Heaps should definitely be the starter but I do think we should utilize Nelson and certain plays here and there. Heck you may even think about moving Riley to RB. He would probably be better there. And Thomas is just plain terrible.

He gave up on a very catchable route deep route when Heaps threw it deep -seemingly on the money. Just gave up on it. He should've been benched right there, but they let him play, and so he proceeded to drop more balls. This is why he is - in many people's books - on the hot seat.