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Ranking the non BCS coaches

by scott715 · 7/2/2010

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scott715
http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1099074


7. Bronco Mendenhall, BYU

Mendenhall, 44, has led the Cougars to at least 10 wins in each of the past four seasons. And BYU is the only school from a non-Big Six league to be ranked in the final polls and the final BCS standings in each of the past four seasons, as the Cougars have gone 43-9 in that span under Mendenhall. The only thing missing: a BCS bid.


Half of the conference made the top 15 and we took the top 3 slots. Looking at future expansion Houston took #4 and SMU #5
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CannonCougar85
I can understand KWhit, Peterson and Paterson being in the top 3 ahead of Bronco. They have BCS appearances. But I do not understand the next 3.



Kevin Sumlin went 10-4 last year but he went 8-5 the previous 2 years. They beat 3 BCS schools in 09 but they also lost to UTEP, Air Force, UCF and East Carolina.



June Jones is hotter then Bronco because he took SMU to their first bowl game since 84 at 8-5?



Pat Hill- The last 4 seasons. 8-5, 7-6, 9-4, 4-8. Fresno lost to Wyoming in their bowl game. Wyoming. And they haven't won the WAC since 99. That makes him hotter then Bronco?



Bronco Mendenhall- 10+ wins in each of the last 4 seasons playing in a conference consisting of 2 BCS bowl teams and 2 of the top 3 coaches on this list. 11-2 last year. Of the 2 losses last season one was to a "Big 6" school and the other was to a BCS Bowl team. The only knock on Bronco is he hasn't been to a BCS bowl game? THE 3 COACHES AHEAD OF HIM HAVEN'T EITHER!!!! So if that is "the only thing missing" then how in the yewt is he behind those 3?



This list is a joke. Way to make a fool of yourself Tom Dienhart.
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Cougarbib
June Jones did take Hawaii to the Sugar Bowl for a butt kicking by Georgia. He has since turned SMU from an 0-11 or 1-11 team to a winning team in 2nd season. He turned around Hawaii too. He had an impressive resume before UH.



They may have forgotten that Bronco turned around a sinking ship at BYU and didn't take long at all to get BYU to the 4 ranked seasons. Maybe they think BYU is so good that it sin't because of Bronco's coaching.



Bib
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imuakahuku
So Kwitt is better than Bronco? Right off the top you can see the list is suspect.
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SpiffCoug
KWhitt is coach at a BCS school now. Of course he's better.
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imuakahuku
kitic77 wrote:
KWhitt is coach at a BCS school now. Of course he's better.


LOL
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Brayden Green
Kwhitt IS a better coach than Bronco, in gameday situations and preparing (better strategist). Bronco is much better at personnel, and planning (recruiting etc). Put them together, you would have the perfect coach. But as far as planning for the team you are playing against and making gameday and half-time adjustments, I take Kwhitt and co. (which is why they are all coaches somewhere else, now. they have talent) That being said, I am happy with Bronco. He is doing an unbelievable job. I wish his position coaches were better, (Anae, etc.) But the list should go Gary Paterson, Kwhitt, and then Bronco. Kwhitt does a lot more with less talent compared with our recruiting year to year, we consistently get better players.
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Cougarbib
BYU gets a lot different type of player than Utah in many cases, but I am not sure if they get better players - at least any real separation. How do you judge? Both schools put players in the NFL - not at the pace of an Oklahoma - but they put them there. Utah gets more speed. BYU gets more disciplined and maybe smarter players in many cases. Neithe of them pulls in many 5* recruits. We will have to see if Utah's new platform enables them to change that.



I know at least one parent of an in-state player that thinks Utah just bypasses the local recruits other than relatives of the coaching staff. BYU recruits heavily in Utah. That is a difference - but I don't know that it is that Utah can't compete in-state and just gave up or they just prefer bigger faster guys from Texas and California.



You gotta give KWItt some props. He wins bowl games like no other. For a BYU head coach - he would be OK - but I prefer bronco. FOr a Utah coach - KW is a better fit than Bronco.



I graduated from both schools and think Bronco is great for BYU and KWhitt was great for what Utah could expect as a stepping stone job. Now we will see if Utah can change its status as a stepping stone job. BYU changed that status with Lavell Edwards. Utah may have changed it with KWhitt. By the way - I didn't see anyone tripping over themselves trying to steal either of these guys. BYU coaches hav elong been underpaid. Hopefully fans will continue to appreciate Bronco and hopefully he will stay - or BYU could become a stepping stone program again.
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Mars
Cougarbib2 wrote:
BYU coaches hav elong been underpaid. Hopefully fans will continue to appreciate Bronco and hopefully he will stay - or BYU could become a stepping stone program again.

Yeah, like when Lavell Edwards left BYU for Miami...
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CougarClaw
imuakahuku wrote:
KWhitt is coach at a BCS school now. Of course he's better.


LOL


funny, but why is Kwhitt even on this list? haven't they 'graduated' yet?
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Lawboy
That Utah defense had like 8 guys drafted in the NFL the last 2 years. We are not close to that by a mile. Maybe 1 on defense? And on offense, Utah also had as many. Sorry, but our NFL caliber talent has been low the last 5 years.



Having said that, this is about to change. I think it speaks more to the great coaching Bronco and staff did than anything. He recruited character first in his first several years, talent second. He had to get a culture in place and sacrificed some talent early to get it. Now, he has the culture in place and is going after the talent. And it is coming to Provo. We are going to be really good the next few years. Then people will see just how good our coaching staff is. They know how to win and get players ready to play.
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Cougarbib
As often is the case, MARS, I don;t get your point about Lavell. I said BYU is NOT a stepping stone program and although I didn't spell it out, Lavell, staying all those years while being underpaid and not even considering the other offers he could have gotten is the proof of that in that timeframe. When Lavell left, though, all the young punks assumed Andy Reid would leave his NFL job to come back to Provo. They made numerous other assumptions, and in the end, we got Gary Crowton who was stepping up the stones from LA Tech to BYU. He might have stayed forever. Many are glad he did not. But he was a reversion to the Tom Hudspeths and others that preceded Lavell and didn't deliver and were eventually replaced. When Crowton was let go - everyone assumed we could pick and choose again fro th eelite of LDS coaches. Then we picked KWhitt. Then KWitt turned us down. Ouch! Then we almost promoted Coach Reynolds but switched it up and took Bronco. A lot of fans grumbled about that. I did not. I never wanted KWhitt at BYU and still prefer Bronco at BYU.



Bronco delivered and exceeded most people's expectations. Let's all appreciate and honor him.



Bronco seems to be one who will stay. That is why I pointed out that fans should appreciate him. When the vocal minority of fans turned on Lavell and Norm, Lavell got Norm a job at NC Staye and then retired early imho.



Bib
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Brayden Green
Lawboy wrote:
That Utah defense had like 8 guys drafted in the NFL the last 2 years. We are not close to that by a mile. Maybe 1 on defense? And on offense, Utah also had as many. Sorry, but our NFL caliber talent has been low the last 5 years.



Having said that, this is about to change. I think it speaks more to the great coaching Bronco and staff did than anything. He recruited character first in his first several years, talent second. He had to get a culture in place and sacrificed some talent early to get it. Now, he has the culture in place and is going after the talent. And it is coming to Provo. We are going to be really good the next few years. Then people will see just how good our coaching staff is. They know how to win and get players ready to play.




That's exactly my point, and I agree completely with your post. The Utes had a ton of people drafted, with worse recruiting seasons. (A lot of those guys won't make their teams, though.) And it's no co-incidence that the Crowton years graduating class would have all come in within the last 5 years. I mean, BYU NFL talent vs. Utah NFL talent isn't even close. I'm not diminishing Bronco, or the job that he is doing, which is a phenomenal job. Just saying that Kwhitt does more with less, and that is because he (and his now depleted staff) are better at X's and O's on the field. How much of that is the staff? That remains to be seen now that the Utes pretty much don't have anyone left on their staff. But seriously, in the last 15 years we have consistently gotten better talent. I will give Utah a one or two year advantage after the crowton years debacle, but they didn't shoot to the head of the class, they leveled off with us. Seriously, as the only LDS school that is very lenient on mission plans, we have a huge recruiting advantage over any other school. It also helps that we have solid coaching and a great legacy. Now let's not do a "missions hurt your body" thread, because you are preaching to the choir. (I had D-1 interest pre-mission, and went to a 3rd world country and got sick and lost the opportunity, so I get it, trust me.)
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Lawboy
BlueIsBetter wrote:

Just saying that Kwhitt does more with less, and that is because he (and his now depleted staff) are better at X's and O's on the field. How much of that is the staff? That remains to be seen now that the Utes pretty much don't have anyone left on their staff. But seriously, in the last 15 years we have consistently gotten better talent.


And this is where I disagree. Based upon players drafted in the NFL and invited to camps as a free agents, Utah has actually had the better talent than BYU, and yet we have won 3 out of 4. And when I say Utah had 8 players drafted, that is what I meant, they also had 2 0thers invited to camp as free agents. That is an awesome total for a D in a 2 year period. So to me, it is Bronco doing more with less. We beat that NFL caliber talent 3 out of 4. Bronco is more steady, more consistent. Utah has had 1 great year under Whit, and every other year BYU was better. I want that great year as well, that BCS bid, and it will come. But when we play tougher opponents every year than Utah, it makes it tougher. Review the 2004 Ute schedule and they payed basically no one. We stunk it up that year. UNC was crap. So was Pitt, etc. 2008 they hit it lucky with any tough games at home, and they still barely pulled it out v. TCU and OSU--missed field goals. Loads of Luck helped them that year, and they took advanage of it. We have yet to take advantage of our luck. should have in 2006, that team was awesome. look back on losses and we should have been undefeated that year--easily, but weren't. It really is a fine line here, and Utah was on the right side of it in 2008, while we have been on the wrong side many times.
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CannonCougar85
BlueIsBetter wrote:

That's exactly my point, and I agree completely with your post. The Utes had a ton of people drafted, with worse recruiting seasons. (A lot of those guys won't make their teams, though.) And it's no co-incidence that the Crowton years graduating class would have all come in within the last 5 years. I mean, BYU NFL talent vs. Utah NFL talent isn't even close. I'm not diminishing Bronco, or the job that he is doing, which is a phenomenal job. Just saying that Kwhitt does more with less, and that is because he (and his now depleted staff) are better at X's and O's on the field. How much of that is the staff? That remains to be seen now that the Utes pretty much don't have anyone left on their staff. But seriously, in the last 15 years we have consistently gotten better talent. I will give Utah a one or two year advantage after the crowton years debacle, but they didn't shoot to the head of the class, they leveled off with us. Seriously, as the only LDS school that is very lenient on mission plans, we have a huge recruiting advantage over any other school. It also helps that we have solid coaching and a great legacy. Now let's not do a "missions hurt your body" thread, because you are preaching to the choir. (I had D-1 interest pre-mission, and went to a 3rd world country and got sick and lost the opportunity, so I get it, trust me.)


I can see your reasoning that BYU consistently gets better recruits then Utah which they have done for a long time. And that usually equates to better performance on the field. If BYU doesn't win the title they are usually 2nd for example. And based off of recruits Utah does more with less.

But you can make the same argument at the other end as well. If Kwhit has more players getting drafted then that means Kwhit has more NFL-Caliber talent on his team. Whether those players make an NFL team or not is irrelevant, they are at least good enough to get drafted. So if Utah has more NFL caliber talent then logically they should be dominating BYU/MWC every year. But that clearly isn't the case.



Kwhit has won the conference championship once and Bronco has won it twice.



To me that equates to Bronco doing more with less and Kwhit doing less with more.



So it all depends on how you choose to view it.
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Brayden Green
Lawboy wrote:

Just saying that Kwhitt does more with less, and that is because he (and his now depleted staff) are better at X's and O's on the field. How much of that is the staff? That remains to be seen now that the Utes pretty much don't have anyone left on their staff. But seriously, in the last 15 years we have consistently gotten better talent.


And this is where I disagree. Based upon players drafted in the NFL and invited to camps as a free agents, Utah has actually had the better talent than BYU, and yet we have won 3 out of 4. And when I say Utah had 8 players drafted, that is what I meant, they also had 2 0thers invited to camp as free agents. That is an awesome total for a D in a 2 year period. So to me, it is Bronco doing more with less. We beat that NFL caliber talent 3 out of 4. Bronco is more steady, more consistent. Utah has had 1 great year under Whit, and every other year BYU was better. I want that great year as well, that BCS bid, and it will come. But when we play tougher opponents every year than Utah, it makes it tougher. Review the 2004 Ute schedule and they payed basically no one. We stunk it up that year. UNC was crap. So was Pitt, etc. 2008 they hit it lucky with any tough games at home, and they still barely pulled it out v. TCU and OSU--missed field goals. Loads of Luck helped them that year, and they took advanage of it. We have yet to take advantage of our luck. should have in 2006, that team was awesome. look back on losses and we should have been undefeated that year--easily, but weren't. It really is a fine line here, and Utah was on the right side of it in 2008, while we have been on the wrong side many times.


Again, we aren't disagreeing on anything except for who is doing more with less. You understand that there is a difference in getting better recruiting classes, and having a better draft class, don't you? And besides, a lot of the players at BYU go on missions, so you can't compare this years BYU class with Utah's class, you would have to compare players from each class head to head. That is an impossible task even without missions, because you have redshirts, the occasional gray shirt, transfers, so to compare each class body for body would be impossible to do unless you are super brilliant and have absolutely no time, especially when you throw the whole mission curveball in there, and the fact that we have been "stealing other peoples recruits in the mission field." ;) If anything, you have to compare the Utes class, to the next couple BYU classes, and that gives you kind of an idea. 1 Ute class = about 3 different BYU classes. It is frustating to not be able to track it and show those rankings to potential recruits, and Utards in general.



And the last few years (call it five) are from the Crowton Era, and as you so expertly put, Bronco had to spend a lot of time to clean house. So I can budge a little saying that we haven't been absolutely bowling over in recruiting against Utah like we normally do (except for the last 3 years, we started really picking it up again, and are consistently blowing them out year after year). We struggled, right when Utah was rolling for a couple years. That hurt us on a national level, BIG TIME.



But if your only basis for who gets better recruits is NFL caliber, it isn't even close. As of 2008, BYU has produced 146 professional football players—its alumni totaling 48 NFL Super Bowl rings which has actually gone up with 3 on the steelers a couple years ago. (BYU sports page) That isn't people drafted, or invited to camps, that is OFFICIAL, MADE THE TEAM, play on Sundays football players. That is another thing, too. There are BYU players that don't go to the NFL, because they don't want to play on Sundays (I both laud them for their faith, and think they are stupid for turning down REDICULOUS paychecks that they couldn't get anywhere else.) I don't blame Bronco, I think it is his staff. Bronco is great at personnel, and has built a solid ground for BYU for the next 10 years. But that doesn't take away from the fact that Kwhitt and his staff have been great at X's and O's, and that has been the only thing that has saved them the last few years (though it won't be enough in the Pac ... Mwahahaha!) And Whitt is STILL a classless Ute that onsides when up by 50 against a torrid Wyoming team. May he rot in :utard: !
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jonnylingo
BlueIsBetter wrote:
Kwhitt IS a better coach than Bronco, in gameday situations and preparing (better strategist). Bronco is much better at personnel, and planning (recruiting etc). Put them together, you would have the perfect coach. But as far as planning for the team you are playing against and making gameday and half-time adjustments, I take Kwhitt and co. (which is why they are all coaches somewhere else, now. they have talent) That being said, I am happy with Bronco. He is doing an unbelievable job. I wish his position coaches were better, (Anae, etc.) But the list should go Gary Paterson, Kwhitt, and then Bronco. Kwhitt does a lot more with less talent compared with our recruiting year to year, we consistently get better players.


Agreed.
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CougarClaw
Lawboy wrote:
Based upon players drafted in the NFL and invited to camps as a free agents, Utah has actually had the better talent than BYU, and yet we have won 3 out of 4.


After watching World Cup soccer where the difference between winning and losing is 5 seconds or a referee whistle, team parity has never been smaller.



While yes, we've won 3/4 and they were amazing games, they were also very CLOSE games including several miraculous, once-in-a-lifetime victories. Utah might just as easily be touting their 4 game winning streak at this point. Didn't happen, but have to give credit especially when they'll probably be favored to beat us this year.
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MTM
On the subject of both coaches I think most agree that Utah's shutout loss to UNLV was the low point of Kyle's head coaching career. I've heard him say that was a slap in the face and galvanized his resolve and I just calculated that Utah has, indeed, gone 31-4 since that game. He was 16-13 after that game.



I'm guessing the loss to Tulsa was Bronco's "worst" loss and, you guessed it, he's 31-5 since then. He was 18-10 through that game.



I admire Bronco for the long term plan he has in place and the way he seems to be executing it. His cupboard was certainly more bare than what Kyle inherited. There was even a time when I envied BYU for having him.



Kyle has turned around whatever deficiencies he had when he took over but I think I'd take either one as my head coach.



Incidentally, I have not confirmed this but I read that SDSU has more players in the NFL than any other MWC school. Just checked and this is a year old but-



http://www.themwc.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/091208aaf.html
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frdbtr
Yes, BYU has had better recruiting classes then Utah since Bronco has taken over. They also had very good recruiting classes during the Crowton years. Having said that, Most of Crowton's recruits never played a down at BYU due to transfers and suspensions. We had 4 defensive guys thrown off the team in 2004 as soon as they got to school in the summer. We had about 5 more guys transfer during the coaching change. Bronco has been working from walk-ons on the defensive side for the last 5 years. Now I love Ben Criddle but he would not have played on any other roster in this conference. BYU's defense has been designed to hide the deficiencies in the secondary up until now. There isn't any comparison (in my mind) on who has done more with less when you talk about BYU vs utah; it is Bronco hands down. Just wait and see what Bronco and Co. will be able to do with actual D1 recruits in the secondary instead of a bunch of walk ons.
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