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The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

by CougarClaw · 9/1/2010

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CougarClaw
I'm glad for the suspense to be over. Independence sounds like a bold, risky and profitable move. But I wanted to look at all sides. Let's be honest, this wasn't ideal for everyone involved. But this was probably the "best remaining option"



The Good:

Football scheduling better opponents incl service academies and ND (more home games?)

Football revenue quadruples at a minimum

Back on ESPN and byuTV - more exposure and more TV sets

Won't be going back to Las Vegas Bowl or Thomas and Crap center on a yearly basis.

Utes are fuming and back to their normal accusatory selves.

No more bottom feeders we don't want to schedule

We've made the WCC a very happy conference

We stuck it to the Hair and the MWC for treating us like crap.

we'll be making more money than the Utes and the entire MWC for at least the next 2-3 years with equal or greater exposure, hard to see where recruiting will be hurt by this.

Avoided a MWC $10M buyout penalty on any future Big 12 invite



The Bad

Basketball RPI is going to go way down. (WCC beat the MWC in RPI just once in the last x years)

We help the WCC other sports much more than they help us.

6/8 WCC members had average b-ball attendance of 2400 fans in 09-10. (the MC holds 22,700). Hard to believe we'll be selling out unless our OOC schedule is amazing.

Right or wrong, we've made a bunch of former friends and colleagues quite mad at us.

Independence is much more risky than a conference schedule

We'll have no more football conference championships to hang our hat on.

Tuesday & Wednesday games anyone?



The Ugly

BYU Track and Field, a perennial National Champion team, has been sacrificed to the football gods. I can't say I ever watched or attended one of these, but I loved seeing the banners hanging in the SFH.

Softball and women's swimming are homeless and also likely burned at the stake.

While unlikely, perhaps nigh impossible, MWC could achieve AQ status next year
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CannonCougar85
As far as track and field goes I do not see how this affects them at all. Their schedule will look the same minus MWC championship meets. The rest of the schedule is just invitationals. The way I see it BYU Track and Field will continue to go to invitationals and nationals.
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vancouvercougar
Good----BYU 8)



Bad----- :utard:





Ugly ----- :utard:
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Cougy_Monster
CougarClaw wrote:


Basketball RPI is going to go way down. (WCC beat the MWC in RPI just once in the last x years)



If you remove yewtah and BYU from the MWC over the last few years and add BYU to the WCC would the MWC still have a consistently higher RPI?
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BYULV
I think these other sports have been discussed previously and they are far from dead. There are options for our other sports which may end up being a better fit and better competition in the end, including softball, T&F, and swimming.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">
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craigoscarson
ESPN gets us through til the Big 12 invite comes.



Right now is not the time for negativity in Cougar Nation. We need every blue goggled fan to shout independence from the rooftops (even if you don't neccessarily mean it). This has to look like BYU just won the lottery, so act like it. (I'm not even remotely close to kidding, perception is everything now, let every recruit, every skeptic, etc. etc. etc. see that you're walking on cloud nine, and make it convincing. This will be easier to some that are already on cloud nine from this. For the rest of us, we need to get on board and do it fast)





*** I do all this assuming that the MWC never proposed a healthy and palatable concession to BYU. Like I said before, I'll be ready to eat my young and burn every last house down if the MWC truly gave in and BYU still went Indy. I just dont' think that happened. instead the MWC got called on their bluff. We were holding a full house from the beginning and all they had were rags ***
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Schmoe
Cougy_Monster wrote:


Basketball RPI is going to go way down. (WCC beat the MWC in RPI just once in the last x years)



If you remove yewtah and BYU from the MWC over the last few years and add BYU to the WCC would the MWC still have a consistently higher RPI?


I think the answer is still yes, especially because Utah hasn't contributed good numbers to the RPI for five+ years, but the margin would be much slimmer. Now both conferences will be sending 2-3 teams to the dance each year, so I don't see it making much of a difference really. That's the nice thing about a sport with an actual championship: National perception is much less important than actual talent.
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YNot
Won't BYU still likely play a bunch of MWC teams in November and December? I could see BYU still playing UNLV, New Mexico, San Diego State, and Air Force (and Fresno and Nevada...who they also played last year) on a consistent basis. I think that will tip the scale in BYU's favor.



The WCC is also a GREAT move from an alumni prospective, as BYU has tremendous alumni bases in San Diego, Los Angeles, Bay Area, Portland, and Spokane.



I went to a BYU game at U of Portland a couple of years ago, and it truly was a BYU home game. The crowd (probably 5-6K) was AT Least 75% BYU and we did all the cheers, including "B-Y-U-Cougars!" from the 4 sections of the arena. I think the WCC will probably grow tired of the fact that BYU fans will dominate their home court...
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Lawboy
You forget that the WCC is te 2nd best women's soccer league typically, behind the ACC. Jump up. Their men's soccer is also awesome, but that is less of an issue since BYU is club. Their volleyball are about as good as well. and the men's volleyball stays in the same league, so no change. Men's hoop might take a hit, but not a huge one. Those schools have smaller venues, which could affect BYU fans wanting to go to away games, but will not hurt BYU for home games at all. I also believe that the WCC has won more NCAA tourney games than the MWC over the last decade.



I think the drop in competition is not as steep as people want to believe. In some sports, yes, but not in most.
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crh55
Its true that SJSU, Idaho, NMSU, and USU added in with the service academies does not prove to be a very strong schedule, even with ND and Texas being on the schedule. I would hope we can schedule up a little more than this in years to come.
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Cougarfan87
crh55 wrote:
Its true that SJSU, Idaho, NMSU, and USU added in with the service academies does not prove to be a very strong schedule, even with ND and Texas being on the schedule. I would hope we can schedule up a little more than this in years to come.
It is going to have to be like this for the next two years because the good to great BCS schools are usually booked up two years in advance. Look for great schedules starting in 2013 (if the world hasn't ended in 2012, that is). ;)
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crh55
Good point, hopefully better teams come our way in years to come.



Does anyone know if Holmoe answered any questions regarding bowl invites and what that might look like now?
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Cougarfan87
crh55 wrote:
Good point, hopefully better teams come our way in years to come.



Does anyone know if Holmoe answered any questions regarding bowl invites and what that might look like now?


To be brokered by ESPN, but nothing specific yet.
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BoiseBYU
Schmoe wrote:
CougarClaw wrote:


Basketball RPI is going to go way down. (WCC beat the MWC in RPI just once in the last x years)



If you remove yewtah and BYU from the MWC over the last few years and add BYU to the WCC would the MWC still have a consistently higher RPI?


I think the answer is still yes, especially because Utah hasn't contributed good numbers to the RPI for five+ years, but the margin would be much slimmer. Now both conferences will be sending 2-3 teams to the dance each year, so I don't see it making much of a difference really. That's the nice thing about a sport with an actual championship: National perception is much less important than actual talent.


I think Wrubell posted something to the effect that take BYU out of MWC and add them to the WCC and the RPI for the conference is about even, with the edge to the MWC. It is close...Add BSU to the MWC and they go down even further...UNR helps the RPI, but I think FSU puts the MWC's RPI in the crapper too....
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NebraskaCoug
BTIB wrote:
http://www.staradvertiser.com/...l#axzz0yHGPojRw



Looks like WAC teams to me. Have fun with SJSU, Idaho, NMSU, and Utah State!!!


Scheduling SJSU, Idaho, NMSU, and USU hasn't seemed to hurt your Broncos. In fact, padding their schedule with these kind of automatic wins has gone a long way to create the contender they have become over time.
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tripwire
To a few of your bad points

-Conference championship

This could be a bad point but honestly, how much do you really care as a fan about this?

-Basketball RPI

I am more of a football than a basketball fan, but who cares about the RPI? BYU will be in the NCAA tourney more often than not regardless of what conference they play in.

-Tuesday and Wednesday games

Not gonna happen. ESPN has said there will be some Thursday and Friday games, but mostly Saturday.
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NebraskaCoug
craigoscarson wrote:
ESPN gets us through til the Big 12 invite comes.



Right now is not the time for negativity in Cougar Nation. We need every blue goggled fan to shout independence from the rooftops (even if you don't neccessarily mean it). This has to look like BYU just won the lottery, so act like it. (I'm not even remotely close to kidding, perception is everything now, let every recruit, every skeptic, etc. etc. etc. see that you're walking on cloud nine, and make it convincing. This will be easier to some that are already on cloud nine from this. For the rest of us, we need to get on board and do it fast)





*** I do all this assuming that the MWC never proposed a healthy and palatable concession to BYU. Like I said before, I'll be ready to eat my young and burn every last house down if the MWC truly gave in and BYU still went Indy. I just dont' think that happened. instead the MWC got called on their bluff. We were holding a full house from the beginning and all they had were rags ***


I agree with Craig on this. Perception is really important right now. I don't have any sources, inside or outside these dealings, but as a removed observer, I would say that Craig Thompson and the MWC thought they could force their will on BYU by trying to ruin their deal with the WAC rather than try to broker some kind of concessions with the MTN.



I think BYU absolutely did the best thing for itself as an institution and for the institution it represents. Bold moves like this require a lot of faith. Sure there will be setbacks, but I am very optimistic about the future of BYU and its athletic programs! I know I will probably get attacked for this, but this situation/opportunity reminds me of the Bible story in Numbers 13 when 12 Israelite spies were sent by Moses to check on the land of Canaan and its inhabitants. Ten gave a bad report and feared that the obstacles were too great. Only Joshua and Caleb gave a faith-inspired report that the land flowed with milk and honey and that they believed that Israel could overcome the inhabitants. . . . We call that land Israel even millenia later. There will definitely be risks, but I think there is a land of milk and honey out there that President Samuelson, Tom Holmoe and others have the faith to conquer!
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CougarClaw
NebraskaCoug wrote:
ESPN gets us through til the Big 12 invite comes.



Right now is not the time for negativity in Cougar Nation. We need every blue goggled fan to shout independence from the rooftops (even if you don't neccessarily mean it). This has to look like BYU just won the lottery, so act like it. (I'm not even remotely close to kidding, perception is everything now, let every recruit, every skeptic, etc. etc. etc. see that you're walking on cloud nine, and make it convincing. This will be easier to some that are already on cloud nine from this. For the rest of us, we need to get on board and do it fast)





*** I do all this assuming that the MWC never proposed a healthy and palatable concession to BYU. Like I said before, I'll be ready to eat my young and burn every last house down if the MWC truly gave in and BYU still went Indy. I just dont' think that happened. instead the MWC got called on their bluff. We were holding a full house from the beginning and all they had were rags ***


I agree with Craig on this. Perception is really important right now. I don't have any sources, inside or outside these dealings, but as a removed observer, I would say that Craig Thompson and the MWC thought they could force their will on BYU by trying to ruin their deal with the WAC rather than try to broker some kind of concessions with the MTN.



I think BYU absolutely did the best thing for itself as an institution and for the institution it represents. Bold moves like this require a lot of faith. Sure there will be setbacks, but I am very optimistic about the future of BYU and its athletic programs! I know I will probably get attacked for this, but this situation/opportunity reminds me of the Bible story in Numbers 13 when 12 Israelite spies were sent by Moses to check on the land of Canaan and its inhabitants. Ten gave a bad report and feared that the obstacles were too great. Only Joshua and Caleb gave a faith-inspired report that the land flowed with milk and honey and that they believed that Israel could overcome the inhabitants. . . . We call that land Israel even millenia later. There will definitely be risks, but I think there is a land of milk and honey out there that President Samuelson, Tom Holmoe and others have the faith to conquer!


I actually really liked the "let's be positive" perspective and it was a good reminder for me. I think I'm definitely on the glad side of the independence equation and agree 100% that it's better than staying in a lying, ungrateful, deal with anyone but the hand that feeds you, MWC.



But that doesn't mean it's all roses.



I think we will miss conference championships. Not because the individuals games or seasons were more special but because it was concrete evidence of success. We regularly paraded our 25 or whatever it was outright conference championships when we were bickering with :utard: fans on which team is superior.



and RPI matters because seeding matters. The higher our seed, the more likely we won't get paired against Texas A&M and a first round exit. Basketball took a hit and that's an unfortunate slap in the face to Dave Rose who's done marvels for our program.



And for all the anti-byu vitriol being spewed right now, can you imagine what it would have been like had we gone back?
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