BYU/Utah Rivalry Analogy

I haven't been an avid poster on here (or anywhere else for that matter), but I have enjoyed reading comments over the years from many of you. I have never liked reading super negative posts about other teams, including Utah. As I wrote in another post last week, I actually graduated from Utah (only because BYU wouldn't take my academic performance). However, I have always been a devoted BYU fan. There was a time when I was back in school that I hated some teams, including Utah.



However, I have grown and matured in some ways (not in other ways). So here's my analogy:



I have a friend who was harrassed and picked on much of her life by her sister. My friend had the talent and beauty as well as the spiritual strength to keep moving forward in life and her sister was extremely jealous and insecure about all of this. Because I saw how unkind and hurtful the sister was, I began to hate this sister. I saw her go out of her way to be difficult.



Over the years, I learned she had serious personal problems. She had drug problems, bi-polar disorder, and annorexia. She had her own serious emotional and spiritual wounds that got in the way of a happy life. One day I pondered the idea of forgiving her. I realized I was not helping the matter by thinking so negatively of her. So I got in touch with her and let her know I wanted to forgive her and that I wanted her to be happy. We had some great conversations and the forgiveness became very real and healing for both of us.



Today she still has some personal challenges, but she has grown and matured in many ways. She doesn't fight with her sister anymore and they actually have a decent relationship. I wasn't the only one who forgave, there were others who stepped up and aided in her healing process.



You see, once I realized she was wounded and challenged, I realized I was the one who had the problem. It was easy to forgive her because I had seen my own ugliness in the situation.



This is how I feel about Utah. Of course many Ute fans hate us. BYU has been the one to get recognition all these years. BYU has been more talented overall over the last 40 years or so. On average, BYU has had a higher level of academics. BYU has the firesides and the Church's overseeing strength. And also true is the scripture that says where much is given, much is required. BYU's whole design seeks to fulfill that scripture day by day.



So how are we better as BYU fans when we act the same way as Utah fans. When we name call or insult in whatever way, we are no better than Utah. It may only be a sport, but it sure takes up a lot of time in our lives when we spew forth the same muck we see from other teams fans.



Nothing can touch BYU if we just put our attention and focus on representing BYU well as fans, players, administrators, and alumni. I wish so badly I could have been a BYU student. What an honor it must have been for you who have gone and graduated from there with your various degrees. I admire your academic and honor code excellence.



At the same token, I hope Utah succeeds as well. I root for BYU over Utah because that is in my heart, my blood, and my passion. But Utah takes nothing away from me because Utah can never duplicate who BYU is. There is no place like BYU, Dorothy! May we all embrace the best that BYU is and forget the rest.

sandiegoblue wrote:

So how are we better as BYU fans when we act the same way as Utah fans. When we name call or insult in whatever way, we are no better than Utah. It may only be a sport, but it sure takes up a lot of time in our lives when we spew forth the same muck we see from other teams fans.



Nothing can touch BYU if we just put our attention and focus on representing BYU well as fans, players, administrators, and alumni. I wish so badly I could have been a BYU student. What an honor it must have been for you who have gone and graduated from there with your various degrees. I admire your academic and honor code excellence.



At the same token, I hope Utah succeeds as well. I root for BYU over Utah because that is in my heart, my blood, and my passion. But Utah takes nothing away from me because Utah can never duplicate who BYU is. There is no place like BYU, Dorothy! May we all embrace the best that BYU is and forget the rest.

Man I have to agree with that. Sometimes we all need to take a step back and realize it is just a game and that there are really good people on both sides of this rivalry. Also, based on your outlook on the whole thing, we would be proud to have you as an alumni and truly represent what BYU stands for.

Thanks Y-Town! I just piggy-back on my wife's BYU degree to get that extra surge of blue when I need it.

Go to the game in Rice Eccles this year, wearing a Max Hall jersey... tell me what your experience is like, and then feel free to get as preachy as you want afterwards.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
Go to the game in Rice Eccles this year, wearing a Max Hall jersey... tell me what your experience is like, and then feel free to get as preachy as you want.

Man that is the whole point. I don't doubt that you'll get yelled at and the like with your scenario as I personally have been there with a BYU shirt on at a non BYU game and have had it happen to me, this whole thing has got way out of control. Why is it when we have played someone like Notre Dame and no matter the outcome of the game fans are able to stay classy on both sides? I would bet that even after we have played them every year for the next six that it will still be that way.



Just take a step back and realize it is just a game. It might take you being the bigger man for several years, but if more of us acted that way things with the U will start to get back to being competitive but fun and enjoyable.

I have been the bigger man for most of my life going to these games... I don't swear at opposing fans the whole game in a drunken fervor, and I haven't ever poured beer on the opposing team's fans.



I understand that it is a he-said she-said scenario, but the OP has obviously never been to a Utah game as a BYU fan. So he preaches tolerance and understanding, well I would like him to understand what I have been forced to tolerate.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
Go to the game in Rice Eccles this year, wearing a Max Hall jersey... tell me what your experience is like, and then feel free to get as preachy as you want afterwards.

BlueIsBetter, I can only imagine the horrible experiences you have had with Ute fans. I wouldn't dare discount the frustration you must have felt in those situations. In fact and to your point, I have never gone to Rice Eccles to watch Utah against BYU. I don't have any desire to be there for that game as I can enjoy it much better on TV without all of the emotional combustion. I have been to several games when Utah comes to BYU to play, but obviously that's quite a different experience. I do remember the hatred I saw towards BYU when I was a student at Utah back in the early 90s.



So it's not for me to tell you how to think and live. If I came across preachy, I apologize. That was not my intent, but I can see how it looked that way. I felt a desire to express my own learning process and leave it for others to consider it and keep or toss out as waste. But no disrespect to you for your lousy experiences with Ute fans.



Thanks for your perspective!

BlueIsBetter wrote:
I have been the bigger man for most of my life going to these games... I don't swear at opposing fans the whole game in a drunken fervor, and I haven't ever poured beer on the opposing team's fans.



I understand that it is a he-said she-said scenario, but the OP has obviously never been to a Utah game as a BYU fan. So he preaches tolerance and understanding, well I would like him to understand what I have been forced to tolerate.

My wife sat in the MUSS the year BYU won the 4-and-18 game. Said nobody was THRILLED she was there, but also said that everybody showed her basic human decency.



I like focusing on the Utah element that I can't stand: the particular classless faction of fans, moments in history that they were clearly in the wrong, negative reactions after losses, etc. I think that's what makes a rivalry fun. (Maybe it's not Christlike, maybe that's something I should grow out of.) But I think it's important to recognize that a good faction of Ute students/players/fans do NOT conform to that particular description.

My hope is that with Utah in the PAC12 and BYU independent that the rivalry will mellow a little bit.



A large part of the banter was about who beat Wyoming by more points and who beat New Mexico by a bigger margin and who lost to TCU by a smaller margin :lol:



Both schools have moved on to bigger and better things and the nastiness and personal shots don't have a place in all of it.



Now Utah could be playing USC and BYU could be playing Texas in the same week and I just don't feel what we're doing and what you're doing is not so dang intertwined and subject to comparison.

MTM wrote:
My hope is that with Utah in the PAC12 and BYU independent that the rivalry will mellow a little bit.



A large part of the banter was about who beat Wyoming by more points and who beat New Mexico by a bigger margin and who lost to TCU by a smaller margin :lol:



Both schools have moved on to bigger and better things and the nastiness and personal shots don't have a place in all of it.



Now Utah could be playing USC and BYU could be playing Texas in the same week and I just don't feel what we're doing and what you're doing is not so dang intertwined and subject to comparison.

I hope so... but all Utah fans aren't as level headed as you, MTM. You need to teach classes.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

I hope so... but all Utah fans aren't as level headed as you, MTM. You need to teach classes.

MTM is a great addition to this board. He is level headed and is full of integrity. I wish all opposing fans were like MTM.

Back in the 70's I competed as a diver on the swim/dive team. Even for the swimmers, Utah was our biggest rival. The meets against Utah were a big deal for us. My wife really didn't like the Utah divers. What was funny was that the same attitude didn't exist for me. Sure, we wanted to win, but we were also friends. I wanted to win by performing well, not by having my competitor perform poorly. I think the lack of civility and boorish behavior is largely made up of fans that get their emotions up about the wrong things.



I like the way this thread started. We all need a reminder that it's "just a game". 8)

sandiegoblue wrote:

Go to the game in Rice Eccles this year, wearing a Max Hall jersey... tell me what your experience is like, and then feel free to get as preachy as you want afterwards.

BlueIsBetter, I can only imagine the horrible experiences you have had with Ute fans. I wouldn't dare discount the frustration you must have felt in those situations. In fact and to your point, I have never gone to Rice Eccles to watch Utah against BYU. I don't have any desire to be there for that game as I can enjoy it much better on TV without all of the emotional combustion. I have been to several games when Utah comes to BYU to play, but obviously that's quite a different experience. I do remember the hatred I saw towards BYU when I was a student at Utah back in the early 90s.



So it's not for me to tell you how to think and live. If I came across preachy, I apologize. That was not my intent, but I can see how it looked that way. I felt a desire to express my own learning process and leave it for others to consider it and keep or toss out as waste. But no disrespect to you for your lousy experiences with Ute fans.



Thanks for your perspective!

The problem is, I like what you are saying, but it is like telling the terrorists, "Hey, just don't bomb us. We should all love each other."



It did come across preachy, and a little senseless. It's not like I want to point the other finger, and do a "he started it" routine, but anyone that comes around saying, "Love and tolerance," are usually not the people that are under fire. They are the people that don't understand, because they haven't experienced it. I would love to live in a world that didn't have these sort of things, moreso, because that would include a world without 85% of the Ute - bandwagon fans. The few BYU home game incidents are very much outweighed by the incidents at Rice Eccles, up to and including the Whittingham family in a brawl against BYU fans, which never gets talked about. That story was reported as, "Mrs. Whitt got elbowed by a BYU fan." When in reality she got elbowed by her own son while trying to pull him off of a few BYU fans that got rushed by the whole clan of brothers.



People that say things like you did, just don't have any clue. And while I really like the CONTEXT of your discussion, and think it has a lot of merit, it was very out of context.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

The problem is, I like what you are saying, but it is like telling the terrorists, "Hey, just don't bomb us. We should all love each other."



It did come across preachy, and a little senseless. It's not like I want to point the other finger, and do a "he started it" routine, but anyone that comes around saying, "Love and tolerance," are usually not the people that are under fire. They are the people that don't understand, because they haven't experienced it. I would love to live in a world that didn't have these sort of things, moreso, because that would include a world without 85% of the Ute - bandwagon fans. The few BYU home game incidents are very much outweighed by the incidents at Rice Eccles, up to and including the Whittingham family in a brawl against BYU fans, which never gets talked about. That story was reported as, "Mrs. Whitt got elbowed by a BYU fan." When in reality she got elbowed by her own son while trying to pull him off of a few BYU fans that got rushed by the whole clan of brothers.



People that say things like you did, just don't have any clue. And while I really like the CONTEXT of your discussion, and think it has a lot of merit, it was very out of context.

For the record, let me state unequivocally that where terrorism is involved, I support an overwhelming proactive fight to the death. I am not in the military and I have not been in or near the war-zone, but I still get the fact that its evil and must be fully addressed for the sake of the allied world and our own United States of America. This kind of evil must be dealt with directly and to the full extent possible.



The subject of being sports fans doesn't compare very well with terrorism for me. Still, when I get carried away with emotions with someone else, I hope to catch myself and depart from the drama. I mess that up plenty, but my goal is still to walk away from it. When I don't, its only hurting me. I don't know if we are going to agree on this subject. What's true for you doesn't have to be for me and vice versa. This is different than universal truths that apply to all. But that's a discussion for another post.

sandiegoblue wrote:

The problem is, I like what you are saying, but it is like telling the terrorists, "Hey, just don't bomb us. We should all love each other."



It did come across preachy, and a little senseless. It's not like I want to point the other finger, and do a "he started it" routine, but anyone that comes around saying, "Love and tolerance," are usually not the people that are under fire. They are the people that don't understand, because they haven't experienced it. I would love to live in a world that didn't have these sort of things, moreso, because that would include a world without 85% of the Ute - bandwagon fans. The few BYU home game incidents are very much outweighed by the incidents at Rice Eccles, up to and including the Whittingham family in a brawl against BYU fans, which never gets talked about. That story was reported as, "Mrs. Whitt got elbowed by a BYU fan." When in reality she got elbowed by her own son while trying to pull him off of a few BYU fans that got rushed by the whole clan of brothers.



People that say things like you did, just don't have any clue. And while I really like the CONTEXT of your discussion, and think it has a lot of merit, it was very out of context.

For the record, let me state unequivocally that where terrorism is involved, I support an overwhelming proactive fight to the death. I am not in the military and I have not been in or near the war-zone, but I still get the fact that its evil and must be fully addressed for the sake of the allied world and our own United States of America. This kind of evil must be dealt with directly and to the full extent possible.



The subject of being sports fans doesn't compare very well with terrorism for me. Still, when I get carried away with emotions with someone else, I hope to catch myself and depart from the drama. I mess that up plenty, but my goal is still to walk away from it. When I don't, its only hurting me. I don't know if we are going to agree on this subject. What's true for you doesn't have to be for me and vice versa. This is different than universal truths that apply to all. But that's a discussion for another post.

You're missing the point, I wasn't doing a direct comparison of sports to terrorism. I hate the comparison of war and sports, also. Re-read if you don't get the context of the post. We don't have to agree, I honestly don't care if we do or don't. And I'm not mad, honestly, I really like the context of your letter. But I don't think that you have the experience to be saying what you are saying. So I am saying, just get out and experience that for yourself, before you tell everyone they need to start acting one way or the other.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

My hope is that with Utah in the PAC12 and BYU independent that the rivalry will mellow a little bit.



A large part of the banter was about who beat Wyoming by more points and who beat New Mexico by a bigger margin and who lost to TCU by a smaller margin :lol:



Both schools have moved on to bigger and better things and the nastiness and personal shots don't have a place in all of it.



Now Utah could be playing USC and BYU could be playing Texas in the same week and I just don't feel what we're doing and what you're doing is not so dang intertwined and subject to comparison.

I hope so... but all Utah fans aren't as level headed as you, MTM. You need to teach classes.

Kip voice; "your mom needs to teach classes".

(sorry couldn't help it)



"Stay classy(er than Utah) San Diego".-Ron



Sandiego, thanks for the reminder about keeping out cool. I know I've mellowed a lot since leaving Utah, but I was hot as anyone when I was living there. Kind of ridiculous looking back now. As far as I'm concerned Utah will forever be that "little brother" that you couldn't help but beat up once in a while, but there will always be some connection between the two schools. The rivalry really has gone overboard lately.

declocoug wrote:
[As far as I'm concerned Utah will forever be that "little brother" that you couldn't help but beat up once in a while, but there will always be some connection between the two schools. The rivalry really has gone overboard lately.

I think you've missed the last 20 years. ;)



I don't think it's a coincidence that the rivalry got more heated when Utah got better and made it a true rivalry.

you mean when Utah got better and got some fans??? ;)

declocoug wrote:
you mean when Utah got better and got some fans??? ;)

Oh snap! I laughed out LOUD on that one!!! :lol: :) :D :lol:



+ 100

BlueIsBetter wrote:



The problem is, I like what you are saying, but it is like telling the terrorists, "Hey, just don't bomb us. We should all love each other."



It did come across preachy, and a little senseless. It's not like I want to point the other finger, and do a "he started it" routine, but anyone that comes around saying, "Love and tolerance," are usually not the people that are under fire. They are the people that don't understand, because they haven't experienced it. I would love to live in a world that didn't have these sort of things, moreso, because that would include a world without 85% of the Ute - bandwagon fans. The few BYU home game incidents are very much outweighed by the incidents at Rice Eccles, up to and including the Whittingham family in a brawl against BYU fans, which never gets talked about. That story was reported as, "Mrs. Whitt got elbowed by a BYU fan." When in reality she got elbowed by her own son while trying to pull him off of a few BYU fans that got rushed by the whole clan of brothers.



People that say things like you did, just don't have any clue. And while I really like the CONTEXT of your discussion, and think it has a lot of merit, it was very out of context.

So when Jesus was preaching "Love and tolerance" was he just clueless because he was not experiencing it?



Someone can very well have a clue and be mature about it. Someone's wrong actions does not give us a right to commit wrong actions as a reaction. Consider me as someone who has a "clue" by your definition (someone who has been there and experienced it) and thinks that Sandiegoblue is on the right track. It is a sporting competition. All the emotion that gets injected into it and that carries over into everyday life is a lack of self control in my opinion. I get having a little playful fun and light banter but too many take it too far...on both sides.