Was BYU Dishonest?

Westidaho you have been...

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gmj81 wrote:
If anyone is dishonest here westidahocougar, it's you, not BYU. You are grossly misrepresenting the facts.

I know, I made this whole situation up! Ha Ha, good one.



You all have given great examples, good points. My real question from the beginning has been about BYU's honesty.



If we have been totally honest in this entire situation, than I would like to see how and where and what we have done that has been so honest IN THIS SITUATION THAT WE ARE NOW IN. Many of the situations you have described are entirely different business scenarios, whether private business or the church, etc. Good examples, but they dont fully equate to this situation.



My feeling is and will remain, if we have to ask ourselves if we are being dishonest, than we probably are. I didnt start this thread, just interjected because of my concern over the image of the church in all of this.

westidahocougar wrote:

If anyone is dishonest here westidahocougar, it's you, not BYU. You are grossly misrepresenting the facts.

I know, I made this whole situation up! Ha Ha, good one.



You all have given great examples, good points. My real question from the beginning has been about BYU's honesty.



If we have been totally honest in this entire situation, than I would like to see how and where and what we have done that has been so honest IN THIS SITUATION THAT WE ARE NOW IN. Many of the situations you have described are entirely different business scenarios, whether private business or the church, etc. Good examples, but they dont fully equate to this situation.



My feeling is and will remain, if we have to ask ourselves if we are being dishonest, than we probably are. I didnt start this thread, just interjected because of my concern over the image of the church in all of this.

Where is the "we?" Other than you, who is quesitoning whether BYU was honest? The idea that BYU was dishonest or unethical in any shape or form never occurred to me until you and a few others started "asking." And, I have read just about everything coming out about this.



Westidahocougar, if you're so concerned with the image of the church as it relates to the BYU athletic department, why continue to instigate and draw attention to the issue? What's your hope here? Are you trying to somehow create enough "talk" about this that it forces the church and BYU to make an official statement and explain themselves? What would be the point of that?



As a public relations professional, I can attest that would actually be the worst thing the church/BYU could do because like you they would suddenly be drawing attention to an issue that doesn't exist.

Yet you have failed to show where BYU was dishonest. When did BYU lie to anyone, tell a half truth, do something considered illegal or in violation of the MWC deal? Simply put, they have not. BYU worked to further its own interests, and this ruffled some feathers, But it was not dishonest, nor was it unethical.



Now did it show some disrespect to the other MWC teams? Sure, it did. BYU was looking to improve its situation, and in doing so, it may be leaving the MWC behind. But that is what Utah did in leaving the MWC for the PAC-12, what Boise State did in leaving the WAC for the MWC. No difference here at all. Those schools acted in self interest, and BYU is now acting in self interest as well. It is hypocritical to lambast 1 and not the others. And it is foolishness to criticize any of those moves, because they all make perfect sense for the institution involved. And I have yet to hear you write Boise State was dishonest and selfish and did anything wrong for leaving the WAC. So be consistently logical in your arguments or don't bring them, or else you are the one being intellectually dishonest.

If westidahocougar's definition of dishonesty is correct, I propose the following revisions to the Book of Mormon:



1 Nephi 4:19-23

19 And after I had smitten off his head with his own sword, I took the garments of Laban and put them upon mine own body; yea, even every whit; and I did gird on his armor about my loins washed and folded them neatly, for they were full of blood.

20 And after I had done this, I went forth unto the treasury of Laban. And as I went forth towards the treasury of Laban, behold, I saw the servant of Laban who had the keys of the treasury. And I commanded him in the voice of Laban, that he should go with me into the treasury. asked him nicely if he would go with me into the treasury, in spite of the fact that I had just killed his master, Laban, who also regarded my brethren and I as robbers.

21 And he supposed me to be his master, Laban, for he beheld the garments and also the sword girded about my loins. to be a good and honest man, because of my exceeding honesty, according to the words of westidahocougar.

22 And he spake unto me concerning the elders of the Jews, he knowing that his master, Laban, had been out by night among them.

23 And I spake unto him as if it had been Laban freely admitted that I had no clue what he was talking about.



Alma 43:30

And he also knowing that it was the only desire of the Nephites to preserve their lands, and their liberty, and their church, therefore he thought it no sin that he should defend them by stratagem; therefore, he found by his spies which course the Lamanites were to take however, being compelled by the wisdom of westidahocougar, he did send forth messengers unto the Lamanites, to ask them which course the Lamanites were to take, and to warn them of the coming ambush.



Alma 56:30

Now when we saw that the Lamanites began to grow uneasy on this wise, we were desirous to bring a stratagem into effect upon them; therefore Antipus ordered that I should march forth with my little sons to a neighboring city, as if we were carrying provisions to a neighboring city. However, suffering under the guilt of westidahocougar's piety, he did also send forth messengers unto the Lamanites, to let them know that my true intention was to lead them out of the city.



There may be more - maybe you guys can help me find them? Also, I need a new hero, because two of mine (Nephi and Captain Moroni) have turned out to be real douchey and dishonest, after reexamining them with this further light and knowledge from westidahocougar.

ABYUFAN wrote:

Rather than personally attack me, making fun, poking at my business knowledge, using justifications, etc., etc., why dont you all counter my arguments of dishonesty with arguments to how BYU has been forthright and honest in all these dealings?

What you call "personally attacking you", others would call "questioning your unsubstantiated definition of honesty". If you get to define "dishonesty" any old way you choose, then you'll be able to call anyone you want dishonest. If you are forced to use an objective standard of honesty, then you'll not be able to do so. However, when being forced to use an objective standard for defining honesty (or, "dishonesty") you call it a personal attack. Simply put, you don't want an answer to your question, what you want is acquiescence.

So true it needed to be quoted.